Fire Capers

[Dantés]

This is nonsensical. Every players' end result is a function of both their own talent and the coaching/scheme they're dealt. It is equally ridiculous to say that McCarthy & Co had nothing to do with Rodgers' development as it is to say that they are solely responsible for their elite QB's greatness.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is nonsensical. Every players' end result is a function of both their own talent and the coaching/scheme they're dealt. It is equally ridiculous to say that McCarthy & Co had nothing to do with Rodgers' development as it is to say that they are solely responsible for their elite QB's greatness.

Toss in a little luck (good or bad) as well as circumstances and you get an even more complete picture.

Take a look at all of the 1st round QB's who have failed and later round QB's who have had a lot of success, scouts can't be so wrong on those players that something besides their own innate talents helped them to become a success or a failure.

Brett Favre is a good example of a player that may have completely failed without the right circumstances and coaches. Had he not been traded to Green Bay, he very well could have just gotten lost on the depth chart in Atlanta.

 

[Dantés]

Toss in a little luck (good or bad) as well as circumstances and you get an even more complete picture.

Take a look at all of the 1st round QB's who have failed and later round QB's who have had a lot of success, scouts can't be so wrong on those players that something besides their own innate talents helped them to become a success or a failure.

Brett Favre is a good example of a player that may have completely failed without the right circumstances and coaches. Had he not been traded to Green Bay, he very well could have just gotten lost on the depth chart in Atlanta.

Or even take the "other" QB from Rodgers' class. Alex Smith was perhaps the worst starting QB in the league until he got with Harbaugh and then Reid. Since, he's been solidly average.

 

[Croak]

Ok, how did a thread about Capers and the defense get so off the rails that it is all about Rodgers? There are plenty of threads about Rodgers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ok, how did a thread about Capers and the defense get so off the rails that it is all about Rodgers? There are plenty of threads about Rodgers.

LOL.....Capers, TT, Janis, Rodgers, Pad level.....I begin to forget what thread I am in.

 

[Reese2017]

That's the main reason why we have no Super Bowl playing two DL is a waste of talent no one else in the league plays that bs defense there is a reason it doesn't work please please let the talent play for once Aaron is being cheated and Lowry isn't any good you will see for yourselves when Daniels won lineman challenge you all said how good he was well price won last year and didn't play why I've been saying let talent play not draft status

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's just speculation. I watched Rodgers in college, and McCarthy is not the one responsible for his elite ability.

When talking about the greatest QB s of all time, nobody says, "We have to give credit to the coach for developing him", because that's a load of crap. If you could take a guy and mold him into a great QB that easily, there would be a lot more elite QB s in the league. Instead, they rarely come around, despite all of the coaching in the world being at their disposal in order to get them to that level. He's a special player, and he would be on any team.

In addition to what others already have correctly pointed out the Packers coaching staff completely changed Rodgers throwing motion and footwork after the team drafted him in 2005. While it's true that #12 definitely had the talent necessary to turn into an wlite quarterback it's ridiculous to suggest McCarthy doesn't deserve any credit for developing him.

Without Rodgers, GB looked like the Browns.

While there's some truth to that statement a lack of talent being the main reason for it.

That's the main reason why we have no Super Bowl playing two DL is a waste of talent no one else in the league plays that bs defense there is a reason it doesn't work.

NFL defenses line up in subpackages on more than 70% mostly using only two defensive linemen in those formations. There's no way to successfully comtain offenses using three plus receivers sets while staying with base personnel.

 

[rodell330]

Capers should absolutely not be the D.C. For the Packers. The defense has consistently been a disappointment. How many times can you give up over 30+ points in playoff LOSES?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Capers should absolutely not be the D.C. For the Packers. The defense has consistently been a disappointment. How many times can you give up over 30+ points in playoff LOSES?

2009 Season: Arizona: 51 points
2011 Season: Giants: 37 points
2012 Season: 49'ers: 45 points
2016 Season: Falcons: 44 points

In those loses the Packers scored: 45, 20, 31 and 31 points....average of 31.75 points/game

 

[AmishMafia]

That's the main reason why we have no Super Bowl playing two DL is a waste of talent no one else in the league plays that bs defense there is a reason it doesn't work please please let the talent play for once Aaron is being cheated and Lowry isn't any good you will see for yourselves when Daniels won lineman challenge you all said how good he was well price won last year and didn't play why I've been saying let talent play not draft status

Punctuation is your friend.

 

[AmishMafia]

This is nonsensical. Every players' end result is a function of both their own talent and the coaching/scheme they're dealt. It is equally ridiculous to say that McCarthy & Co had nothing to do with Rodgers' development as it is to say that they are solely responsible for their elite QB's greatness.

Talent and coaching are both necessary. You cannot succeed without talent or without coaching.

Personally I think coaching is more important. Bit so be it.

 

[Dantés]

Talent and coaching are both necessary. You cannot succeed without talent or without coaching.

Personally I think coaching is more important. Bit so be it.

I would say that balance of factors between coaching and talent shifts in terms of importance with each individual player.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Capers should absolutely not be the D.C. For the Packers. The defense has consistently been a disappointment. How many times can you give up over 30+ points in playoff LOSES?

It seems that Murphy doesn't believe Thompson is to blame for the shortcomings on defense while McCarthy trusts Capers to get the maximum out of the talent available, leaving the Packers stuck with a subpar unit.

 

[AmishMafia]

I would say that balance of factors between coaching and talent shifts in terms of importance with each individual player.

Well said.

 

[rodell330]

2009 Season: Arizona: 51 points
2011 Season: Giants: 37 points
2012 Season: 49'ers: 45 points
2016 Season: Falcons: 44 points

In those loses the Packers scored: 45, 20, 31 and 31 points....average of 31.75 points/game

This just ruined my day Haha . Those are some bad performances smh.

 

[rodell330]

If Charles Woodson spoke on how predictable and complex Capers defense was...then that should tell you something.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Charles Woodson spoke on how predictable and complex Capers defense was...then that should tell you something.

Mostly that the front office and coaching staff aren't held acccountable in Green Bay as Woodson was gone not long after his comments while Thompson and Capers are still around more than four years later.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This just ruined my day Haha . Those are some bad performances smh.

Yup, 8 seasons of Capers Defense, 8 seasons in the Playoffs.......1 season a SB and 4 out of the other 7, the defense getting pummeled like they have no clue. Many, if not all, of those seasons we only made the playoffs because of AR and the offense.

I get the argument that some of this is TT's fault, for not providing the Packers with enough talent on the defensive side of the ball. However, the inconsistency of that defense from week to week and even quarter to quarter within a game, has me thinking Capers may be a brilliant defensive mind, but his ability to adjust and get the most out of his players, has to be questioned.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yup, 8 seasons of Capers Defense, 8 seasons in the Playoffs.......1 season a SB and 4 out of the other 7, the defense getting pummeled like they have no clue. Many, if not all, of those seasons we only made the playoffs because of AR and the offense.

I get the argument that some of this is TT's fault, for not providing the Packers with enough talent on the defensive side of the ball. However, the inconsistency of that defense from week to week and even quarter to quarter within a game, has me thinking Capers may be a brilliant defensive mind, but his ability to adjust and get the most out of his players, has to be questioned.

I highly doubt that Capers suddenly forgot how to create a game plan to at least contain opponents in the playoffs over the past six seasons though.

There's no doubt in my mind the defense hasn't had enough talent over the past six seasons to succeed in the postseason although the coaching staff lacking the ability to develop players might be a major reason for it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I highly doubt that Capers suddenly forgot how to create a game plan to at least contain opponents in the playoffs over the past six seasons though.

There's no doubt in my mind the defense hasn't had enough talent over the past six seasons to succeed in the postseason although the coaching staff lacking the ability to develop players might be a major reason for it.

That would also assume he was containing opponents consistently during the regular season as well. No doubt, the Packers defense struggles and often gets torched by a good offense. It's the chicken or the egg question; not enough talent? or coaches who aren't all that great. I would say the Packers have made a "perfect" runny and undercooked chicken omelette on Defense since TT and Capers have been involved.

One game that sticks out clearly in my memory to judge Capers on, the game that probably made Colin Kaepernick his millions.....The 2012 Division Playoff game against the 49'ers. Capers and the Packer defense could not find a way to stop Kap. Put some of it on the lack of talent that the Packers defense possessed that day, but it's the job of the DC to make adjustments and figure out something to stop a guy from having a career day by rushing for 181 yards and passing for another 263. Prior to that game, Kap was averaging 32 rushing yds/game. Capers had absolutely no answers to stop a mediocre QB that day.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That would also assume he was containing opponents consistently during the regular season as well. No doubt, the Packers defense struggles and often gets torched by a good offense. It's the chicken or the egg question; not enough talent? or coaches who aren't all that great. I would say the Packers have made a "perfect" runny and undercooked chicken omelette on Defense since TT and Capers have been involved.

As I've mentioned repeatedly there's no way to fairly evaluate the main reason for the defensive struggles over the past six seasons as long as the Packers hold on to both Thompson and Capers. It's perplexing the team has done that and still expects different results though.

One game that sticks out clearly in my memory to judge Capers on, the game that probably made Colin Kaepernick his millions.....The 2012 Division Playoff game against the 49'ers. Capers and the Packer defense could not find a way to stop Kap. Put some of it on the lack of talent that the Packers defense possessed that day, but it's the job of the DC to make adjustments and figure out something to stop a guy from having a career day by rushing for 181 yards and passing for another 263. Prior to that game, Kap was averaging 32 rushing yds/game. Capers had absolutely no answers to stop a mediocre QB that day.

Capers should have been fired after the 2012 playoff loss at San Francisco as that one was solely on the coaching staff for not being even remotely prepared for the Niners read option offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As I've mentioned repeatedly there's no way to fairly evaluate the main reason for the defensive struggles over the past six seasons as long as the Packers hold on to both Thompson and Capers. It's perplexing the team has done that and still expects different results though.

Oh I agree with you. Much like a bad marriage, you really don't know if it is one or the other partner or just the combination of the two that poisons the relationship. Since I don't see the Packers parting ways with TT, until TT decides when he wants to go, the only logical answer is to show Capers the door. We really don't know if the entire team would be better or worse without TT, but I am not so sure the defense has a lot to lose by firing Capers and going with a new DC. The frustrating part for me, is that Capers has had very limited success for the past 6 seasons and there have been plenty of young up and coming defensive coaches available to hire during that time. Yet, for whatever reason, the Packers seem to be content with throwing a disproportionate amount of draft resources at Capers and getting very little in results.

 

[Dantés]

Well said.

I was thinking of cornerback as a position where this is clearly visible. Take the examples of Patrick Peterson and Josh Norman. Peterson has of course been helped by good defensive coaching, but his talent would likely have made him successful in any reasonable situation. Norman, on the other hand, owes more of his success as a pro to the specific position he's been placed in. The more zone he's allowed to play by his coaching staff, the more productive he is.

 

[PikeBadger]

If Charles Woodson spoke on how predictable and complex Capers defense was...then that should tell you something.

Was the defense predictable and complex in 2010?

 

[rmontro]

It seems that Murphy doesn't believe Thompson is to blame for the shortcomings on defense while McCarthy trusts Capers to get the maximum out of the talent available, leaving the Packers stuck with a subpar unit.

I saw a quote from Billy Beane on TV this morning:
"My job is to get us to the playoffs. What happens after that is f------ luck."

I think a lot of Packers fans buy into that same philosophy. As long as Thompson fields a team that gets into the playoffs every year, they might get lucky and go on a Super Bowl run, like in 2010. Of course, in 2010 they had a pretty good defense. There's some truth to what Beane said, but when a team repeatedly fails to get over the hump with so many chances, odds are there are some weaknesses being exploited.

Mostly that the front office and coaching staff aren't held acccountable in Green Bay as Woodson was gone not long after his comments while Thompson and Capers are still around more than four years later.

Hmm, I would have rather kept Woodson.

I'm not familiar with this quote from Woodson? Anyone have a link or more details? He said Capers defense was complex AND predictable? If so, seems like a bad combination.

I think it's pretty clear that Thompson has failed to properly stock the defense with talent, but I also think that there must be other defensive coaches in the league who could get more out of this bunch than Capers is getting.