Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[pacmaniac]

Its a coaching fraternity. When are any of these guys going to throw any other coach under the bus mid season for coaching performance at a press conference.

Pretty sure Joe Barry would have to literally eat a puppy on the 50 yard line at halftime to be fired midseason by MLF.

Coordinators get fired in-season ALL the time. Here's an article that mentioned a bunch that got fired mid-season in 2018:

In-Season Coordinator Firings: Do They Make a Difference?

Moves like the in-season dismissal of Bengals DC Teryl Austin are often signs of panic—we gotta do something!—rather than well-reasoned strategic decisions

www.si.com

 

[Firethorn1001]

on ALL the time. Here's an article that mentioned a bunch that got fired mid-season in 2018:

And you linked an article that discusses if it is a good idea to fire coaches mid season.

My point was that MLF is not going to go up to the podium and just spout fan forum fire about how much a coach sucks even if he thought that nor would most coaches. Hell, the Lions ST coach defied Bevell during a game (and was fired), but if I remember right they didn't drag him publicly.

Nothing he has done up to now suggests he is going to fire him now. Maybe he thinks the entire defensive coaching staff sucks so firing Barry won't do a darn bit of good.

By the way...none of this means that I think Joe Barry should be the DC. I just don't think it isn't happening until after the season.

 

[milani]

If MLF doesn't think 364 rushing yards is a big enough problem to can Berry, then MLF is the problem. Both of them then need to go!

Probably wait until after the season.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Probably wait until after the season.

Waiting for after the season was a huge mistake with Mo Drayton. Circumstances are different this year because the team is much worse, but he's showing he can't manage a coaching staff.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just can't with MLF anymore. If he can't see the problem that everyone outside of 1265 Lombardi Ave. can, he needs to go as well.

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What I don't like about his comment, is that it seems to absolve Barry from a very obvious problem. By doing so, MLF is basically saying that the defensive issues are all due to the players.

 

[PackerDNA]

MLF basically said he doesn't see a problem with anything on offense or defense and there are no changes planned. What?

 

[Magooch]

What I don't like about his comment, is that it seems to absolve Barry from a very obvious problem. By doing so, MLF is basically saying that the defensive issues are all due to the players.

Agreed, and it makes me think like...Okay, even if that's the case...what changed?

Look at our snap count leaders this year on defense.

1. Amos
2. Savage
3. Douglas
4. Alexander
5. P Smith
6. Walker
7. Clark
8. Reed
9. Stokes
10. Campbell
11. Lowry
12. Gary
13. Enagbare
14. Ford
15. Slaton

In other words, 9 out of our 11 most-played defenders are returning players (or 11 of our top-15) and I suspect prior to Gary's injury it was likely 10/11 (by extension same with Campbell too perhaps). In any case...it's largely the same players.

I've heard some say things to the effect of "Well, Barry's not the one out there missing tackles" or whatnot. How about that... our "leaders" in terms of who's missed the most tackles? Douglas, Campbell, Savage, Alexander, Amos make up the top five. Again - that's all returning players.
Douglas was credited with 5 missed tackles in all of 2021. He is already on 5 for this year. Campbell missed 4 in 2021; he's missed 5 in 2022. Savage, believe it or not, he's actually improved: 10 misses in 2021, 4 in 2022. Jaire with 1 miss in 2021; 3 in 2022 (roughly same miss percentage tho, FWIW). Amos has improved, too: 8 missed tackles in 2021, 3 in 2022.
Across the board the team has been credited with a total of 42 missed tackles through 12 games, which of course works out to roughly 3.5 missed tackles per game (4.9%). Last year? 87 missed tackles (5.1 per game) at a rate of 8%. Perhaps missed tackles are not the heart of the issue after all.
So I still have to ask: What changed?

If it is the fault of the players...did these issues exist last season? If so, why was seemingly nothing done to rectify them? If these issues didn't exist last season (or prior)...why have they appeared all of the sudden? Who is responsible for preparing the players to play? Who is responsible for teaching/informing the players of areas of improvement and working to see them improve in those areas? Who is responsible for putting in place a unit that maximizes the talent at our disposal? That's why it's always so tired out to hear things like "The DC isn't the one out there playing, he can't make his players do it for him" and so on. That stuff would never fly in other industries and there's no reason we should be willing to accept it as an excuse here, either. I've said it before but "der Fisch stinkt vom Kopf" - the fish rots from the head first. Who is actually going to take some responsibility?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Who is responsible for teaching/informing the players of areas of improvement and working to see them improve in those areas? Who is responsible for putting in place a unit that maximizes the talent at our disposal?

Spot on.

You can't fire the whole defense and start over. It is one thing when you have 3 or 4 weak links added to a bunch of average players, but that isn't the case in Green Bay. The Packers have 7 first round picks on defense; Rashan Gary, Devonte Wyatt, Kenny Clark, Quay Walker, Jaire Alexander, Eric Stokes, and Darnell Savage. Even worse, these aren't old washed up guys, Clark is the oldest at 27. Then you add to those 7, 3 big-contract players like Preston Smith, Adrian Amos, and De’Vondre Campbell and I think we all can agree, that even before the 3 injuries (Campbell, Stokes, Gary), this defense was and continues to underperform for the most part.

After the very first game of the year against the Vikings, we already heard Alexander complaining about Barry's decision to not let him isolate on Jefferson. Then we hear from various other players throughout the season that they disagree with coaching decisions.

I don't just want to see Barry gone, I want the whole defensive staff gone. I think the big mistake with both Capers and Pettine firings, was keeping bits and pieces of the coaching staff in place. No, this needs a full flush and a whole new coaching philosophy.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I get the desire to punish Barry right now but hiring a new coordinator inter-season never makes any sense, especially a season this awful. All you're doing is either hiring from within, which just sets up a guy to fail since I don't think there's any saving this beat-up unit, OR you're trying to find a guy outside the team in which case having an entire off-season to do a coaching search makes way more sense.

MLF screwed up this defense the day he hired his second option as DC, that would be Joe Barry. In retrospect the Packers should obviously thrown more money at Leonhard until he agreed to come but that ship sailed years ago. This season is trash so just let Barry further screw up the defense to ensure the Packers get a high pick in the draft and Gute can draft another edge rusher or dlineman to help fortify a defense that is lacking players on the dline and that is remarkably shallow at edge rusher; Enagbare looks good but I've been burned by too many year 1 wonders (looking at you Stokes). Spend the offseason conducting a real search for a DC and find someone who hasn't been atrocious at every prior stop as DC.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Spend the offseason conducting a real search for a DC and find someone who hasn't been atrocious at every prior stop as DC.

That is fine if your plan is to hire a current NFL coach. However, if the Packers decide to replace Barry with someone from the college ranks, now is the time to start looking and interviewing. The regular season is over for NCAA schools. Guys like Leonhard are starting to wonder where they will be next season. So I wouldn't wait too long to begin my search and interviews, but I also wouldn't be saying "all is fine with Barry", which seems to be the message that MLF is trying to deliver to the general public.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

That is fine if your plan is to hire a current NFL coach. However, if the Packers decide to replace Barry with someone from the college ranks, now is the time to start looking and interviewing. The regular season is over for NCAA schools. Guys like Leonhard are starting to wonder where they will be next season. So I wouldn't wait too long to begin my search and interviews, but I also wouldn't be saying "all is fine with Barry", which seems to be the message that MLF is trying to deliver to the general public.

You think that in-between game planning sessions, MLF has loads of time to conduct an in-depth DC search? I'm not sure you've read about the truly unhealthy lifestyles these NFL head coaches lead during the season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You think that in-between game planning sessions, MLF has loads of time to conduct an in-depth DC search? I'm not sure you've read about the truly unhealthy lifestyles these NFL head coaches lead during the season.

You do realize that they Packers have a bye week coming up after Sunday? I'm not saying go all in on your DC search, but starting it sooner is better than later IMO.

 

[Pkrjones]

In retrospect the Packers should obviously thrown more money at Leonhard until he agreed to come but that ship sailed years ago.

I just searched NFL Coordinators salaries & they range from $1Mil-$4Mil (for the high end/long tenured guys like Josh McDaniels was and Todd Bowles). Jim Leonard made $1.5Mil this past year at Wisconsin... GB would have to throw a lot of $$ at him to get him to leave his comfy-zone at UW & move his family to GB, I'm guessing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Jim Leonard made $1.5Mil this past year at Wisconsin... GB would have to throw a lot of $$ at him to get him to leave his comfy-zone at UW & move his family to GB, I'm guessing.

The Badgers claim that the position of DC is open and interviews are being conducted. Whether that is just what they have to say/do, I don't know. I don't think Leonhard is a slam dunk to be back as the Badgers DC. Obviously, he may have a say in that, as does Fickell, McIntosh and Leonhard's contract.

 

[Pkrjones]

The Badgers claim that the position of DC is open and interviews are being conducted. Whether that is just what they have to say/do, I don't know. I don't think Leonhard is a slam dunk to be back as the Badgers DC. Obviously, he may have a say in that, as does Fickell, McIntosh and Leonhard's contract.

UW posted 5 positions yesterday, 3 coaching. I think Strength & conditioning coach, & both Coordinator positions. Supposedly Leonard would be considered, but that may be lip-service/formality. Doubt Fickell wants a super-strong potential HC candidate as a coordinator waiting in the wings behind him, just a guess.

Gute & MLF just extended their contracts (were thru '23, not sure how long extensions were). May be a good time for Leonard to put down roots in GB with a 4 year DC deal? Would put him at 44 yrs old after that deal... perfect time for an NFL team to make him a HC.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

UW posted 5 positions yesterday, 3 coaching. I think Strength & conditioning coach, & both Coordinator positions. Supposedly Leonard would be considered, but that may be lip-service/formality. Doubt Fickell wants a super-strong potential HC candidate as a coordinator waiting in the wings behind him, just a guess.

Gute & MLF just extended their contracts (were thru '23, not sure how long extensions were). May be a good time for Leonard to put down roots in GB with a 4 year DC deal? Would put him at 44 yrs old after that deal... perfect time for an NFL team to make him a HC.

The Badgers had to pay Fickell a lot more than I imagined. It is being reported to be a seven-year deal starting at $7.5 million per year and averaging $7.8 million per year. Fickell also has said that he would like to see Leonhard stick around as DC. If that is the case, they are probably going to have to pony up more than the $1.5M they are currently paying Leonhard, to keep him around.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You do realize that they Packers have a bye week coming up after Sunday? I'm not saying go all in on your DC search, but starting it sooner is better than later IMO.

One week off isn't time to conduct a thorough coaching search, just my opinion. Also, coaches don't really take that week as a vacation.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I just searched NFL Coordinators salaries & they range from $1Mil-$4Mil (for the high end/long tenured guys like Josh McDaniels was and Todd Bowles). Jim Leonard made $1.5Mil this past year at Wisconsin... GB would have to throw a lot of $$ at him to get him to leave his comfy-zone at UW & move his family to GB, I'm guessing.

Yeah, but one thing NFL teams have never been accused of is being poor. The main point, for me at least, is that MLF did a terrible job of hiring a DC and, once his first choice was priced out, settled for a guy that everyone knew was a terrible DC. Hopefully the search is a bit more intelligent this time around.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One week off isn't time to conduct a thorough coaching search, just my opinion. Also, coaches don't really take that week as a vacation.

Again, I said if they want to include current college coaches in their search, then now is better than later.

In case you weren't paying attention, The Badgers just hired Luke Fickell away from Cincinnati (Bearcats) and are beginning to hire other coaches. Sorry NFL, but if you want to compete with the NCAA for coaches, you are going to have to find time in your busy season to do so.

 

[Dantés]

DO NOT fire Joe Barry.

I repeat: DO NOT.

The absolute LAST thing this team needs is to light a fire under the defense, win meaningless games, lower their draft position, and stave off the transition from Rodgers to Love.

Let him mislead the team for the remainder of the season.

 

[Dantés]

Again, I said if they want to include current college coaches in their search, then now is better than later.

In case you weren't paying attention, The Badgers just hired Luke Fickell away from Cincinnati (Bearcats) and are beginning to hire other coaches. Sorry NFL, but if you want to compete with the NCAA for coaches, you are going to have to find time in your busy season to do so.

This only makes sense if both NCAA and NFL are drawing from the same talent pool. By and large, though with exceptions, that’s not the case.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Again, I said if they want to include current college coaches in their search, then now is better than later.

In case you weren't paying attention, The Badgers just hired Luke Fickell away from Cincinnati (Bearcats) and are beginning to hire other coaches. Sorry NFL, but if you want to compete with the NCAA for coaches, you are going to have to find time in your busy season to do so.

If that's the case, so be it. I completely understand the distaste for Barry and the desire to replace him immediately. I think we just disagree on the time necessary to conduct a good candidate search. Hopefully your method works and they replace Barry sooner rather than later.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If that's the case, so be it. I completely understand the distaste for Barry and the desire to replace him immediately. I think we just disagree on the time necessary to conduct a good candidate search. Hopefully your method works and they replace Barry sooner rather than later.

I could care less if the new DC starts tomorrow or in the offseason. Although, I do think it would be wiser to let a new DC start working, after the season is up. That has nothing to do with when you make that hire or when you start the process. So for me, it has nothing to do with Barry and everything to do with finding the best replacement possible. If that replacement is currently a college level coach, then sooner, rather than later is the time to start talking to him/her.

Between now and Jan 9th (The CFP National championship Date), there will be a lot of coaching changes at the NCAA level. Some of those changes are already in the works. Not to mention that in the next month, we will begin to see NFL coaches get the axe. If the Packers do as you want them to do and wait until after the season is done (Jan 8th) to start the process of finding a DC, then I am afraid they might have missed the boat.

 

[Team Ronny]

You do realize that they Packers have a bye week coming up after Sunday? I'm not saying go all in on your DC search, but starting it sooner is better than later IMO.

They do alot of self scouting during the bye week..at least most coaching staffs do. I could see where Lafleur may not have much free time..but..he needs to give Gutey a list of guys to interview!

 

[milani]

What I don't like about his comment, is that it seems to absolve Barry from a very obvious problem. By doing so, MLF is basically saying that the defensive issues are all due to the players.

Folks remember when Donnatell got fired for 4th and 26? The defense that season was actually not that bad.