Gary's Role

[RRyder]

he's simply not going to get the snaps with the smith's being as dominant as they are. he's taking snaps from fackrell. it's no big deal.

Not really. He's playing mostly on the line

Gary's snap count has been pretty consistent all year. The point that our #12 overall pick cant get on the field for more then 15 snaps a game is concerning (for reference BJ Goodson has played a higher percentage of snaps this year)

 

[GleefulGary]

Not really. He's playing mostly on the line

Gary's snap count has been pretty consistent all year. The point that our #12 overall pick cant get on the field for more then 15 snaps a game is concerning (for reference BJ Goodson has played a higher percentage of snaps this year)

He's producing quite well when he plays. I think he's getting a pressure every 9 snaps or so.

 

[longtimefan]

He's producing quite well when he plays. I think he's getting a pressure every 9 snaps or so.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/bring...ff-347?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

According to Pro Football Focus, from week 6 to week 10, Gary was the Packers' most improved defensive player as his overall grade jumped 27.3 points during that span.


Against Washington, Chicago, and Minnesota, Gary has recorded five total pressures, with one sack and eight total tackles, two of which have been for a loss. He also put together the best game of his short career when facing the Bears as he totaled three tackles, one of which was for a loss, along with a sack. Oh, and did I mention that he did all of that with just 46 total defensive snaps over the last three games?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

he's simply not going to get the snaps with the smith's being as dominant as they are. he's taking snaps from fackrell. it's no big deal.

It's a big deal because of the way this season has played out having used the 12th overall pick on a different player than the fourth edge rusher on the depth chart might have significantly improved the Packers chances of winning the Super Bowl.

He's producing quite well when he plays. I think he's getting a pressure every 9 snaps or so.

First of all the number isn't true for the season and secondly Gary hardly plays.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Both Preston and Z Smith play a very high proportion of total snaps and could certainly use more rest. The fact that Gary isn't being used much, despite the fact that both Smiths play such a high proportion of plays, shows that the coaching staff doesn't think Gary is ready for prime time.

 

[swhitset]

Both Preston and Z Smith play a very high proportion of total snaps and could certainly use more rest. The fact that Gary isn't being used much, despite the fact that both Smiths play such a high proportion of plays, shows that the coaching staff doesn't think Gary is ready for prime time.

You don’t take your best players off the field unless you have to. Gary is getting some snaps ... hopefully he will get more. I don’t know how Gary’s progression will go, but the assumption you made is biased.

 

[Sanguine camper]

For the 12th pick in the draft Gary's production and reps have been anemic. The relationship between the two is sort of like the chicken and egg question, but the fact is he isn't getting on the field much. While you don't want to take your best players off the field, for pass rushers, there's an optimal number of snaps where production goes up with extra rest to a certain point and then declines. If Gary was making more of an impact he would get more plays and the Smiths would benefit too. They can't go full out on every play for 16 weeks. While Z is dominant, Preston Smith has slowed down the past 4 weeks. Could be, he's a bit gassed.

 

[HardRightEdge]

A cursory examination of draft history shows that with the rare exceptions of top 5 edge picks becoming instant stars, a disproportionate number of the edge players, first round or otherwise, who eventually emerge as stars have required a year or two of seasoning--some combination of gaining comfortability with the system and the pro game in general, technique improvements, or strength and conditioning development.

Gary's behind where the optimistic projections would have put him after 15 games. I'm OK with that. The flashes show that the potential upside is considerable. I said coming in that where he needs to improve is with his hand work to be able to do more than one-note bull rushes. That is still the case. If anybody is unsure how hand work is essential to the edge tool box just watch Z. In this last game there was a replay spotlight of Z punching the OL on the inside shoulder, getting him off-balance enough to blow by on the outside.

 

[RRyder]

You don’t take your best players of the field unless you have to. Gary is getting some snaps ... hopefully he will get more. I don’t know how Gary’s progression will go, but the assumption you made is biased.

Pass rushers generally rotate in and out alot. Also when the Smith's come out Fackrell is the one relieving them. Not Gary. It would seem you are the one comming from a position of bias.

Gary has promise for the future but it shouldnt be denied that he's shown extremely little considering his draft position.

Yes he's played better the last few weeks under a small sample size but the fact yes only been able to get on the field for 15 snaps a game and hasnt been able to steal playing time from Fackrell isnt a great endorsement

 

[HardRightEdge]

Pass rushers generally rotate in and out alot. Also when the Smith's come out Fackrell is the one relieving them. Not Gary.

Fackrell has taken 385 defensive snaps, 38.8%. Gary has taken 232 / 23.4%.

While Fackrell has clearly gotten more work you overstated the case.

As for edge players rotating in and out a lot, Z. is at an 84% snap count, P. is at 85%. These guys don't leave the field much. Z. playing snaps inside affords more edge rotation snaps. I seem to recall some snaps where all 4 of these guys were on the field reminiscent of the Capers NASCAR.

 

[swhitset]

Pass rushers generally rotate in and out alot. Also when the Smith's come out Fackrell is the one relieving them. Not Gary. It would seem you are the one comming from a position of bias.

Gary has promise for the future but it shouldnt be denied that he's shown extremely little considering his draft position.

Yes he's played better the last few weeks under a small sample size but the fact yes only been able to get on the field for 15 snaps a game and hasnt been able to steal playing time from Fackrell isnt a great endorsement

Bias would mean I have a particular agenda one way or another... if Fackrell is getting the snaps right now... I’m fine with that because it means he is performing well. I certainly hope that Gary eventually takes over more playing time since he represents significant draft capital. But, at this point I think all of the negativity where he is concerned is premature. I stand by my previous statement.

 

[Poppa San]

Both Preston and Z Smith play a very high proportion of total snaps and could certainly use more rest. The fact that Gary isn't being used much, despite the fact that both Smiths play such a high proportion of plays, shows that the coaching staff doesn't think Gary is ready for prime time.

You realize that JJ Watt, for instance, consistently plays 90%-100% of the snaps with only a handful of games per season less than that. He's had a reduced workload when healthy only the past 2 years. The Smith's each hit 90% 3 times this season.

 

[PackinMSP]

I'm curious if they can start working Gary in on the DL more and rotational with Z? As an elephant maybe

Lowry has progressed nicely and with Gary's size you can just put him at the other DE spot to rush the passer and move him around

I would just like to see him continue to get more live game reps

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just to be abundantly clear about it, I'm not suggesting Gary is a bust by any means.

But this season the Packers would have definitely benefitted by select a player at a different position with the 12th overall pick instead of using it on the fourth edge rusher on the depth chart.

Lowry has progressed nicely and with Gary's size you can just put him at the other DE spot to rush the passer and move him around

Gary needs to get comfortable playing outside linebacker in the NFL. There's no need to move him around at this point.

 

[longtimefan]

2005..

There was no need to waste the 1st rd on a qb..

Same situation here other than the 2019 1st round is playing...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

2005..

There was no need to waste the 1st rd on a qb..

Same situation here other than the 2019 1st round is playing...

Gary wasn't predicted to be drafted first overall by any experts entering the draft though. In addition he doesn't play quarterback either.

If you expect him to have a similar impact as Rodgers you will end up hugely disappointed.

 

[longtimefan]

Gary wasn't predicted to be drafted first overall by any experts entering the draft though. In addition he doesn't play quarterback either.

If you expect him to have a similar impact as Rodgers you will end up hugely disappointed.

Not saying that at all. That's the wrong leap you are placing on me.

Let me change a few words you posted..

But this season the Packers would have definitely benefitted by select a player at a different position with the 24th overall pick instead of using it on a Qb that may not see the field for few years.

You may not see it..but I see it as a similar stance on drafting a guy you said we didn't need.. doesn't matter if it was a qb or not..majority of people thought it was a wasted pick in 2005 as it is now.

You may think it's wrong, but that's how it comes across to me.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not saying that at all. That's the wrong leap you are placing on me.

Let me change a few words you posted..

But this season the Packers would have definitely benefitted by select a player at a different position with the 24th overall pick instead of using it on a Qb that may not see the field for few years.

You may not see it..but I see it as a similar stance on drafting a guy you said we didn't need.. doesn't matter if it was a qb or not..majority of people thought it was a wasted pick in 2005 as it is now.

You may think it's wrong, but that's how it comes across to me.

Actually I'm not evaluating the Packers selection of Gary at this point as it's way too early for it.

There shouldn't be any doubt that this year's team would have benefitted from addressing a different position with the pick.

That doesn't mean the move won't work out in the long haul though.

As a side note, the 2005 Packers finished 4-12, no rookie would have made a difference that year.

 

[longtimefan]

Actually I'm not evaluating the Packers selection of Gary at this point as it's way too early for it.

There shouldn't be any doubt that this year's team would have benefitted from addressing a different position with the pick.

That doesn't mean the move won't work out in the long haul though.

As a side note, the 2005 Packers finished 4-12, no rookie would have made a difference that year.

Still similar circumstance..

 

[PackinMSP]

Captain,

Wasn't Hockenson the preferred pick by Gute, can't remember where I read it but when he went to the Lions it was over
.
Hockenson would have been awesome

 

[isocleas2]

It's not unique to the Packers fanbase, but some fans seem awfully premature with calling out players for being busts. If we had it their way Davante Adams would have been cut after his 2nd year in favor of the great white hope Jeff Janis

Gary had 3 very good players ahead of him on the depth chart, it's not surprising at all they're bringing him along slowly.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Captain,

Wasn't Hockenson the preferred pick by Gute, can't remember where I read it but when he went to the Lions it was over
.
Hockenson would have been awesome

I don't know if Gutekunst would have been interested in drafting Hockenson at #12. It doesn't matter as he wasn't available once the Packers were on the clock.

It's not unique to the Packers fanbase, but some fans seem awfully premature with calling out players for being busts. If we had it their way Davante Adams would have been cut after his 2nd year in favor of the great white hope Jeff Janis

Gary had 3 very good players ahead of him on the depth chart, it's not surprising at all they're bringing him along slowly.

Patience is a virtue.

I haven't seen a single post suggesting Gary as a bust.

 

[isocleas2]

You haven't seen a single post suggesting Gary is a bust, yet you commented on one just a couple weeks ago? Your response to Sanguine Camper in the Kenny Clark thread:

At this point, the Packers wouldn't get much in a trade for Gary. With his lack of production this season, GM's aren't going to put a premium on his combine workout. You are looking at a 4th round pick for him. If he gets 5 sacks the rest of the season, then maybe he could be traded. Otherwise, most GM's aren't going to risk much on a guy who looks like a bust so far.

While Gary's rookie season has been disappointing there's no reason for the Packers to give up on their highest picks in years after only one season

Some fans have been targeting Gary ever since the preseason when he didn't pit up enough empty stats in meaningless games.

 

[PackinMSP]

It's obviously premature to label Gary anything, but I think the early returns have been fine.

We are not talking about a Justin Harrell situation/production again here.

I'm not a coach, but I also think they should consider moving him around more in Pettine's D. Although that would have been more so a Capers thing. Just with his combo of size/speed/athleticism and since you already have a few guys entrenched and (presumably) won't be moving around anytime soon in Kenny Clark, Dean Lowry, both Smiths at OLB. And a solid 3rd/back up in Fackrell.

Why not move him around some?

That's always been my theory

As far as Hockenson, I had really wanted him and I think he'll be the next Gronkowski. Sure he's injured this year, but his production already matches what we've gotten all year from Graham. It's a what if scenario because i read somewhere he was on Gute's Board.

Noah Fant would have been fantastic too, but that's another coulda/shoulda

My point is, I think Gary made a lot of sense then and there hasn't been anything to say he's a bust/not worthy of our pick...but why not move him around some and use his versatility due to his size/speed/athleticism combo is what i'm saying

I don't get it..

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You haven't seen a single post suggesting Gary is a bust, yet you commented on one just a couple weeks ago? Your response to Sanguine Camper in the Kenny Clark thread:

At this point, the Packers wouldn't get much in a trade for Gary. With his lack of production this season, GM's aren't going to put a premium on his combine workout. You are looking at a 4th round pick for him. If he gets 5 sacks the rest of the season, then maybe he could be traded. Otherwise, most GM's aren't going to risk much on a guy who looks like a bust so far.

While Gary's rookie season has been disappointing there's no reason for the Packers to give up on their highest picks in years after only one season

Some fans have been targeting Gary ever since the preseason when he didn't pit up enough empty stats in meaningless games.

Well, it seems like I forgot about Sanguine Camper considering him a bust.

Just for the record, it wasn't me calling him a bust, which your post might indicate to other posters.

I'm not a coach, but I also think they should consider moving him around more in Pettine's D. Although that would have been more so a Capers thing. Just with his combo of size/speed/athleticism and since you already have a few guys entrenched and (presumably) won't be moving around anytime soon in Kenny Clark, Dean Lowry, both Smiths at OLB. And a solid 3rd/back up in Fackrell.

Why not move him around some?

That's always been my theory

My point is, I think Gary made a lot of sense then and there hasn't been anything to say he's a bust/not worthy of our pick...but why not move him around some and use his versatility due to his size/speed/athleticism combo is what i'm saying

I don't get it..

Gary needs to learn playing outside linebacker in the NFL before the Packers should even think about moving him around.

Once again, I'm not suggesting that Gary won't be able to develop into an impact player but it's really not that hard to understand that this season the Packers would have benefitted of using the 12th overall pick in the draft on a different position.