Fire Capers

[melvin dangerr]

3rd and short corners still playing 8-10yds off got to get closer and jam more (not hold) jam...

 

[adambr2]

Yup. $4-$5 million is what I was saying earlier. Last year they offered him $8 million and Raji didn't want it. Now, he's going to end up with much less than $8 million per year. And what does that mean? It's the perfect opportunity for the Packers to sign him. He's clearly the best NT on our team right now, so why not sign him for that amount? Some people have said he's worth no more than the minimum, though, and I just don't understand that thinking. Had Raji actually proved it, he likely would've left for $8+ million/year.

His contract this year was for a 1 year deal with a base salary of $3.1M, a signing bonus of $500,000, a $100,000 workout bonus and $300,000 for in-game bonuses which he won't earn a dime of now.

Now he's going to be a year older, a year more removed from an effective season, and coming off a major injury. Why would he be worth more than he was worth last go-around?

I'm not saying he'll get minimum but my guess is IF he's lucky he'll be worth $2M in base salary with some performance based escalators.

Raji isn't comparable at this point in his career to guys like Suh and Fairley IMO, he's not even in their league.

 

[PikeBadger]

His contract this year was for a 1 year deal with a base salary of $3.1M, a signing bonus of $500,000, a $100,000 workout bonus and $300,000 for in-game bonuses which he won't earn a dime of now.

Now he's going to be a year older, a year more removed from an effective season, and coming off a major injury. Why would he be worth more than he was worth last go-around?

I'm not saying he'll get minimum but my guess is IF he's lucky he'll be worth $2M in base salary with some performance based escalators.

Raji isn't comparable at this point in his career to guys like Suh and Fairley IMO, he's not even in their league.

I very much agree with your premise but, can't for the life of me figure out who would offer him 2m plus incentives besides maybe Ted Thompson. I think Raji is very deserving of a league minimum contract. He's EARNED it.

 

[adambr2]

The major thing is that last year's contract did not represent Raji's true value IMO, because he took a smaller contract than he was worth in order to get more in the long run. I highly doubt he'd sign for $2 million unless it was just for 1 year to prove it again, so basically I think that his true value is more that what he got.

IMO that's some pretty extreme speculation.

1) I've never seen anything that confirms that Raji got a better contract offer than what we gave him. It's possible I could be wrong but I've seen nothing. I don't think he took a smaller contract than he was worth in order to get more in the long run. I think he took a smaller contract because the most he could get was that smaller contract. Raji certainly doesn't strike me as the type to leave money on the table. If he wanted to get paid more in the long run, maybe he should have either taken the long-term deal that we offered and then pulled after he stunk up the joint, or actually showed up to play in a contract year. He already had his chance to get paid more in the long run.

2) It's not up to Raji to determine what his true value is or decide whether $2M is enough for him, unless he decides he doesn't want to play football anymore. That's up to the market to decide, and based on his injury and what the market was for him this year, I doubt he'll see a real favorable market.

 

[adambr2]

It was reported that Raji turned down an offer from us at $8 million/year, therefore, that's what the market thought he was worth. It was Raji that determined that wasn't his value.

That was long before his horrendous play last season after which that offer was pulled.

That wasn't his market value as he wasn't on the market, just an estimation by Thompson, and IMO, an overestimation. While we don't know the details of the contract, its certainly one of the biggest overestimations of ones own value for an upcoming FA in NFL history.

That wasn't an option available to him as a free agent on the open market. He certainly didn't opt for a one year 4M prove it deal with a 8M a year multi year deal on the table.

 

[yooperpackfan]

It wasn't that long ago: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...him-long-term-deal-b99143128z1-232226061.html

The article by Bob McGinn is from November 16, 2003:


Also, if you notice, the article states that it was Raji that turned down the offer, not the Packers who pulled the offer. Do you have a source that it was the Packers that pulled the offer?

Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume they pulled the offer since he signed a 1 year deal for cheap.

 

[adambr2]

It wasn't that long ago: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...him-long-term-deal-b99143128z1-232226061.html

The article by Bob McGinn is from November 16, 2003:


Also, if you notice, the article states that it was Raji that turned down the offer, not the Packers who pulled the offer. Do you have a source that it was the Packers that pulled the offer?

Well first off, it's just not logical. Do you really think Raji would take a 1 year deal for $500,000 of guaranteed money and $4M total, if $8M a year and $20M in guarantees was available to him?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...r-short-term-offer-b99219814z1-248939381.html

"After Raji's contract season turned sour, the Packers pulled their offer and determined they would let Raji test his value"

"Raji would only want to sign a one-year deal if he thought the long-term offers he received weren't lucrative enough"

I think this pretty clearly confirms that Raji had no lucrative offers available to him in free agency from us or anyone else. The $4M was what was available to him at the time.

 

[adambr2]

Even your own article states that Raji was offered $8 million per year with $20 million guaranteed. So that was his value. I don't understand why you are disputing this. It was Raji that turned that down, and eventually the Packers pulled it, okay, but midway through last year the Packers had offered that long-term contract.

Because that's no longer his market value. Just because the Packers offered Brad Jones $4M a year and offered Greg Jennings $10M a year at one time and Raji $8M a year ago does not mean they have that value presently.

Presumably, there were 31 other GM's that saw either no interest or no more interest in Raji than the 1/$4M offer that we gave him. He's now 28.

Next year when he hits the FA market he'll be a 29 year old when the season starts. He'll be coming off a terrible 2013 followed by not playing a single down in 2014 because of a major bicep injury.

Why on earth would he expect to get more than what we gave him in March? How would his value have increased since then? How would it have done anything but decrease?

I think if anything, we saw that 1) Thompson really overshot on Raji's potential FA price, and should be grateful that Raji turned it down, and 2) You can really see your value take a nosedive when you play as poorly as Raji played in the second half last year.

 

[adambr2]

Pro Football Focus game-by-game rankings for BJ Raji last year after the Aaron Rodgers injury:

Playoff game vs. 49ers: -1.8 (worst on DL)
Week 17 vs. Bears: -0.2
Week 16 vs. Steelers: -2.7 (worst on defense)
Week 15 vs. Cowboys -0.7
Week 14 vs. Falcons -1.8 (worst on defense)
Week 13 vs. Lions -3.2 (worst on defense)
Week 12 vs. Vikings -3.7 (worst on defense)
Week 11 vs. Giants -2.3 (worst on defense)
Week 10 vs. Eagles -3.7 (worst on DL)

I know PFF isn't the end-all, but this provides a pretty good snapshot that Raji flat out tanked it and gave up when Rodgers went down, and that's not a player I want on my team. He was frequently the worst player on defense. Surprised that your market value can go down by 50% in half a season? That's how horrendous he was, and that's why he didn't draw any interest in March. His market value is what it is because he flat out earned it, and not in a good way.

 

[Einstein McFly]

They couldn't stop the run last year with Raji, and even if he was at his best ever (he did have his best camp ever) it wouldn't matter if he got out of his gaps the way everyone seems to be this year. That used to be how to run on Detroit; let Suh run up the field and cut it back. Now they've fixed that up a bit and it's harder to run against them. Some coach, whether Capers or Trgovac, needs to get them to play smart or we'll lose no matter who is out there. If they can't do that then they should be fire, regardless of how great they are at scheming.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Pro Football Focus game-by-game rankings for BJ Raji last year after the Aaron Rodgers injury:

Playoff game vs. 49ers: -1.8 (worst on DL)
Week 17 vs. Bears: -0.2
Week 16 vs. Steelers: -2.7 (worst on defense)
Week 15 vs. Cowboys -0.7
Week 14 vs. Falcons -1.8 (worst on defense)
Week 13 vs. Lions -3.2 (worst on defense)
Week 12 vs. Vikings -3.7 (worst on defense)
Week 11 vs. Giants -2.3 (worst on defense)
Week 10 vs. Eagles -3.7 (worst on DL)

I know PFF isn't the end-all, but this provides a pretty good snapshot that Raji flat out tanked it and gave up when Rodgers went down, and that's not a player I want on my team. He was frequently the worst player on defense. Surprised that your market value can go down by 50% in half a season? That's how horrendous he was, and that's why he didn't draw any interest in March. His market value is what it is because he flat out earned it, and not in a good way.

No one who watches the games should need PFF to tell them Raji was just taking up space last season, never getting off blocks, never pursuing, zero second effort. It's as though he made the gross miscalculation that if he made business decision after business decision on the field to avoid injury somebody would up the ante on the Packers $8 million.

Unfortunately for him, GMs don't like players who don't try. Except Thompson, evidently, reflecting on fond memories of 2010 with the rationalization he's been out of position, first at 0 tech and then at 5 tech.

 

[adambr2]

I think where we are differing is about the value of this 1-year contract. Contracts aren't just about how much/year a player gets. They are also about length, guaranteed money, structure, protection, etc. To many players, a contract that gives them less money per year for fewer years can be much more valuable than a contract that gives a little more money per year but locks a player up for many years. And how this stuff is valued is mainly dependent on the player.

So why would Raji get more then we paid him last time? Because we get him for more years, big men are hard to come by, and we can pay him like a serviceable player instead of a top starter. Why would Raji take it? Because of his recent production, injury, etc. combination. It's really a win-win IMO.

We know two things: Raji was offered $8 million per year with $20 million guaranteed by the Packers sometime last year, and Raji ended up with a $4 million contract over 1 year that dropped in value due to unearned incentives and didn't have much guaranteed money. We can't really say that Raji's value wasn't more for a long-term contract even in March of last year, so it's not really fair to say that the contract I stated of around $4-$5 million per year over 4 years is less valuable than he was last year as we don't know if Raji was signable for that last year. Judging by the fact that he turned down $8 million a year in a long term deal, it's reasonable to conclude that Raji would choose the small 1-year deal over a long term $4-$5 million per year deal.

I'll say this. I think half of $4-5M a year, will be closer to what Raji can actually get than $4-5M. Either on a 1 year or multi-year, no way he touches $4-5M a year on his next contract.

If I'm wrong I'd be happy to admit it, but I sure hope it won't be from us.

It also does not bother you that he essentially tanked it in the second half? In a contract year? I think that's a HUGE character flag. You really trust him to step up and give us his best if he gets paid?

 

[yooperpackfan]

Well first off, it's just not logical. Do you really think Raji would take a 1 year deal for $500,000 of guaranteed money and $4M total, if $8M a year and $20M in guarantees was available to him?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...r-short-term-offer-b99219814z1-248939381.html



I think this pretty clearly confirms that Raji had no lucrative offers available to him in free agency from us or anyone else. The $4M was what was available to him at the time.

Seriously, anybody that doesn't see the money just wasn't there anymore should take a look at their hole card.

 

[OldSchool101]

I am not saying TT would do it. I am saying he could. Most expect the cap to get raised to 140 mill next year. If you get rid of Hawk and Jones and add current money that would roll from 2014 we would have about 34 million in cap space for 2015. After 2015 the Peppers contract gets real "cap friendly" so Suh could be structured accordingly.

Granite you got Cobb, Bulaga, House, Lattimore, Raji, Tramon(who I think will be gone) to consider plus extending some current players. TT will have money again this off-season to go after someone if he chooses.

I look at it like this. Aaron Rodgers is 30 so it's time now to get aggressive and get some Super Bowls.

I was just thinking the same thing. We need to get a D while our O is rolling. If we just had a top 15. We'd go 12-4

 

[brandon2348]

I was just thinking the same thing. We need to get a D while our O is rolling. If we just had a top 15. We'd go 12-4

I still think we can go 12-4(maybe better) but it wont be because of our front 7 or run D being dominant.

 

[OldSchool101]

I

I still think we can go 12-4(maybe better) but it wont be because of our front 7 or run D being dominant.

I appreciate your optimism. Id rather be 10-6 and fundamentally solid all around than a shell just waiting to crack when we play a legit contender InThe playoffs

 

[Poppa San]

OKay, I waited 8 weeks this season to dig this up. ALL the issues of the past several seasons have been on display the past several games. It just hasn't gotten fixed. I am just really annoyed with the holes in the middle of the defense because the MLB's are rushing to get pressure and the DB's are trailing the receivers so they don't get beat deep. Teams seem to do better on 3rd and long than they do on 3&short. Nickel defense just ain't cutting it vs better teams.

 

[PFanCan]

OKay, I waited 8 weeks this season to dig this up. ALL the issues of the past several seasons have been on display the past several games. It just hasn't gotten fixed. I am just really annoyed with the holes in the middle of the defense because the MLB's are rushing to get pressure and the DB's are trailing the receivers so they don't get beat deep. Teams seem to do better on 3rd and long than they do on 3&short. Nickel defense just ain't cutting it vs better teams.

We don't jam the receivers like every team does against us. I miss Al Harris.

 

[Carl]

We don't jam the receivers like every team does against us. I miss Al Harris.

Goodson tried on the TD he gave up. Not as simple as just jamming more WRs.

 

[gonzozab]

Capers should've been gone three years ago. Unfortunately it's going to take a Bostick-like play on defense to get him fired.

 

[Croak]

We haven't had a "shut down" defense for quite a while, in my opinion.

 

[PackerFanLV]

im a caper fan and backer but its hard watching this defense over the years be so bad. Maybe we need a change maybe times has passed him.

 

[Mondio]

We haven't had a "shut down" defense for quite a while, in my opinion.

I bet if we could swap out Clinton Dix for a healthy Nick Collins everyone would be saying something completely different.

 

[azrsx05]

We have given over 1400 yards in 3 games and this fool still has a job. It's not just this season. He's been crap for the past few years and continues to be employed. I know if i was a leader at my company and my team continued to underperformed I would not have a job anymore.

For an organization that prides itself on being champions an expecting excellence. They sure have accepted his mediocrity for years. Do something about it Mccarthy or Thompson. Fire this idiot please!!!

 

[Lakekab]

Capers was a good coach 20 years ago, but the game has past him by. McCarthy never was good, he's been riding Rodgers.