Actually, I have a feeling no one's getting fired this year. Because once again, injuries will be the excuse. I know Rodgers doesn't play defense, but they will say he is the team leader, and the offense affects the defense, etc. At this rate, we may have to wait for Capers to retire. Maybe we should all pitch in and buy him a nice watch.
Fire Capers
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Cheesehead
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Hey, I'm flexible. What would you prefer we complain about?
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HardRightEdge
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"Bongos" was intended to be a humerous reference to Occupy Wall Street drum circles. That was a half arsed stoner thing. Blues guitar would be more appropriate. Like Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil down at the crossroads, perhaps Capers could be persuaded to sell his for a new defensive system.
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During the time Capers has been DC, we’ve drafted 2 defensive players in the top 10 (Hawk and Raji). Almost every year but those 2 we’ve drafted well in to the back half of every round. We also picked up Woodson and Pickett in free agency. With all that in mind, Capers’ defenses ranking 14th and 15th in scoring and yards really doesn’t seem out of line to me. My biggest complaints are poor tackling and the ability to get off the field on third down resulting in few punts and chronically poor field position.
Raptorman
Vikings fan since 1966.
Well if your happy..........
Green Bays first and second round defensive picks since Capers came to Green Bay.
Code:
2009 1 B.J. Raji 9
2009 1 Clay Matthews 26
2010 2 Mike Neal 56
2012 1 Nick Perry 28
2012 2 Jerel Worthy 51
2012 2 Casey Hayward 62
2013 1 Datone Jones 26
2014 1 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix 21
2015 2 Quinten Rollins 62
2016 1 Kenny Clark 27
2017 2 Kevin King 33
2017 2 Josh Jones 61Vikings first and second round picks on defense the same period.
Code:
2010 2 Chris Cook 34
2012 1 Harrison Smith 29
2013 1 Sharrif Floyd 23
2013 1 Xavier Rhodes 25
2014 1 Anthony Barr 9
2015 1 Trae Waynes 11
2015 2 Eric Kendricks 45
2016 2 Mackensie Alexander 54No doubt the Vikings have done much better on defense with much fewer picks. The Vikings have had a little better position but it's not insanely different. Just 2 picks in the top 22 and none in the top 8.
We have invested very heavily in the defense in the draft. At times we've had to neglect offense to do it. It would be nice to be able to go get an elite receiving talent or potential top RB early in the draft but with our defense being a problem year after year we generally just cannot afford to.
As I have said before, after this many years, we either have a scouting problem with finding defensive talent, or we have a coaching/coordinator problem with developing and using defensive talent. It literally cannot be neither.
While I am sure there is blame on both sides, I tend to believe that the blame is more on the coaching side. I believe that Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark are talented. I believe Blake Martinez is talented. I believe Clay Matthews and Nick Perry are very good OLBs and that Ahmed Brooks was a great depth addition. I believe our safeties in HHCD and Burnett are perfectly competent. I believe King and Jones have some nice upside.
I have a hard time understanding why that isn't enough talent to have at least a somewhat successful defense. I don't believe they are asking Capers to work miracles here.
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Didn’t say I was happy, did I? I said the rankings aren’t really out of line considering where we pick.
Minnesota has done a great job of finding defensive talent and coaching it up and producing a very good finished product.
You also forgot to include Demarious Randall as a 1st round pick. Was it 27th?
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Intentionally or unintentionally, you left Damarious Randall off the list. Since he hasn't provided much of anything, I am ok with this.
The question isn't just draft position or coaching, but also draft evaluation. I think if you go down that list of Packers, using hindsight of course, you will find several reasons to say that whoever is evaluating defensive talent in the draft for the Packers, isn't doing a very good job, in comparison to the Vikings especially.
Usually you'll find me agreeing with your summaries. But, honestly, I don't recognize most of those names. They're not exactly "print worthy".
D
Deleted member 6794
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It could be a matter of a lack of successful talent evaluation as well though.
Let Capers go and back to 4-3 please. This defense is neither fish nor flesh. Pressure with D-Line only and LB's back to help in coverage, or better like the Harris/Woodson-Era CB's playing man to man and fill the box.
Dom Capers was never as good as LeBeau in the 3-4 or Kiffin in the 4-3. With a better D the Pack could have had 4 Rings in the Rodgers-Era.
Dom Capers was never as good as LeBeau in the 3-4 or Kiffin in the 4-3. With a better D the Pack could have had 4 Rings in the Rodgers-Era.
Sunshinepacker
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I'm not sure I follow this logic. Wouldn't Rodgers' injury reveal the incompetence of the offensive staff? Rodgers is a great player but I'm not sure he's a great defensive factor.
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Yet the one ring the Packers do have is mainly because of the defense. I defend Capers mainly because the criticism of him is so over-the-top and for some reason people prefer to blame him while ignoring the mediocre offensive coaching...it's like one side of the ball had a great player to hide behind or something
Sunshinepacker
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I kind of think the numerous wasted draft picks on defense might have a bigger role. I somehow doubt Capers is a bigger detriment than wasting picks on Jones, Randall, Rollins, Worthy...do I really need to go on? I mean, even Perry should really be considered a bad pick because the team got basically nothing out of him on his rookie deal, his production has pretty much come as what amounts to a free agent.
Unless you think coaches are more important than players. If so, then I'm sure you can give numerous examples of great defensive coaches who succeeded with basically no elite talent.
How many last minute drives has Rodgers had to do to bail out this team? When the defense has gone in OT first this team usually loses. When Rodgers goes first they win. Rodgers creates long drives to keep the defense on the bench. When this defense is getting blown out he is able to keep pace. Although he doesn't play defense,his play certainly affects how this defense will perform. Less we see of them on the field the better.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
How can you NOT put the blame on the defense? Whether it's Capers or TT not giving Capers the right guys. The Packers defense hasn't been very good for a long time. You mention the one ring the Packers have is mainly due to the defense? The offense wasn't good that year? How many rings would the Packers have since 2010 had the defense been good?
D
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The Packers currently don't have the right personnel to switch to a 4-3 and might squander even more seasons of Rodgers' prime by changing the scheme.
Rodgers and the offense keeping the defense off the field is a huge factor though.
PackAttack12
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Mainly???? I get that the defense was really good that year but give me a break. Mainly? As if we didn't have a future hall of famer behind center?
Of course he is. The most successful way to play defense.. is to not have to play as much... keeping the other team's offense off the field by sustaining offensive drives, and keeping the other team's offense one dimensional by making them chase the score is a tremendous help to a defense.
They help each other. Rodgers puts tremendous pressure on the opposing offense. A lot of times causing them to open up their playbook, which usually results in more yards, but in theory (at least I think this is their philosophy) is that it opens up opportunities for turnovers. it hasn't been great at that recently. Yards and FG's I believe were traded for TO opportunities to give the ball back to our offense in the past. I think that has to change. I might be completely wrong too 
Sunshinepacker
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That's not a direct defensive play. The contention that Rodgers helps Capers is vastly overstated. Yeah, obviously having the best QB in the NFL is helpful for a team, stating that he's been covering for the defensive coordinator is a bit of a stretch.
Sunshinepacker
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Mainly???? I get that the defense was really good that year but give me a break. Mainly? As if we didn't have a future hall of famer behind center?
Yeah, the defense was the strongest part of the team in 2010. Rodgers had a nice season in 2010 but certainly not his best (15 games, 28 TDs and 11 INTs). So save the laughing face for actually ridiculous commentary....
Sunshinepacker
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A factor, not a huge factor. I think the difference might just be in phrasing. When you say huge factor, I think, "JJ Watt is a huge factor in a great defense." Rodgers helps the whole team, but he's not a huge factor for the defense.
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