Gutekunst vs Thompson

[GleefulGary]

Comparing the two is like comparing a bag of Doritos to a bag of Cornchips lmao.

Both are good?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The notion that Gutekunst is as extreme as TT in terms of being anti-FA should have been dispelled last offseason. However, people will often ignore the evidence if doing so gives them a chance to **** and moan.

I have to say, Gute is trending almost too far in the opposite direction for my liking. I definitely love both the Smith's and Amos. I was calling for them to sign one of the former as well as the latter all offseason. However, they have really mortgaged the future with these moves in order to sign BOTH of the edge players, plus Billy Turner.

If these moved as a collection don't pan out, it's really going to hurt.

We don't have numbers for Za'Darius yet, but here are the collective cap hits of Preston Smith, Adrian Amos, and Billy Turner:

2019: 16M
2020: 30M
2021: 34M
2022: 35M

So the impact doesn't feel huge right now, but that's because of all of the back-loading. They are giving up flexibility in the future for more impact in the present. If 2-3 of the acquisitions are big hits, it should pay off. But if that doesn't happen, these contracts will collectively be a millstone around the team's neck until 2022 when the dead money becomes a small enough issue that they can be released.

On the other hand, the cap will continue to rise and the Packers don't have too many in-house candidates to extend in the coming seasons. I also resonate with the desire to load up on young, impact players while Rodgers is still playing. But it's a high risk, high reward strategy. I definitely prefer it to doing nothing, but it's trending towards the other extreme.

I view this as a butterfly effect from TT's poor drafting for too many years. Gute got stuck with too many players that couldn't be developed and a few too many failed big contracts. So with only one draft year under his belt, Gute had to decide if he was going to try and rebuild through his own drafts or infuse the team with some decent FA signings. IMO, it appears he is doing a combination of the 2, with maybe a heavy play in Free Agency this year based on need. Something I don't think he expected would be so high until his first year played out.

Also, while some will view the 4 FA's signed yesterday as a risk, aren't pretty much all FA's a risk? I view these guys as a pretty safe risk given their past track record and the inside information we had on the 2 Smiths. Maybe Gute had to pay more than we expected, but I like the signings, young guys in their second contracts.

As long as his drafts are more successful than TT's last 5 or so, all is well in Green Bay.

 

[texaspackerbacker]

Finally some serious upgrading for the years we still have Aaron Rodgers. The difference between draft and develop and signing guys like this is although there is never a sure thing, there is a helluva lot better chance that players who have excelled before in the NFL will excel than untested rookies.

 

[gopkrs]

I think one thing Gute is counting on is Pettine. He showed some ability to get his players after the QB with a lot less talent last year. So I am hoping he can continue to work some magic. And it would sure be nice if Burks turned into a player.

 

[PackAttack12]

I love the idea of plugging serious holes in free agency with young, yet pretty much proven veteran players still on the rise. Thompson would have looked for much of these needs in the draft.

The Packers will still be looking at positions of weakness in the draft, but with edge, safety, and OL being addressed in some fashion via free agency, it allows the Packers to be so much more flexible come draft time.

The jury is obviously still out, but this has the potential to pay huge dividends. The Packers have 4 starters among the 22 now that they didn't have two days ago. That's a great start.

 

[Mondio]

People just don't get that there are more than 1 way to do things. Neither is "better" neither is more effective, worse etc based on philosophy. Ted's approach worked pretty well for a lot of years until some big injuries took out playmakers and the drafts didn't find them for a couple seasons in a row. This roster was in need of work. There are a couple ways to fill it. I like what they've done, but for the same reasons, it might not work. We might not have manueverability to move on from someone when we need to. Someone might get hurt. Someone might just not fit and instead of a 400K draft pick they're a 9 million dollar a year investment. Neither is perfect.

Thousand roads to Rome. Both men have(had) their plans and are going to likely stick to it. I think both were good at what they do. Gute isn't proven yet, but I'd say I like what he's done and most of it makes a lot of sense. He's worked draft, trades and FA pretty well IMO. Now we have to make it work on the field. It's more exciting that's for sure, but the only way it will be "better" is if they make it work on the field.

 

[Dantés]

I view this as a butterfly effect from TT's poor drafting for too many years. Gute got stuck with too many players that couldn't be developed and a few too many failed big contracts. So with only one draft year under his belt, Gute had to decide if he was going to try and rebuild through his own drafts or infuse the team with some decent FA signings. IMO, it appears he is doing a combination of the 2, with maybe a heavy play in Free Agency this year based on need. Something I don't think he expected would be so high until his first year played out.

Also, while some will view the 4 FA's signed yesterday as a risk, aren't pretty much all FA's a risk? I view these guys as a pretty safe risk given their past track record and the inside information we had on the 2 Smiths. Maybe Gute had to pay more than we expected, but I like the signings, young guys in their second contracts.

As long as his drafts are more successful than TT's last 5 or so, all is well in Green Bay.

It certainly is effected by the poor drafting of TT's last seasons and all FA's are of course a risk. But backloading this much money into the future is a unique risk on top of the norm. If you front load a deal, and it flops, you can get out of it sooner and with less penalty. If you backload it, you're married to it for longer, whether it works or not.

 

[rodell330]

Both are good?

Well I beg to differ...but that depends on what your preference is. But I’m positive 90% of the posters on this forum are taking Doritos over Cornchips/Fritos. There is really no flavor in a Frito...that was Ted Thompson.

 

[GleefulGary]

Well I beg to differ...but that depends on what your preference is. But I’m positive 90% of the posters on this forum are taking Doritos over Cornchips/Fritos. There is really no flavor in a Frito...that was Ted Thompson.

Is winning a Super Bowl not good?

I understand the frustrations of the last few years. But overall, TT was still a very good GM compared to most of his counterparts.

Perhaps we should wait for Gute to win a SB before we say he's better than ol Ted. More exciting? Certainly. Better? We don't know.

 

[GleefulGary]

Also, I would take Fritos over Doritos every day. Love Fritos. Don't like the sticky doritos that messes up my fingers.

 

[PackAttack12]

Is winning a Super Bowl not good?

I understand the frustrations of the last few years. But overall, TT was still a very good GM compared to most of his counterparts.

Perhaps we should wait for Gute to win a SB before we say he's better than ol Ted. More exciting? Certainly. Better? We don't know.

I'll take Gutekunst's team building strategy over what Thompson produced post-2014 in his off seasons. You got me on pre-2014. Not issues with Teddy there.

Also, I would take Fritos over Doritos every day. Love Fritos. Don't like the sticky doritos that messes up my fingers.

I can't get with you on this one. Only time I like Fritos is in a chili pie. Doritos all day long.

 

[rmontro]

Well I beg to differ...but that depends on what your preference is. But I’m positive 90% of the posters on this forum are taking Doritos over Cornchips/Fritos. There is really no flavor in a Frito...that was Ted Thompson.

You know, I don't care what you say about Ted Thompson. But I'm not going to sit here and listen to you insult Fritos.

 

[hallzi43]

Certainly a few ways to skin a cat. Ted Thompson was brought in because Sherman put us in cap hell by signing anyone and everyone on the market and backloading their deals because we wanted to take care of Brett Favre's before we lost him. Ted did well drafting Rodgers and a young core around him and his philosophy was to keep our own and that worked well for a long time. Now Rodgers is on the other side of 30 and the feel of urgency is getting bigger. We needed to interject more youth but not rookie youth and Gute has done a nice job on both ends of that spectrum thus far.

 

[brandon2348]

The notion that Gutekunst is as extreme as TT in terms of being anti-FA should have been dispelled last offseason. However, people will often ignore the evidence if doing so gives them a chance to **** and moan.

I have to say, Gute is trending almost too far in the opposite direction for my liking. I definitely love both the Smith's and Amos. I was calling for them to sign one of the former as well as the latter all offseason. However, they have really mortgaged the future with these moves in order to sign BOTH of the edge players, plus Billy Turner.

If these moved as a collection don't pan out, it's really going to hurt.

We don't have numbers for Za'Darius yet, but here are the collective cap hits of Preston Smith, Adrian Amos, and Billy Turner:

2019: 23.5M
2020: 47.25M
2021: 54.75M
2022: 55.75M

So the impact doesn't feel huge right now, but that's because of all of the back-loading. They are giving up flexibility in the future for more impact in the present. If 2-3 of the acquisitions are big hits, it should pay off. But if that doesn't happen, these contracts will collectively be a millstone around the team's neck until 2022 when the dead money becomes a small enough issue that they can be released.

On the other hand, the cap will continue to rise and the Packers don't have too many in-house candidates to extend in the coming seasons. I also resonate with the desire to load up on young, impact players while Rodgers is still playing. But it's a high risk, high reward strategy. I definitely prefer it to doing nothing, but it's trending towards the other extreme.

EDIT: Updated the numbers to include Za'Darius Smith.

Nice EXIT STRATEGY from YOUR GUY's when the chaos starts.

I'm saving this one.

 

[gbgary]

reaction after today's presser: the more i see/hear gute...the more i like him. his lip-smacking/kissing thing is kind of distracting but not as much as mlf's eyebrows.

 

[Dblbogey]

Well I beg to differ...but that depends on what your preference is. But I’m positive 90% of the posters on this forum are taking Doritos over Cornchips/Fritos. There is really no flavor in a Frito...that was Ted Thompson.

I prefer Fritos, and I'm 90% positive of that.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Don't get me wrong, it's not better, it's not worse...it's all we've got and it'll play out, but all we can do is watch for now. I'm not a fantasy footballer and really am not familiar with what these guys have done.

People do forget that drafting isn't the only thing you can swing and miss on. All means of roster acquisition can be big time home runs or swings and misses whether they're draft picks, FA picks or trades.

I think people wrongfully assumed that TT not being out of 1265 meant he was just being switched titles but having the same authority. It should have been obvious when he went after guys like Graham or Breeland, not great moves but different than TT that TT was not running the show any more.

 

[El Guapo]

You guys are arguing about draft vs FA strategies, which is like arguing about whether you like the frilly top or the rhinestone top on the stripper. PackerfaninCarolina nailed it. The key is drafting the right guys and bringing in the right free agents. Ted's strategy was fine but his execution became atrocious in his later years - possibly due to his best personnel guys bolting to other teams. Mike Sherman drafted poorly AND spent boatloads of Packers fans money on useless free agents. Does anyone remember Joe Johnson? Nope. A smart GM uses a good blend of both drafting and free agency, hopefully leaning towards whichever area is their strength.

Bottom line - get the right guys no matter how they get in the door: draft, free agency, UDFAs, taxi squad, camp bodies, etc...

 

[Do7]

Well I beg to differ...but that depends on what your preference is. But I’m positive 90% of the posters on this forum are taking Doritos over Cornchips/Fritos. There is really no flavor in a Frito...that was Ted Thompson.

I happen to like both Doritos and Fritos.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Does anyone remember Joe Johnson? Nope.

Unfortunately, I do. He is our Tony Mandarich of Free Agency! Has to be the biggest Packer Free Agent bust of all time. I remember getting so excited about signing him and then seeing him play and wondering WTF Sherman saw in him.

He is kind of my mental cautionary tale of not getting too excited about a Free Agent, until he actually plays for the Packers and plays well.

Keeping my fingers crossed that Jimmy G. isn't getting ready to nudge JJ off the Top Packer Free agent bust list.

 

[TEXPAC]

He’s the MAN!!!!

 

[mradtke66]

Unfortunately, I do. He is our Tony Mandarich of Free Agency! Has to be the biggest Packer Free Agent bust of all time. I remember getting so excited about signing him and then seeing him play and wondering WTF Sherman saw in him.

He is kind of my mental cautionary tale of not getting too excited about a Free Agent, until he actually plays for the Packers and plays well.

Keeping my fingers crossed that Jimmy G. isn't getting ready to nudge JJ off the Top Packer Free agent bust list.

So, we got actual production from Jimmy. Maybe we overpaid for what we got (TBD), but he finished what, with the second highest receiving yards in a season by a Packers TE?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So, we got actual production from Jimmy. Maybe we overpaid for what we got (TBD), but he finished what, with the second highest receiving yards in a season by a Packers TE?

Don't get me wrong by that previous post, because I like Jimmy G, but I think he fell pretty short of expectations last season. Hoping for a better 2019, so he isn't remembered as one of the bigger FA busts.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Don't get me wrong by that previous post, because I like Jimmy G, but I think he fell pretty short of expectations last season. Hoping for a better 2019, so he isn't remembered as one of the bigger FA busts.

I think Terry Glenn would top that list so far, and I'd probably even stick Bennett as still one upping Graham as far as TE FA bust.


All that to say the chapter still has yet to be written on Gute to either be a fan or a detractor. And MLF is center stage for now taking some heat off of him. But I think this will be the year that'll be revealing of how he's going to structure the team and if it's got the right personnel in place to get Rodgers one last run at the SB before the curtain closes. Thompson's cumulative bad years were enough to let him off the hook last year, but that won't be an excuse this year and next year.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think we’ve only just begun with Gutes Graham move. 2019 will be the true test. Hopefully with an improved O line and a healthier start at QB early in the season.
I think LaFleur will play to our strengths and get Graham more involved in the RedZone and into a semi good year (last year being C- grade for his ability) putting up 850+/8 TDs (give or take) buys him another season.