Fire Capers

[adambr2]

Randall looked promising early in his rookie season but struggled later that year after teams had some tape on him. Most likely he's best suited to play free safety.

Him and everyone else in our secondary.

 

[Sky King]

Who is this elite player on the Patriots D? Malcolm Butler? Dont'a Hightower? I don't see an elite, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Kuehly, or even a Janoris Jenkins, Harrison Smith or Sean Lee type elite defensive player on that unit and they seemed to do just fine with the talent they have.

Then let's look at from the opposite end of roster depth. The Packers have a dearth of both talent and experience on defense, particularly at CB, and especially for the backups at CB and to some degree at S. There's different degrees of un-elite players, too. And as we all can attest to from witnessing this past season, better depth matters.

Only one man is ultimately responsible for all who are on the roster and that's not the DC.

 

[Sky King]

Randall looked promising early in his rookie season but struggled later that year after teams had some tape on him. Most likely he's best suited to play free safety.

For some other team, hopefully.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For some other team, hopefully.

It's way too early to give up on Randall.

 

[Sky King]

It's way too early to give up on Randall.

I compare Randall to a fairly recent bust, Ahmad Carrol. Carrol was always getting called for PI. At least he was close enough to the receiver to get such calls.

If Randall somehow emerges into a good pick I'll be glad to eat crow. But this is one of the worst looking 1st round picks that I've seen playing in my 50+ years as a fan. He needs to make a whole lot of improvement just to be considered average. Wasted pick, so far.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I compare Randall to a fairly recent bust, Ahmad Carrol. Carrol was always getting called for PI. At least he was close enough to the receiver to get such calls.

If Randall somehow emerges into a good pick I'll be glad to eat crow. But this is one of the worst looking 1st round picks that I've seen playing in my 50+ years as a fan. He needs to make a whole lot of improvement just to be considered average. Wasted pick, so far.

There's no doubt that Randall has to significantly improve to be considered worthy of being a first round pick.

 

[adambr2]

Then let's look at from the opposite end of roster depth. The Packers have a dearth of both talent and experience on defense, particularly at CB, and especially for the backups at CB and to some degree at S. There's different degrees of un-elite players, too. And as we all can attest to from witnessing this past season, better depth matters.

Only one man is ultimately responsible for all who are on the roster and that's not the DC.

Well, with the players I've previously mentioned, I think there's more talent on this D than those who defend Dom recognize. We obviously need more -- I just really disagree with the excuses for Dom that he just doesn't have anything to work with. TT realizes on UDFAs too much, no doubt, but the top half of the D is primarily high picks and free agents like Peppers. Also, contrary to popular belief, we are not the only NFL team that relies on contributions from UDFAs.

We've spent the vast majority of the last 5 drafts investing in our defense, sometimes at the expense of needs on offense. We've spent 30M to acquire Peppers. A lack of improvement on this D definitely isn't from a lack of attention to it.

I don't know if you will find a defense in the NFL with more high draft picks in the lineup. While like I've stated high picks don't always equal results, there is of course a correlation. The higher you're drafted, the higher the expectations. Lower picks, much lower frequency of contributing. So even though this is obvious IMO, I'll put it bluntly: Either Ted Thompson is terrible at finding defensive talent, or Dom Capers and his coaching staff are terrible at working with and developing the defensive talent that they're given to work with.

To back off on my last statement just a bit, I would agree with your previous post that Capers and Thompson have incompatible philosophies. Really this has been brought up for years, and it proves true on the field, and yet we continue with the square peg and round hole approach. So unless Ted changes his stripes this offseason and dedicates it to finding reasonably effective veteran defensive talent, I would expect more of the same results.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well, with the players I've previously mentioned, I think there's more talent on this D than those who defend Dom recognize. We obviously need more -- I just really disagree with the excuses for Dom that he just doesn't have anything to work with. TT realizes on UDFAs too much, no doubt, but the top half of the D is primarily high picks and free agents like Peppers. Also, contrary to popular belief, we are not the only NFL team that relies on contributions from UDFAs.

We've spent the vast majority of the last 5 drafts investing in our defense, sometimes at the expense of needs on offense. We've spent 30M to acquire Peppers. A lack of improvement on this D definitely isn't from a lack of attention to it.

I don't know if you will find a defense in the NFL with more high draft picks in the lineup. While like I've stated high picks don't always equal results, there is of course a correlation. The higher you're drafted, the higher the expectations. Lower picks, much lower frequency of contributing. So even though this is obvious IMO, I'll put it bluntly: Either Ted Thompson is terrible at finding defensive talent, or Dom Capers and his coaching staff are terrible at working with and developing the defensive talent that they're given to work with.

To back off on my last statement just a bit, I would agree with your previous post that Capers and Thompson have incompatible philosophies. Really this has been brought up for years, and it proves true on the field, and yet we continue with the square peg and round hole approach. So unless Ted changes his stripes this offseason and dedicates it to finding reasonably effective veteran defensive talent, I would expect more of the same results.

While Thompson has invested a lot of early draft picks on defense I'm not convinced he has done a good job of finding talented players on that side of the ball.

There's no way of knowing who is mostly to blame for the defensive struggles as long as the Packers hold on to both Thompson and Capers.

 

[Sky King]

...So unless Ted changes his stripes this offseason and dedicates it to finding reasonably effective veteran defensive talent, I would expect more of the same results.

I'm already feeling it.

In addition, there's something else that has soured me a little towards Thompson, in particular, and Murphy (secondarily) because he's Thompson's boss and should be paying attention to the organization's image very closely.

McGinn and Cohen touched on this during their most recent podcast. That is, that the organization has offered no official positive statements or thank-yous after the departure of both Shields and Starks, both of whom have helped this team to win a Super Bowl. That would have been a polite and courteous thing to do. They also did not offer any kind of official statement of well-wishes for their departed quality control coach or former OC.

It's a relatively minor gripe but one that makes the people at the top appear somewhat petty to me. Some fans may not give a crap about this (we've seen a few remarks on the board that would indicate as much) but players and coaches could feel differently. It wouldn't cost a dime or a draft pick to be gracious towards former employees. Doing so should be well-received by anyone in observance, same as it would at any other place of employment. This is just a pet peeve of mine regarding bad administrative form. What Thompson did (not) do makes him look discourteous to me as an administrator. Like I said previously, it's a relatively minor gripe.

Incidentally, Thompson's great verbosity reminds me of Teller (of Penn & Teller fame). Heaven forbid that Thompson should ever answer questions more than once a year, and evasively at that.

 

[ls1bob]

Could the non well wishes for Shields have something to do with the Tweet from HHCD after Shields' release about how they "lined up and played what Dom called whether they liked the play or not"? (His tweet was something to that effect). As someone has posted earlier (many pages ago) that Dom is just out of touch with the younger generation of NFL players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Could the non well wishes for Shields have something to do with the Tweet from HHCD after Shields' release about how they "lined up and played what Dom called whether they liked the play or not"? (His tweet was something to that effect). As someone has posted earlier (many pages ago) that Dom is just out of touch with the younger generation of NFL players.

First of all I don't believe that had anything to do with the organization not well wishing Shields and Starks. In addition Clinton-Dix later clarified that he didn't complain about Capers in an Instagram post.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...inton-dix-takes-twitter-talk-capers/97747636/

 

[Half Empty]

Sure wish we could leave the Instagram/Twitter posts up to teenage girls, where they belong. I know where this is going to go, but since it's a sports forum, I hoped we could contain the fallout.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sure wish we could leave the Instagram/Twitter posts up to teenage girls, where they belong. I know where this is going to go, but since it's a sports forum, I hoped we could contain the fallout.

Snapchat me and we can do each others hair!

I am not active on Instagram/Twitter, but it seems that it has become the way of many, including today's NFL Players. So if fans want all of the "inside stuff", social media has sadly become a source of a lot of "stuff", whether you want to accept it or reject it, is ultimately up to you.

 

[Half Empty]

If only that were the case, I'd be fine. I can 'ignore' that stuff by staying off social media, but then, when the idiots spew without thinking, it shows up places I do frequent, like here.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If only that were the case, I'd be fine. I can 'ignore' that stuff by staying off social media, but then, when the idiots spew without thinking, it shows up places I do frequent, like here.

Agreed, but it won't change and will probably get worse. Social media IS news to some people.

 

[Dantés]

IF it's true that Clinton-Dix was in fact complaining about the defense, it's concerning on a couple levels.

#1 would obviously be that airing out complaints on instagram is bush league and amateur. He needs to keep it inside the building.

#2 would be that the personnel doesn't buy into the system. If they don't believe in Capers, that's not a recipe for success.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If only that were the case, I'd be fine. I can 'ignore' that stuff by staying off social media, but then, when the idiots spew without thinking, it shows up places I do frequent, like here.

Well, whether you like to hear about it or not it wasn't a smart move by Clinton-Dix first seemingly criticizing Capers on Instagram and then throwing his teammates under the bus on Twitter.

NFL players better be aware of the fact that whatever they post on social media platforms will be talked about.

 

[adambr2]

First of all I don't believe that had anything to do with the organization not well wishing Shields and Starks. In addition Clinton-Dix later clarified that he didn't complain about Capers in an Instagram post.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...inton-dix-takes-twitter-talk-capers/97747636/

Agreed with the first part. On the second, he did clarify that, but based on the initial tweet it wouldn't at all surprise me if there is some grumbling among them including himself and once he realized the attention he had drawn he just wanted to do some damage control.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Agreed with the first part. On the second, he did clarify that, but based on the initial tweet it wouldn't at all surprise me if there is some grumbling among them including himself and once he realized the attention he had drawn he just wanted to do some damage control.

I usually believe that most "first tweets" are more along the lines of someones true feelings. Subsequent tweets, as you said, are simply trying to clean up the mess that the first tweet created, intentionally or unintentionally. Lesson here, be careful what you say or do, modern technology has almost completely erased the ability for privacy, especially if you are already in the public spotlight.

 

[Mondio]

Never met an athlete or employee that didn't think they were smarter than the boss at one point or another. It can be an issue, or it can be just one of those things that is inevitable and everyone moves on.

I think if this team wasn't a team with trust among players and coaches, 4-6 would have ended 6-10 rather than the NFCCG.

 

[PikeBadger]

Well, whether you like to hear about it or not it wasn't a smart move by Clinton-Dix first seemingly criticizing Capers on Instagram and then throwing his teammates under the bus on Twitter.

NFL players better be aware of the fact that whatever they post on social media platforms will be talked about.

I think they (players) should put that stuff away for good. There isn't any filters built in for foolish comments.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm already feeling it.

In addition, there's something else that has soured me a little towards Thompson, in particular, and Murphy (secondarily) because he's Thompson's boss and should be paying attention to the organization's image very closely.

McGinn and Cohen touched on this during their most recent podcast. That is, that the organization has offered no official positive statements or thank-yous after the departure of both Shields and Starks, both of whom have helped this team to win a Super Bowl. That would have been a polite and courteous thing to do. They also did not offer any kind of official statement of well-wishes for their departed quality control coach or former OC.

It's a relatively minor gripe but one that makes the people at the top appear somewhat petty to me. Some fans may not give a crap about this (we've seen a few remarks on the board that would indicate as much) but players and coaches could feel differently. It wouldn't cost a dime or a draft pick to be gracious towards former employees. Doing so should be well-received by anyone in observance, same as it would at any other place of employment. This is just a pet peeve of mine regarding bad administrative form. What Thompson did (not) do makes him look discourteous to me as an administrator. Like I said previously, it's a relatively minor gripe.

Incidentally, Thompson's great verbosity reminds me of Teller (of Penn & Teller fame). Heaven forbid that Thompson should ever answer questions more than once a year, and evasively at that.

Lol, that's what makes him such an interesting character imo.

 

[McKnowledge]

Could the non well wishes for Shields have something to do with the Tweet from HHCD after Shields' release about how they "lined up and played what Dom called whether they liked the play or not"? (His tweet was something to that effect). As someone has posted earlier (many pages ago) that Dom is just out of touch with the younger generation of NFL players.

If you are a young player and have proven nothing on the professional level, who the hell are you to question anything related to your duties in regards to your profession? I have no problem with players and social media. But you should use discretion and clarify your thoughts. In this instance, it would've been best to speak directly with the coaching staff.

 

[Half Empty]

If you are a young player and have proven nothing on the professional level, who the hell are you to question anything related to your duties in regards to your profession? I have no problem with players and social media. But you should use discretion and clarify your thoughts. In this instance, it would've been best to speak directly with the coaching staff.

Right up there with Military Intelligence and Jumbo Shrimp as an oxymoron.

 

[PackerDNA]

"You can't fix stupid." - General Russell Honore