Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers are awful at DE and ILB. Kenny Clark can only do so much and once you have to start modifying the defense to account for an awful dline it starts to cascade. Also, only one corner on the team is any good on a consistent basis.

The Packers have talented players but their best pass rusher is only truly elite at rushing the passer when he does it from the inside (talking about Z). I agree that having an elite corner, OLB, and safety plus another very good safety, DT, and OLB should be enough to field a decent defense but for whatever reason the parts don't seem to mesh...and they're being coaches by one of the worst DCs in recent memory.

I definitely agree the Packers lack talent on the defensive line and at inside linebacker and that was one of my main concerns entering the season. Nevertheless the unit should be capable of performing at a better level than that did against the Saints.

Fire Barry if his defense surrenders more than 17 points this next game.

And tell the next DC we demand a 2000 Baltimore Ravens level defense here or his *** is going to get kicked outta here too.

I wasn't in favor of hiring Barry either but I'm convinced the Packers will hold on to him for at least this season. The unit definitely doesn't have the talent to perform at the same level as the 2000 Ravens no matter the coordinator.

 

[milani]

I’ll be happy with a 1 score Win in regulation. Every week we buy time, we also get both the O and D gradually back in rhythm. It should take the Offense 2-3 weeks to start firing on all cylinders. Longer for the Defense, but I could see Z or Gary or Preston stepping up to redeem themselves. You don’t stop all those guys every game idc who is DC

What the experts usually say would help is a string of weak opponents to give a team a sense of confidence albeit false confidence. Unfortunately, this season has no Jets, Jags, and Broncos on it.

 

[Snoops]

The Packers lack talent at inside linebacker as well.



The Packers have talented players on defense. Clark, Z. Smith, P. Smith, Gary, Alexander, Amos, Savage. While that might not be good enough to feature an elite defense it should be to not get dominated like on Sunday though.



Once again, the Packers have a lot more talented players on defense than most of you give credit for.

So the problem is they hire absolute unproven defense coordinators or proven BUMS to coach our defense. Also who’s to blame for having consistent bums like Lancaster starting 3 years in a row on the line and to keep giving Kevin king the starting job 5 years in a row.. who is injury prone and gets torched consistently. I’m sorry but kings contract this year blew my mind. Especially with better options in free agency. Hayward signed for less money than king.. would have been way better

 

[Snoops]

Fire Barry if his defense surrenders more than 17 points this next game.

And tell the next DC we demand a 2000 Baltimore Ravens level defense here or his *** is going to get kicked outta here too.

They hold onto players and coaches wayyyyyy to long.

 

[Snoops]

Wow. Apparently you've seen more of those players than the coaches have. Can you share your secret of spying on practices?

He has got a point ENOUGH of lancaster… look at his stats it’s pathetic!!! You stick a orange traffic cone on the line it’s gonna be more productive.. so yes slaton is a Massive upgrade. Absolutely nothing to lose whatsoever lancaster has ZERO business on any team..

 

[OldSchool101]

He has got a point ENOUGH of lancaster… look at his stats it’s pathetic!!! You stick a orange traffic cone on the line it’s gonna be more productive.. so yes slaton is a Massive upgrade. Absolutely nothing to lose whatsoever lancaster has ZERO business on any team..

imo we lack 1 more above average VETERAN D Lineman. pulling the weakest link and making it a relative strength would pay dividends. We can’t expect Slaton to develop overnight, those guys often take 1-2 years to rise. I see Lowry as an ultra reliable depth player who should get 25-30% of the D snaps in a given season as a reliever for our starters. Lowry ain’t terrible, he’s just not a difference maker. He’s JAG

 

[Snoops]

imo we lack 1 more above average VETERAN D Lineman. pulling the weakest link and making it a relative strength would pay dividends. We can’t expect Slaton to develop overnight, those guys often take 1-2 years to rise. I see Lowry as an ultra reliable depth player who should get 25-30% of the D snaps in a given season as a reliever for our starters. Lowry ain’t terrible, he’s just not a difference maker. He’s JAG

Absolutely if injury were to rise lowry is a capable starter just not someone I want starting and counting for making plays he just hasn’t done enough to wow me in anyway shape or form. I concur with your statement it does take time to develop players. Just the last 10 years plus of putrid run defense and never having a punishing MLB is frustrating

 

[OldSchool101]

Absolutely if injury were to rise lowry is a capable starter just not someone I want starting and counting for making plays he just hasn’t done enough to wow me in anyway shape or form. I concur with your statement it does take time to develop players. Just the last 10 years plus of putrid run defense and never having a punishing MLB is frustrating

yeah I don’t understand why we don’t value iLB. It’s obvious it’s just a position they don’t emphasize. Maybe because of the heavy investment at Edge idk.

 

[Snoops]

yeah I don’t understand why we don’t value iLB. It’s obvious it’s just a position they don’t emphasize. Maybe because of the heavy investment at Edge idk.

They just don’t ever.. but good defenses have punishing mlbs. they don’t have money so yeah the investment on edge is it and they never spend a high draft pick there either.

 

[mradtke66]

yeah I don’t understand why we don’t value iLB. It’s obvious it’s just a position they don’t emphasize. Maybe because of the heavy investment at Edge idk.

Honestly? It's a passing league now days. ILBs are run defenders. Ergo, they are valued less. They are the defensive equivalent of the fullback.

3 down ILBs that can cover dynamic TEs and receiving backs are valued, but they are rare. Normally only 1 or 2 per draft and they go top 15. (Typically, anyway.)

This isn't a new thing, it's just gotten more extreme as the years have gone by.

 

[realitybytez]

This only makes sense of you think the coaches are intentionally playing worse players. The more likely scenario is that the guys they have aren't good enough to beat out the guys playing, which would be on Gute.

actually it would be on punkin head murphy. i don't think gute has as much control as you believe he does.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

He has got a point ENOUGH of lancaster… look at his stats it’s pathetic!!! You stick a orange traffic cone on the line it’s gonna be more productive.. so yes slaton is a Massive upgrade. Absolutely nothing to lose whatsoever lancaster has ZERO business on any team..

How do you sneak in to see how the other guys play?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

actually it would be on punkin head murphy. i don't think gute has as much control as you believe he does.

I'm pretty sure Murphy has very little input into the draft process. If you have some kind of breaking news involving a team president being the GM I would LOVE to hear it though.

 

[realitybytez]

I'm pretty sure Murphy has very little input into the draft process. If you have some kind of breaking news involving a team president being the GM I would LOVE to hear it though.

i used to be on a different forum where there was a guy who claimed to have inside knowledge of how the managemenr structure works in reality. he claimed that murphy has his fingers everywhere and is a micromanager. i can't prove it, but i tend to believe it.

 

[mradtke66]

i used to be on a different forum where there was a guy who claimed to have inside knowledge of how the managemenr structure works in reality. he claimed that murphy has his fingers everywhere and is a micromanager. i can't prove it, but i tend to believe it.

This certainly could be true. This could also just be confirmation bias rearing its ugly head.

 

[realitybytez]

This certainly could be true. This could also just be confirmation bias rearing its ugly head.

you are correct of course. but murphy is the one who created the management structure where both the gm and the head coach report directly to him. while the packers may not be the only team with that structure, it is not a typical structure for an nfl team.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Barry's scheme took a whack here

Packers X's and O's with LeRoy Butler: Breaking down the breakdowns in the secondary

LeRoy and Tom look at mistakes in the secondary that cost the Packers at key moments in Sunday's blowout loss to the Saints.

www.packersnews.com

 

[rodell330]

I literally watched the game like well, I’ve seen this for years it’s nothing new. Our d line sucks and can’t get pressure, they struggle against physical o lines. The lbs do not fill their gaps well, and the secondary even tho we have talent they just never seem to be In position smh. I said this defense would rank no hire than 22….they look like they are well on their way.

 

[OldSchool101]

Barry's scheme took a whack here

Packers X's and O's with LeRoy Butler: Breaking down the breakdowns in the secondary

LeRoy and Tom look at mistakes in the secondary that cost the Packers at key moments in Sunday's blowout loss to the Saints.

www.packersnews.com

First of all thank you that was interesting material.

From what Leroy was saying, these are plays that veteran Safeties have both seen on multiple occasions and they each either left their area of responsibility or they were not sharp diagnosing the play correctly. Didn’t see a “scheme problem “ I saw individuals going rogue from their assignment. Savage has blinders on while Sullivan is clearly communicating to him what’s about to happen and as Butler said and I trust him.. “Savage abandoned his Quarter”. That’s not good.

This is another reason why I think Savage needs to be more involved up closer. He’s an aggressive downhill player, but gets caught out of position when his instincts don’t activate and he’s at his worst playing flat footed.
In college tape I remember Savage did a lot of shooting into the backfield early diagnosing the run and covering flats on swing patterns and that disruption (using his speed and aggression) was his calling card. He’s perfect for that Star role. I’ve felt like he’s not being utilized fully considering his talent.

The good news is these misdiagnosed plays are very fixable

 

[milani]

I literally watched the game like well, I’ve seen this for years it’s nothing new. Our d line sucks and can’t get pressure, they struggle against physical o lines. The lbs do not fill their gaps well, and the secondary even tho we have talent they just never seem to be In position smh. I said this defense would rank no hire than 22….they look like they are well on their way.

Correct.

 

[gopkrs]

Honestly? It's a passing league now days. ILBs are run defenders. Ergo, they are valued less. They are the defensive equivalent of the fullback.

3 down ILBs that can cover dynamic TEs and receiving backs are valued, but they are rare. Normally only 1 or 2 per draft and they go top 15. (Typically, anyway.)

This isn't a new thing, it's just gotten more extreme as the years have gone by.

If you look at the box score you will see that the Saints ran us to death. You have to stop the run first. I think we have some talent at inside linebacker. Probably McDuffie and Barnes will end up playing. And just maybe Burks has turned a corner. But anyway, the linebackers were not put in a position to stop the run. Some of those alignment just screamed "run on us, I dare you." And they did. We played on our heals imho. The inside linebackers are key whether we like it or not.

 

[mradtke66]

If you look at the box score you will see that the Saints ran us to death. You have to stop the run first. I think we have some talent at inside linebacker. Probably McDuffie and Barnes will end up playing. And just maybe Burks has turned a corner. But anyway, the linebackers were not put in a position to stop the run. Some of those alignment just screamed "run on us, I dare you." And they did. We played on our heals imho. The inside linebackers are key whether we like it or not.

It may or may not be true the issue is with our ILBs. It could be the DTs. It could be poor play calls. I'd really like to see the all-22 camera, because it could just be poor spacing.

And yes, the Saints killed us on the ground, but I'd like to see a breakdown of where the runs came from. It may or may not be ILBs.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

.
In college tape I remember Savage did a lot of shooting into the backfield early diagnosing the run and covering flats on swing patterns and that disruption (using his speed and aggression) was his calling card. He’s perfect for that Star role. I’ve felt like he’s not being utilized fully considering his talent.

I would say that does fall under Barry's scheme problems

 

[gopkrs]

And yes, the Saints killed us on the ground, but I'd like to see a breakdown of where the runs came from. It may or may not be ILBs.

I did not say it was the linebackers. I said they were not put in the right places. That is on the coach.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would say that does fall under Barry's scheme problems

That part maybe. However I still think 1 road game to start the season is not enough information. My first job I worked for Perkins Cake n Steak and started as a bus boy (1983?) The first day on the job I was vacuuming the restaurant and I passed by the GM (Jack) in a booth seat doing financials. I rolled over the cord and it got sucked into the vacuum right next to him and of course I had trouble finding the switch to cut it off. Jack watched me fight with that vacuum and when I finally turned it off he was looking at me with this look like he was going to fire me on the spot!

I ended up being the fastest hardest working bus boy they ever had. I could wash dishes and 3 bus boys couldn’t catch up.. Jack would ask me to go out and help them bus tables! I did 2 jobs to 3 peoples 1 job! I went Host/cashier.. promoted to prep cook .. then line cook in 18 months. They begged me to stay when I put on notice and left for the Hospitality/Hotel industry.

Now you can tell me they had good reason to fire that busboy he completely ruined a good, expensive commercial grade vacuum. But reality is you use prudence and slow down and give people adequate time to prove their worth. We’re human we make mistakes and the good DC’s find ways to correct those and win. 1 ruined vacuum (or game) isn’t adequate info. TI determine worth.
I might agree with you after 6 losses though.