Fire Capers

[Raptorman]

Raptorman, the Jets offense started their first possession inside the Packers 20 yard line. The Packers Defense played back on their heals for the next two drives before stiffening and holding the New York Jets to 3 points for the rest of the way. Against Seattle yes the Seahawks put up 31 points. Sixteen of those points came off of Offensive blunders including an interception and a sack fumble safety. The Packer defense hasn't been great thus far, but it's production has been marred by poor and sloppy play from the Offense.

Other than the TD that was called back because of a bonehead Time out. The 16 yard drive, I'll give you that was a tough one. But I still don't see anything major that has changed. Daniels, seems to be better, but he loss of Raji will effect the line all year. I don't think Guion will do near as good of job. Packers defense gave up a lot of PPG last year. Either the Jets got that much better, or the Packer D hasn't made any improvements. Sorry, that' what I see.

And what I see has nothing to do with me being a Vikings fan for those of you who choose to go down that route. If I am so wrong, why is thread even being discussed?

 

[easyk83]

Other than the TD that was called back because of a bonehead Time out. The 16 yard drive, I'll give you that was a tough one. But I still don't see anything major that has changed. Daniels, seems to be better, but he loss of Raji will effect the line all year. I don't think Guion will do near as good of job. Packers defense gave up a lot of PPG last year. Either the Jets got that much better, or the Packer D hasn't made any improvements. Sorry, that' what I see.

And what I see has nothing to do with me being a Vikings fan for those of you who choose to go down that route. If I am so wrong, why is thread even being discussed?

Yes and during that play Ha Ha Clinton Dix was too slow reacting to the deep routes and failed to get over in time. A veteran safety likely gets there first and makes a play on the ball or legally gets in the way. I have more confidence in Ha Ha's ability to improve his game over the season than Dr. Jennings. I will criticize Capers for that call though he got way too cute, should have just gone vanilla and rushed his best pass rushers against Geno, Daniels was dropping into coverage and Matthews wasn't even on the field.

 

[JBlood]

Raptorman is correct. We're a finesse team on both sides of the ball. We don't dominate the LOS on either side of the ball. I think this game is what to expect the rest of the year. We'll need to score 30+ a game to win against most teams; and it will be the passing game that will do it--IF we do it.

BTW, it looks like the Seahawks are beatable.

 

[Ceodore]

Let's do it. My body is ready. I really don't think the defense can get markedly worse. Let's have a change of scenery.

 

[adambr2]

Other than the TD that was called back because of a bonehead Time out. The 16 yard drive, I'll give you that was a tough one. But I still don't see anything major that has changed. Daniels, seems to be better, but he loss of Raji will effect the line all year. I don't think Guion will do near as good of job. Packers defense gave up a lot of PPG last year. Either the Jets got that much better, or the Packer D hasn't made any improvements. Sorry, that' what I see.

And what I see has nothing to do with me being a Vikings fan for those of you who choose to go down that route. If I am so wrong, why is thread even being discussed?

A large sack of potatoes could trip the ball carrier at least once a game and be exactly as productive as Raji was last year.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong because you'r'e a Viking fan or anything like that, but I don't think you fully realize exactly how bad BJ Raji was last year. He's been riding the coattails of his 2010 reputation and name.

It's hard to evaluate yesterday's game because the two halves were so different. If you go by the 2nd half Packer defense, they'll be fine. If you go by the first half, they're in trouble. They only gave up 3 YPC on the ground yesterday, I would certainly take that any game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

A large sack of potatoes could trip the ball carrier at least once a game and be exactly as productive as Raji was last year.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong because you'r'e a Viking fan or anything like that, but I don't think you fully realize exactly how bad BJ Raji was last year. He's been riding the coattails of his 2010 reputation and name.

It's hard to evaluate yesterday's game because the two halves were so different. If you go by the 2nd half Packer defense, they'll be fine. If you go by the first half, they're in trouble. They only gave up 3 YPC on the ground yesterday, I would certainly take that any game.

Guion had another bad game yesterday and I really wonder why the team activated Pennel when not planning on playing him for a single down. Once again, I would like to see what the big guy can do at NT as he´s a wide body just like Raji.

 

[adambr2]

Guion had another bad game yesterday and I really wonder why the team activated Pennel when not planning on playing him for a single down. Once again, I would like to see what the big guy can do at NT as he´s a wide body just like Raji.

Agreed, we have nothing to lose by playing Pennel. Guion is pretty much as advertised. A big bench body. There's a reason he was so cheap. He's not ideal starting material.

 

[easyk83]

Guion had another bad game yesterday and I really wonder why the team activated Pennel when not planning on playing him for a single down. Once again, I would like to see what the big guy can do at NT as he´s a wide body just like Raji.

I didn't pay much attention to him, I thought he played alright? We did hold their backs to less than 3 ypc between Johnson and Ivory so I would assume that our interior Rush D played up to snuff and when I did see Guion he seemed to be holding his position. Again I could be mistaken.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I didn't pay much attention to him, I thought he played alright? We did hold their backs to less than 3 ypc between Johnson and Ivory so I would assume that our interior Rush D played up to snuff and when I did see Guion he seemed to be holding his position. Again I could be mistaken.

Taking a closer look at the Jets rushing stats it seems like he did alright vs. the run (45 yards combined on 16 runs - 2.8 avg. - when rushing between the center and the guards).

 

[easyk83]

Taking a closer look at the Jets rushing stats it seems like he did alright vs. the run (45 yards combined on 16 runs - 2.8 avg. - when rushing between the center and the guards).

But that's the pickle, how many snaps did he get inside? I noticed Mike Daniels inside quite a bit and on the drive summary Josh Boyd's name comes up a few times on those short stops. Hard to tell without rewatching the game and paying close attention to who's inside.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But that's the pickle, how many snaps did he get inside? I noticed Mike Daniels inside quite a bit and on the drive summary Josh Boyd's name comes up a few times on those short stops. Hard to tell without rewatching the game and paying close attention to who's inside.

According to PFF Guion played 39 of 71 snaps, 22 vs. the run and 17 vs. the pass. I agree with you though that it´s tough to judge his performance without rewatching the game, maybe I´ll be able to do it tomorrow.

 

[easyk83]

According to PFF Guion played 39 of 71 snaps, 22 vs. the run and 17 vs. the pass. I agree with you though that it´s tough to judge his performance without rewatching the game, maybe I´ll be able to do it tomorrow.

If you do I'll look forward to reading your take. Just remember to handicap Guion before hand. Against Nick Mangold, if your name isn't Vince Willfork, a level of play at mediocre or above should be graded a success.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you do I'll look forward to reading your take. Just remember to handicap Guion before hand. Against Nick Mangold, if your name isn't Vince Willfork, a level of play at mediocre or above should be graded a success.

I´ll take that into consideration.

 

[adambr2]

For those curious, Daniels unsurprisingly graded out as our best defensive player yesterday at +5.1. Then Peppers at +3.9. Lattimore also graded out quite well.

The worst ratings were Guion at -1.5, Boyd at -1.3, and Clinton-Dix at -1.1.

 

[easyk83]

According to PFF last week, House had a negative ST's rating. How do you create a fumble that the team recovers and still end up with a negative rating? I've never been a huge fan of PFF but I didn't mind when it was used from time to time as long as it wasn't a conversation ender. (People forget that it's a subjective rating and nothing more than then the opinion of the rater. It's subjective objectivity.) After that, it's been hard for me to take PFF seriously at all.

I do think the defense saw a big upgrade from B. Jones to Lattimore, though.

Because PFF uses subjective criteria to develop an allegedly objective result. Some internet geeks love to toss out PFF numbers. More prudent fans roll their eyes whenever PFF is brought up.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Because PFF uses subjective criteria to develop an allegedly objective result. Some internet geeks love to toss out PFF numbers. More prudent fans roll their eyes whenever PFF is brought up.

I don't put a lot of emphasis on their grades but they offer a lot of stats which you can't find anywhere else.

 

[brandon2348]

PFF is off a lot IMO.

I think yesterday in San Diego vs Seattle game showed a perfect example of how an efficient offense makes for a pretty good defense.

IMO our defense is going to be good enough. The offense just needs to continue to be more efficient. I really hope Bulaga can come back and stay healthy. Our offense can play that type of game.

 

[JBlood]

PFF is off a lot IMO.

I think yesterday in San Diego vs Seattle game showed a perfect example of how an efficient offense makes for a pretty good defense.

IMO our defense is going to be good enough. The offense just needs to continue to be more efficient. I really hope Bulaga can come back and stay healthy. Our offense can play that type of game.

Brandon, I love your optimism. I used to have it, but the last 3 years of Dom's defenses and the start of this one makes me very, very pessimistic. And we don't have a ball control offense that can eat up the clock like San Diego did yesterday. For that, you need an offensive line that dominates both passing and running downs. We won a game yesterday playing good football for the last 31 minutes. That won't be good enough for the majority of games.

 

[Einstein McFly]

Because PFF uses subjective criteria to develop an allegedly objective result. Some internet geeks love to toss out PFF numbers. More prudent fans roll their eyes whenever PFF is brought up.

Quoted for truth.

 

[brandon2348]

Brandon, I love your optimism. I used to have it, but the last 3 years of Dom's defenses and the start of this one makes me very, very pessimistic. And we don't have a ball control offense that can eat up the clock like San Diego did yesterday. For that, you need an offensive line that dominates both passing and running downs. We won a game yesterday playing good football for the last 31 minutes. That won't be good enough for the majority of games.

I agree. We were fortunate to win that game yesterday. You gotta win some that way. I just think the offense can play better. I think Bulaga makes a huge difference at right tackle over Sherrod. Like a game changing difference. IMO it allows McCarthy to open up the play book a lot more. Sherrod is less then adequate at pass blocking and his run blocking is horrible at this point.

San Diego running backs only averaged 3.2 yards a carry yesterday. What they did is kept 3rd down manageable and converted. They forced the Seahawks out of there zone defense and played the "whole field". I am not trying to re-visit the Seahawk game all over again but up until Bulaga got hurt our offensive line was delivering some physicality.

I also like what Devante Adams did yesterday and hopefully we will see some growth from Richard Rodgers as well. I know I am being optimistic and obviously a huge Packer fan but I think we haven't seen even close to what this offense has the potential to be.

 

[brandon2348]

I agree. We were fortunate to win that game yesterday. You gotta win some that way. I just think the offense can play better. I think Bulaga makes a huge difference at right tackle over Sherrod. Like a game changing difference. IMO it allows McCarthy to open up the play book a lot more. Sherrod is less then adequate at pass blocking and his run blocking is horrible at this point.

San Diego running backs only averaged 3.2 yards a carry yesterday. What they did is kept 3rd down manageable and converted. They forced the Seahawks out of there zone defense and played the "whole field". I am not trying to re-visit the Seahawk game all over again but up until Bulaga got hurt our offensive line was delivering some physicality.

I also like what Devante Adams did yesterday and hopefully we will see some growth from Richard Rodgers as well. I know I am being optimistic and obviously a huge Packer fan but I think we haven't seen even close to what this offense has the potential to be.

My point is that if the offense can jump up on other teams we will force them into having to pass and out of there rhythm. The defense is set up pretty well to defend the pass and rush the QB.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Want and outsiders perspective of the Packers Defense? To bad you are going to get it anyway. I don't see any major changes to what they did last year. They are giving up to many points and to many yards. Now, granted, week one was the Seahawks in Seattle. But this week, the first half? Holy crap. The Jet's marched down the field 3 times before the Packers defense even started slowing them down. They can't do that next week. They can't do it against the Patriots, or several other teams they play. Rodgers is not going to be able to put up 31 points every game to win. They keep this up the Packers will be at best an 8-8 team.

There is a lot of ragged, up-and-down football played across the league during the first two or three weeks. It happens every year. I would point to starters getting limited action in preseason as the main culprit. In the case of the Packers, they're running new defensive looks that have not even seen preseason snaps, an approach I do not agree with by the way.

That's not to say I expect elite defensive play out of this squad. What it does say is that putting a lot of weight on the first 6 halves of football is probably a mistake.

 

[brandon2348]

There is a lot of ragged, up-and-down football played across the league during the first two or three weeks. It happens every year. I would point to starters getting limited action in preseason as the main culprit. In the case of the Packers, they're running new defensive looks that have not even seen preseason snaps, an approach I do not agree with by the way.

That's not to say I expect elite defensive play out of this squad. What it does say is that putting a lot of weight on the first 6 halves of football is probably a mistake.

Eactly, I have endured the last few years of bad defense as everyone else but it is way to early to "fire Capers" or jump off a cliff on our D this season. My god, Seattle's D just got shredded and there not freaking out. I think everyone is just frustrated as am I and like yourself I do not not expect this defense to be elite. I do expect them to be better and I already can tell were gonna be better in our safety play. That was a huge problem last year.

How much better overall only time will tell. Detroit will be another good test this week.

 

[brandon2348]

Hey if our D was playing like the Saints right now I would be freaking out.

 

[brandon2348]

I think this is where the difference between many of us lies. Some people look at each year as a new year. I look at this defense as a continuation of the last few years. I'm not going to give Capers the benefit of the doubt or even a blank slate anymore. For me, he now has to do something to show this defense is improved. Going from the low 20's to the mid-teens won't do it for me. He needs to create a Top 10 defense AT LEAST or get fired. He has done that to himself with poor defenses over many years.

Well I am focusing on this season. I think with the offense playing at it's potential that the D can be middle of the road and we can still make a run at it.

Overall, I am tired of Capers 3-4 hybrid blah blah blah just as much as anyone else. I mean when it breaks down it is an ugly thing to witness. If they were gonna get rid of him then they needed to do it after last season. It would be a disaster to fire him now. All we can do is hope for the best.

To be fair to him the last half of the game the D gave the offense a shot to get back in the game. In the Seattle game they didn't quite and if Brad Jones doesn't commit holding a couple times there off the field.