Free Agency: Packers Should Green Bay Pursue?

[Do7]

Yes, this nails it.

There is a segment of Packer fans who will default to blaming Rodgers when a connection isn't there.

They'd blame him for the common cold if they could. XD

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

it shouldn't matter if the player is considered a "good player." If he's on the field running routes he should be thrown to if open. That's the issue people were trying to communicate. Ignoring open receivers simply because they weren't part of the exclusive trust circle.

I think you are over simplifying what happens in the NFL between QB and WR. I could probably go out there and "get open", but if I am not where my QB thinks I am going to be, he doesn't have time to try and find me. That works in backyard football, but in the NFL a lot of it is timing with routes/locations and repetition of what happens after a play breaks down, that makes for successful chemistry between QB and receiver.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes I pretty much agree and would have agreed except about the TE. I am going to count on what we have there. Can't see trading up so far because like you said, we would be giving up a whole lot and I doubt we have a player to send to someone (but I guess that's a possibility). I could see trading up 4 or 5 spaces if the right player was there.

A lot will depend on what happens in FA. If Gluten can get a veteran WR, then it might make sense to trade up 4 or 5 spots to get an ILB like Queen or Murray. And if Gluten goes the other way and gets an ILB stud in FA like Corey Littleton, he can probably stand pat at #30 and find a WR. I’d love to get Simmons, but Gluten can’t get there from here.

As for FA, he can probably afford only one impact player (there won’t be a repeat of last year in FA).

I’d also like him to go after TE Austin Cooper. But again, he can probably only afford one “splash” player in FA.

 

[AmishMafia]

I think you are over simplifying what happens in the NFL between QB and WR. I could probably go out there and "get open", but if I am not where my QB thinks I am going to be, he doesn't have time to try and find me. That works in backyard football, but in the NFL a lot of it is timing with routes/locations and repetition of what happens after a play breaks down, that makes for successful chemistry between QB and receiver.

One really has to make a bunch of assumptions in order to exonerate Rodgers.

• The WR was running the wrong route.
• Rodgers didnt see him wide open running across the middle of the field.
• He never has much pass protection
• Chemistry is entirely a WR issue
• Timing is entirely a WR issue
• Posters blaming Rodgers are just meanies with an axe to grind

 

[AmishMafia]

A lot will depend on what happens in FA. If Gluten can get a veteran WR, then it might make sense to trade up 4 or 5 spots to get an ILB like Queen or Murray. And if Gluten goes the other way and gets an ILB stud in FA like Corey Littleton, he can probably stand pat at #30 and find a WR. I’d love to get Simmons, but Gluten can’t get there from here.

As for FA, he can probably afford only one impact player (there won’t be a repeat of last year in FA).

I’d also like him to go after TE Austin Cooper. But again, he can probably only afford one “splash” player in FA.

Hope we devote our efforts for a ILB in free agency. Doubt Murray or Queen will work in a trade up. Not many in this draft so they may go early.

 

[GleefulGary]

One really has to make a bunch of assumptions in order to exonerate Rodgers.

• The WR was running the wrong route.
• Rodgers didnt see him wide open running across the middle of the field.
• He never has much pass protection
• Chemistry is entirely a WR issue
• Timing is entirely a WR issue
• Posters blaming Rodgers are just meanies with an axe to grind

Yet this didn't seem to be an issue when the WR room had good talent. Funny how that works.

I think there's two things. Rodgers skill is deteriorating. It's fairly obvious he isn't what he once was. The other thing is that recently, our WR room has been not very good. I mean, outside of Adams, we just haven't had anybody.

We've also seen Rodgers have no issue throwing the ball to guys like Jarret Boykin, Allison, and Lazard, none of whom are exceptional talents. But they are/were in the right places.

And yeah, most of the time, that blame is going on the WR. Rodgers clearly isn't perfect, but we have heard from coaches and players how detailed he is, how he knows the playbooks front to back. We know his talent level. We know he's a HOF QB. Knowing all of those things, yeah, he's getting the benefit of the doubt over the WR's, and rightfully so. Unless you wanna tell me MVS has a better understanding of where he should be than Aaron friggin Rodgers.

 

[GleefulGary]

Fwiw, these screen shots of open receivers are incredibly misleading. We don't know the route progressions, and a guy can look open in a still shot but actually be a pick waiting to happen.

Sometimes a guy gets open after Rodgers has gone through that progression, or he's open but the 4th option. Sometimes Rodgers just misses it. But by and large, it's not on Rodgers and anybody thinking reasonably can see that.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I believe Lewis could be re-signed for the minimum. With the veteran benefit in place he wouldn't count more against the cap then another player with two years of experience.



The Packers have enough cap space to sign a top tier free agent at tight end or wide receiver. With the team in a win now mode I don't see Gutekunst and Ball to frontload any contract this offseason.
They could also sign a top tier ILB like Corey Littleton. Unfortunately, they then wouldn’t be able to go after a guy like Hooper. It may be easier to pursue an ILB in FA, given the WR depth in this year’s draft. Personally, I’d like to see them go after Hooper and deal with the ILB situation in the draft. GB hasn’t had a decent TE since Cook, and a good to great TE makes a huge difference in offensive output. And the draft (I think) is weak in TEs this year.


Daniels was released on July 24 long after free agency started.

 

[Dantés]

One really has to make a bunch of assumptions in order to exonerate Rodgers.

• The WR was running the wrong route.
• Rodgers didnt see him wide open running across the middle of the field.
• He never has much pass protection
• Chemistry is entirely a WR issue
• Timing is entirely a WR issue
• Posters blaming Rodgers are just meanies with an axe to grind

Saying that Rodgers is not abnormally slow or reticent to throw to new pass catchers is NOT the same thing as saying that he's faultless in every particular circumstance and has no responsibility in terms of chemistry.

If we want to have smart discussions about these things, we can't be such sloppy thinkers.

But if the narrative is going to be proven that Rodgers has a serious problem throwing to good players that he doesn't know well, I'm going to need to see the examples of players who he hampered and then have left Green Bay and gone on to be really successful pass catchers away from Rodgers.

Because if it's true that he's just a particular problem in this regard, then we should see that. And I am not aware of it happening.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One really has to make a bunch of assumptions in order to exonerate Rodgers.

I personally am not trying to exonerate Rodgers completely, he has his good days and his bad days. However, there is a reason why everyone is talking about upgrading WR and TE, Rodgers really hasn't had sh*t to work with in a few seasons. There is a huge difference between the skills of Davante Adams and the other 5-7 WR's that Rodgers had on the field in 2019. This constant buzzing of "Rodgers doesn't throw to open receivers or only to receivers he trusts" sounds like he should be having a great game every game, no matter who is on the field with him or the defense he is playing against.

I'm not going to go through the exercise, but I would love to see a chart of the Packers WR's from 2019. A chart that weights where they were drafted, as well as their experience in the NFL. My hunch is that the Packer group from last year would be towards the bottom of the chart, if not on the bottom. Yet some feel skill level and experience shouldn't factor into results on the field?

 

[AmishMafia]

Fwiw, these screen shots of open receivers are incredibly misleading.

Then watch the videos.

 

[AmishMafia]

I personally am not trying to exonerate Rodgers completely, he has his good days and his bad days. However, there is a reason why everyone is talking about upgrading WR and TE, Rodgers really hasn't had sh*t to work with in a few seasons. There is a huge difference between the skills of Davante Adams and the other 5-7 WR's that Rodgers had on the field in 2019. This constant buzzing of "Rodgers doesn't throw to open receivers or only to receivers he trusts" sounds like he should be having a great game every game, no matter who is on the field with him or the defense he is playing against.

I'm not going to go through the exercise, but I would love to see a chart of the Packers WR's from 2019. A chart that weights where they were drafted, as well as their experience in the NFL. My hunch is that the Packer group from last year would be towards the bottom of the chart, if not on the bottom. Yet some feel skill level and experience shouldn't factor into results on the field?

Of course the skill should factor into it. But you act like skill = draft position.

I saw where someone analyzed the PFF grades of all offensive players except the QB. Packers offense ranked 6th in the NFL. Rodgers was ranked 9th IIRC. So this notion that there is no talent around Rodgers is wrong.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think this is a very realistic concern, it concerns me and I am a Rodgers fan. Call it an "elephant or fact", it seems to be proven with what has happened in GB since Rodgers took over. Part of #12's bread and butter is being connected/good chemistry with his receivers, when a play breaks down, they both kind of know what the other is going to do. That kind of chemistry with Rodgers seems to take several years.

This year there’s roughly 5-6 WR in the draft who are just purely talented enough to earn more looks early. How many can catch on quickly in an intricate system be years end? idk

Those top group of WR are roughly equal.. or in some cases better than Metcalf type rookie production out of the gate IMO. Of course having the right QB throwing you the ball helps immensely

 

[Heyjoe4]

Saying that Rodgers is not abnormally slow or reticent to throw to new pass catchers is NOT the same thing as saying that he's faultless in every particular circumstance and has no responsibility in terms of chemistry.

If we want to have smart discussions about these things, we can't be such sloppy thinkers.

But if the narrative is going to be proven that Rodgers has a serious problem throwing to good players that he doesn't know well, I'm going to need to see the examples of players who he hampered and then have left Green Bay and gone on to be really successful pass catchers away from Rodgers.

Because if it's true that he's just a particular problem in this regard, then we should see that. And I am not aware of it happening.

Greg Jennings comes to mind. He didn’t exactly tear it up when he went to MN.

 

[GleefulGary]

Of course the skill should factor into it. But you act like skill = draft position.

I saw where someone analyzed the PFF grades of all offensive players except the QB. Packers offense ranked 6th in the NFL. Rodgers was ranked 9th IIRC. So this notion that there is no talent around Rodgers is wrong.

Adams, Jones, and the OL.

Who else would be considered average across the NFL? The skill positions are lacking.

 

[AmishMafia]

Hey, I just researched and it turns out Rodgers isnt that talented.


He was drafted 25th.

All of these QBs were drafted higher.


Kyler Murray
Matt Ryan
Mitch Trubisky
Robert Griffen 3
Josh Allen
Baker Maysfield
Phillip Rivers
Jared Goff
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold
Carson Wentz
Janis Winston
Ryan Tannehill


There.

AR is the 14th talented QB in the NFL.

Now can we just stop this AR isnt the problem nonsense.

 

[GleefulGary]

Hey, I just researched and it turns out Rodgers isnt that talented.


He was drafted 25th.

All of these QBs were drafted higher.


Kyler Murray
Matt Ryan
Mitch Trubisky
Robert Griffen 3
Josh Allen
Baker Maysfield
Phillip Rivers
Jared Goff
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold
Carson Wentz
Janis Winston
Ryan Tannehill


There.

AR is the 14th talented QB in the NFL.

Now can we just stop this AR isnt the problem nonsense.

You're deflecting from the question quite well. Good job!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hey, I just researched and it turns out Rodgers isnt that talented.


He was drafted 25th.

All of these QBs were drafted higher.


Kyler Murray
Matt Ryan
Mitch Trubisky
Robert Griffen 3
Josh Allen
Baker Maysfield
Phillip Rivers
Jared Goff
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold
Carson Wentz
Janis Winston
Ryan Tannehill


There.

AR is the 14th talented QB in the NFL.

Now can we just stop this AR isnt the problem nonsense.

Well done grasshopper! You even left out some notables that the Packers missed out on in the first round over the last 20 years!

• Blaine Gabbert (#10 pick)
• Christian Ponder (#12)
• Brady Quinn (#22)
• Kyle Boller (#19)
• David Carr (#1)
• Josh Freeman (#17)
• E.J. Manuel (#16)
• Brandon Weedon (#22)
• JP Losman (#22)
• Tim Tebow (#25)
• Jake Locker (#8)
• Matt Leinart (#10)
• Joey Harrington (#3)
• Johnny Manziel (#22)
• JaMarcus Russel (#1)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Of course the skill should factor into it. But you act like skill = draft position.

I saw where someone analyzed the PFF grades of all offensive players except the QB. Packers offense ranked 6th in the NFL. Rodgers was ranked 9th IIRC. So this notion that there is no talent around Rodgers is wrong.

So skill does not influence draft position?

The most talent around Rodgers, besides his OL, is with 2 players, Aaron Jones and Davante Adams. I have a hard time saying any of the TE's or other WR's are talented as of now.

OK, just for argument sake, name the last WR drafted past the 3rd round for the Packers, that amounted to anything, I will let you include the Favre time period too.

HINT: The Packers have picked 14 WRs in Rounds 4-7 since 2005 and signed a bunch of UDFA WR's. Marquez Valdes-Scantling leads the drafted group in receiving yards (1,003) and receiving TDs (4). GMO leads the UDFA group with 1045 yards and 6 TD's.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Then watch the videos.

Are you referring to the videos, where you the viewer are looking at the field from a birds eye view, in slow motion and one frame at a time and then saying "look....there is an open receiver that Rodgers missed!". I have watched those films and listened to the analysts dissect them. What I wish they would do is mount a camera on Rodgers face mask and show those same videos from his viewpoint, in real time. Then tell me how many "open receivers" you are able to see.

 

[Dantés]

Adams, Jones, and the OL.

Who else would be considered average across the NFL? The skill positions are lacking.

He won't answer the question, but he'll persist in making the assertion.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

On a side note, I had to look up Jeff Janis's stats just for old time sake. Poor guy, hasn't played in 2 years and he appears to be stuck for eternity on this site wearing a Browns Jersey. A team he never ended up even making.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Jeff Janis

Height: 6-3 Weight: 219 Age: 28

Born: 6/24/1991 Oscoda , MI

College: Saginaw Valley State

Experience: 5 Seasons

REC 17

YDS 200

AVG 11.8

TDS 1

 

[RRyder]

Adams, Jones, and the OL.

Who else would be considered average across the NFL? The skill positions are lacking.

That's 70% of the other players on the field excluding Rodgers

I agree we need more talent. But for a QB that's getting paid as much as Rodgers he has to be able to elevate that other 30%

 

[RRyder]

Are you referring to the videos, where you the viewer are looking at the field from a birds eye view, in slow motion and one frame at a time and then saying "look....there is an open receiver that Rodgers missed!". I have watched those films and listened to the analysts dissect them. What I wish they would do is mount a camera on Rodgers face mask and show those same videos from his viewpoint, in real time. Then tell me how many "open receivers" you are able to see.

Honestly not sure what point it would prove. That we on an internet forum arent capable of dissecting a defense in real time?

Does that mean we cant be critical of Blake Martinez because I'm pretty confident most wouldn't have a freaking clue who had the ball if you strapped a camera to his helmet and let people try and read it in real time

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But for a QB that's getting paid as much as Rodgers he has to be able to elevate that other 30%

Maybe he is elevating them as much as anyone can? Tell me which WR's have made the Packer roster long enough to find out that they just aren't all that great, get cut and go to another team and play better?

Honestly not sure what point it would prove. That we on an internet forum arent capable of dissecting a defense in real time?

What point would it be to actually see what Aaron Rodgers is seeing VS looking at a play from above in slow motion? Are you serious with that question? Are you dissecting the defense from his point of view or from some other vantage point?