FA: Mason Crosby Edition

[HardRightEdge]

[

It depends on what kind of market he has. If there is enough competition that they have to lock him up for 2-3 years, then I'd pass. If he can be brought back on a one year deal that allows the Packers to move on if a drafted and/or signed kicker beats him out in camp, then I'd be all for bringing him in as a safety net.

You could sign him for more than one year and still cut him. It's not the years so much the years as the signing bonus or other guarantees.

 

[Dantés]

[
You could sign him for more than one year and still cut him. It's not the years so much as the signing bonus or other guarantees.

Of course. But it would be unusual for a guy of Crosby's caliber to sign a multi-year contract with zero dead money attached to the first season.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Of course. But it would be unusual for a guy of Crosby's caliber to sign a multi-year contract with zero dead money attached to the first season.

I mentioned that only because you raised the possibility of signing him to a 1 year contract with no strings attached. It could be 2 years with minimal strings. We see marginal positional vets signed all the time to 2 year deals with small signing bonues as a gesture of good faith together with a little more up front cash.

For me, the bottom line is that Crosby, like all but a few kickers, yo-yo's from year to year. Coming off a 90+% year, his stock is likely to be high with an equally strong likelihood he will not repeat that performance and earn that pay. That looks like a buy high, sell low proposition.

I was a proponent last season of keeping him. I've come to reevaluate the importance of special teams other than coverage teams, kickers included, in light of a variety of factors. I would not pay him what would normally be associated with a 90+% kicker. I am less confident Gutekunst would agree.

Somebody suggested Crosby should take a loyalty discount given how the team stuck with him when they shouldn't have. I would not hold my breath on that either.

 

[Pugger]

Wife had cancer

Sister in law passed away

He won 2 games vs det this year

I believe statistically his best season ever this year

I would re sign him

Gute in his post season presser said Crosby can play for us as long as he wants to.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gute in his post season presser said Crosby can play for us as long as he wants to.

Oh! He handed him a blank check, I suppose, with signatures dry on a double secret extension. All Crosby has to do is fill in the amounts.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm ok with a year to year approach with Crosby. Obviously no sign of decline this year. I think sign a camp leg to compete with him every offseason and until he slows down he's a Packer IMO.

Disagree. He has earned the right to some peace of mind. Maybe bring in a body every couple years but not every year. Sign him up for 5. He's 35. No reason he can't kick at least another 7 or 8 years if he stays relatively injury free, which he has to this point in his career. He's a great bad weather kicker and those are hard to find.

 

[AKCheese]

Depends on what he demands in guarantee d money. If he wants too much I’d rather see that money go towards a weapon that can extend drives and get closer. People who think he’ll leave significant up front money on the table to stay in Green Bay are delusional. Would YOU turn down millions to stay at your current job? That’s what this is folks... it’s a J-O-B.

 

[mongoosev]

4 yrs 10 mil. 1.5mil guarantee 500g signing bonus.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gute in his post season presser said Crosby can play for us as long as he wants to.

I went and listened to that press conference not believing a GM would say such a thing about any player.

As I expected, you misquoted Gutekunst. He said, "Mason is going to kick for quite a while longer if he wants to. We'd certainly love to have him back."

That takes us back to square one. What will he ask for and what will the Packers offer?

There wasn't much said in that presser that we did not already know. The one thing that caught my ear is the question about the ILB position. Gutekunst said, "Obviously, Blake Martinez is up and we have to take a long look at that situation to make sure we're squared away there". Period, end of story, then he pivoted back to D-Line.

Gutekunst had a good word to say about every player mentioned by name, even Burks and Jackson. Martinez was the exception. If I was going to read between any lines, which is always an iffy proposition, it would be that either (1) Martinez is asking for too much money or (2) Gutekunst is moving on regardless. Asked if speed is a priority at the ILB position, Gutekunst offered an unqualified "yes". It adds up to my expectation that Martinez will hit the market and once that happens I would not expect him back.

 

[HardRightEdge]

4 yrs 10 mil. 1.5mil guarantee 500g signing bonus.

Fine by me. You can get out after 1 year with little dead cap if he yo-yo's back to a 66% season or whatever than number was. Ask Crosby and if he's OK with it we can draw up the papers.

 

[OldSchool101]

I’d resign him to a 3year deal with an “easy-out” in 2022. He’s proven he’s still got game.
Plus, as a bonus, he’s just a good dude.

The disparity in many Kickers salaries is minuscule in comparison to most positions. I’d offer him close enough to 4M annual that he wouldn’t up and leave for an additional 500k offer elsewhere etc..
3 year/11,700,000 (3.9M annual)

 

[Pugger]

I went and listened to that press conference not believing a GM would say such a thing about any player.

As I expected, you misquoted Gutekunst. He said, "Mason is going to kick for quite a while longer if he wants to. We'd certainly love to have him back."

That takes us back to square one. What will he ask for and what will the Packers offer?

There wasn't much said in that presser that we did not already know. The one thing that caught my ear is the question about the ILB position. Gutekunst said, "Obviously, Blake Martinez is up and we have to take a long look at that situation to make sure we're squared away there". Period, end of story, then he pivoted back to D-Line.

Gutekunst had a good word to say about every player mentioned by name, even Burks and Jackson. Martinez was the exception. If I was going to read between any lines, which is always an iffy proposition, it would be that either (1) Martinez is asking for too much money or (2) Gutekunst is moving on regardless. Asked if speed is a priority at the ILB position, Gutekunst offered an unqualified "yes". It adds up to my expectation that Martinez will hit the market and once that happens I would not expect him back.

I didn't quote him. I just typed what his statement sounded like to me.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Yup, he only cost the Jets $495K,

I`ll bet he really struggled to make ends meet on THAT salary.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I`ll bet he really struggled to make ends meet on THAT salary.

Yup, you nailed my one big pet peeve with many Sports, "he only got paid
X Million".....makes my stomach turn.

 

[longtimefan]

Yup, you nailed my one big pet peeve with many Sports, "he only got paid
X Million".....makes my stomach turn.

Not that makes it any real difference.

But even if they get one million..taxes have to be paid then his agents or a agents

I'd still love that issue

 

[tynimiller]

Gutekunst had a good word to say about every player mentioned by name, even Burks and Jackson. Martinez was the exception. If I was going to read between any lines, which is always an iffy proposition, it would be that either (1) Martinez is asking for too much money or (2) Gutekunst is moving on regardless. Asked if speed is a priority at the ILB position, Gutekunst offered an unqualified "yes". It adds up to my expectation that Martinez will hit the market and once that happens I would not expect him back.

I think Gute and honestly many of us even that are critical of Blake hate the truth of the matter of seeing him walk out the door. Here is a guy, that has come in from the mid rounds of a draft and instantly provided stability and knowledge from nearly day 1. His IQ and his drive are his two biggest positives, I just wish God had touched his physical abilities a touch more because if he had I foresee Blake as the type of guy that will pick up his lunch pale loyally for an organization for years.

It is tough seeing those types of guys walk out the door, knowing full well it is what is best for the team. IF he wasn't going to garner so much in FA, he 100% would be in the team's plans for the future...however the way our scheme shoveled so many tackles to him and to be fair how well he does tackle his stats alone priced us out of the market on him given his inability speed/coverage wise.

It is refreshing to have a GM that is a little more transparent and less "politician" on things as well. Sure no direct answers were given on Bulaga or Crosby and such, but he is much more free with thoughts and such than most. Quite refreshing, his whole approach to the organization has been the perfect mix of knew while remembering aspects of the old that were good.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think Gute and honestly many of us even that are critical of Blake hate the truth of the matter of seeing him walk out the door. Here is a guy, that has come in from the mid rounds of a draft and instantly provided stability and knowledge from nearly day 1. His IQ and his drive are his two biggest positives, I just wish God had touched his physical abilities a touch more because if he had I foresee Blake as the type of guy that will pick up his lunch pale loyally for an organization for years.

It is tough seeing those types of guys walk out the door, knowing full well it is what is best for the team. IF he wasn't going to garner so much in FA, he 100% would be in the team's plans for the future...however the way our scheme shoveled so many tackles to him and to be fair how well he does tackle his stats alone priced us out of the market on him given his inability speed/coverage wise.

It is refreshing to have a GM that is a little more transparent and less "politician" on things as well. Sure no direct answers were given on Bulaga or Crosby and such, but he is much more free with thoughts and such than most. Quite refreshing, his whole approach to the organization has been the perfect mix of knew while remembering aspects of the old that were good.

I'm diametrically opposed to most of that.

I don't see a higher than average football IQ in Martinez, as noted previously. The learning curve is steep for ILBs stepping in from college to facing pro style offenses and he's struggled to keep up. Let me count the ways:

• According to one report, his signal calling was taken away in his second season, given first to Clinton-Dix and then Burnett who moved into the box in a hybrid ILB role.

• It took him into year 3 before he started to look less clueless in zone coverage.

• He guesses. A lot. For every every instance where he crashes the line and makes a stop in the hole you'll see him crash the line before the RB even has the ball and the play goes the other way.

• In the Seattle game he did something that really chapped my a*s, kind of a last straw. First, there was a play where he was spying Wilson and took him down on the perimeter for a short gain. Good. A possession or two later he was spying again. There was pretty good pocket contain, so he decided to come on a delayed blitz. He got stopped in his tracks, Wilson escaped and gouged for a long gain. Bad. For every highlight there is a low light.

• I can't recall if it was going into year 2 or 3 where he said he was going for 200 tackles. This season he was quoted whining about how hard it is to play run and pass as an ILB. No sh*t. Kinda knucklehead stuff.

He's physically capable of being a decent player at the position but his mental game is inconsistent. Something tells me he's not a tape hound. The best thing I can say about him is he nearly never takes himself off the field with something around a career snap count in the high 90's.

I'm puzzled by your "politician" statement. Ted Thompson spoke infrequently and when he did he offered next to nothing. If he had run fof office nobody would know he is was because he'd be in his office an not out on the stump.

Gutekunst is the superior politician. He had nice things to say about nearly everybody on the roster who's name came up. He talked about being a Wolf/Thompson guy and would like to keep all the established vets. He also said that coming from that tree he'd always be amenable to drafting a QB if he saw good value. Of course he didn't say which round. I'll telll you it will not be the first or the second regardless of who is on the board.

Gutekunst is more transparent, to be sure, but out of the 30 minute press conference there were only a few things I would consider providing insight as to priorities:

• Getting Clark off the 5th. year option and into an extension. I don't think that surprises anybody.

• He is in discussions with Bulaga. That doesn't mean he'll be signed. But at least it tells me they are talking and they have not just decided to let him walk. This is not any suprising revelation in that it comes down to the money.

• The non-Adams receivers flashed but were inconsistent and he's looking to upgrade that position group. No surprise there.

• They are going to make sure they are squared away at the ILB position with no kind words for Martinez. What he didn't say is probably telling. This may surprise some by it does not suprise me, obviously.

• The team is in a good financial positions but not so good as to be as active in free agency as last season. This was no surprise to me. It has as much or more to do with the 2021 cap situation as anything in 2020 as mentioned in salary cap thread I started. The 2019 cap cost for Rodgers, Adams, the Smiths, Amos, Turner and Clark (presumably) will be going up by something around $50 mil in 2021, with Bakhtiari, Jones, King and Linsley among others being free agents.

On that last point, Gutekunst told us last year that it is "always win now in Green Bay, Wisconsin." That's something of a political statement in that you don't know exactly what that means. Most GMs other than the ones in teardown-rebuild mode say the same thing.

What he did not say is, "we are all-in to win now in Green Bay" as was the case with the Rams. 2021 would have something to do with not being all-in in this next rodeo. You never want to find yourself where the Rams are right now, a cautionary tale.

 

[PackAttack12]

I didn't quote him. I just typed what his statement sounded like to me.

With respect, your post was inaccurate whether you quoted him or not. Your statement was false.

If you want to post what the statement sounded like to you, then type "the statement sounded to me like...."

Instead, others were misled. And it takes someone going back to listen to an entire presser to set the record straight.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm diametrically opposed to most of that.

I don't see a higher than average football IQ in Martinez, as noted previously. The learning curve is steep for ILBs stepping in from college against pro style offenses and he's struggled to keep up. Let me count the ways:

• According to one report, his signal calling was taken away in his second season, given first to Clinton-Dix and then Burnett who moved into the box in a hybrid ILB role.

• It took him into year 3 before he started to look less clueless in zone coverage.

• He guesses. A lot. For every instance where he crashes the line and makes a stop in the hole you'll see him crash the line before the RB even has the ball and the play goes the other way.

• In the Seattle game he did something that really chapped my a*s, kind of a last straw. First, there was a play where he was spying Wilson and took him down on the perimeter for a short gain. Good. A possession or two later he was spying again. There was pretty good pocket contain, so he decided to come on a delayed blitz. He got stopped in his tracks and Wilson escaped and gouged for a long gain. Bad. For every highlight there is a low light.

• I can't recall if it was going into year 2 or 3 where he said he was going for 200 tackles. This season he was quoted whining about how hard it is to play run and pass as an ILB. No sh*t. Kinda knucklehead stuff.

He's physically capable of being a decent player at the position but his mental game is inconsistent. Something tells me he's not a tape hound. The best thing I can say about him is he nearly never takes himself off the field with something around a career snap count in the high 90's.

I'm puzzled by your "politician" statement. Ted Thompson spoke infrequently and when he did he offered next to nothing. If he had run fo office nobody would know he is was because he'd be in his office an not out on the stump.

Gutekunst is the superior politician. He had nice things to say about nearly everybody on the roster who's name came up. He talked about being a Wolf/Thompson guy and would like to keep all the established vets. He also said that coming from that tree he'd always be amenable to drafting a QB if he saw good value. Of course he didn't say which round. I'll telll you it will not be the first or the second regardless of who is on the board.

Gutekunst is more transparent, to be sure, but out of the 30 minute press conference there were only a few things I would consider providing insight as to priorities:

• Getting Clark off the 5th. year option and into an extension. I don't think that surprises anybody.

• He is in discussions with Bulaga. That doesn't mean he'll be signed. But at least it tells me they are talking and they have not just decided to let him walk. This not any suprising revelation in that it comes down to the money.

• The non-Adams receivers flashed but were inconsistent and he's looking to upgrade that position group. No surprise there.

• They are going to make sure they are squared away at the ILB position with no kind words for Martinez. What he didn't say is probably telling. This may surprise some by it does not suprise me, obviously.

• The team is in a good financial positions but not so good as to be as active in free agency as last season. This was no surprise to me. It has as much or more to do with the 2021 cap situation as anything in 2020 as mentioned in salary cap thread I started. The 2019 cap cost for Rodgers, Adams, the Smiths, Amos, Turner and Clark (presumably) will be going up by something around $50 mil in 2021, with Bakhtiari, Jones, King and Linsley among others being free agents.

On that last point, Gutekunst told us last year that it is "always win now in Green Bay, Wisconsin." That's something of a political statement in that you don't know exactly what that means. Most GMs other than the ones in teardown-rebuild mode say the same thing.

What he did not say is, "we are all-in to win now in Green Bay" as was the case with the Rams. 2021 would have something to do with not being all-in in this next rodeo. You never want to find yourself where the Rams are right now, a cautionary tale.

Never too stubborn to admit when a counter argument substantiates a better case than I could rebutt. Perhaps my take was too emotionally based, but who cares at this point. Kudos.

Blake ain't here in 2020 either way

 

[Heyjoe4]

Never too stubborn to admit when a counter argument substantiates a better case than I could rebutt. Perhaps my take was too emotionally based, but who cares at this point. Kudos.

Blake ain't here in 2020 either way

Martinez being gone is one of the few things we can count on as fans next year. Finding his replacement? That’s another story.......

 

[Calvin]

I would try to keep him. My only issue is GB struggles with special teams enough. I trust him kicking FGs. I'm a little annoyed that teams are kicking in the back of the end zone on kickoffs and his kicks seem to be falling short of the end zone, setting up for big returns.

 

[adambr2]

Disagree. He has earned the right to some peace of mind. Maybe bring in a body every couple years but not every year. Sign him up for 5. He's 35. No reason he can't kick at least another 7 or 8 years if he stays relatively injury free, which he has to this point in his career. He's a great bad weather kicker and those are hard to find.

He's made over 30M in his career kicking, he's got plenty of piece of mind.

I would guess a 35+ year old kicker getting a 5 year deal probably has never happened in NFL history, it simply isn't done. Even Justin Tucker is on a 4 year deal. In any event, a long term deal doesn't bring peace of mind. It's the NFL, you can always be cut.

Speaking of Tucker, it gets pretty unpleasant kicking in Baltimore late in the year. The "Mason is a great bad weather kicker" thing gets a bit overblown. There are plenty of northern NFL cities that aren't great to kick in late in the year. Mason automatically gets two dome games a year. Kicking in Green Bay can be tricky but I'm not sure it's really any worse than Chicago or Pittsburgh or Buffalo.

 

[OldSchool101]

The "Mason is a great bad weather kicker" thing gets a bit overblown. There are plenty of northern NFL cities that aren't great to kick in late in the year. Mason automatically gets two dome games a year.

Just for giggles I went ahead and looked at that.
I selected playoff games and non-dome games exclusively, because that to me is the epitome of “bad weather” games. Either that or we start splitting hairs in subjectivity.

Crosby is exactly 100% (8/8) FG % and 100% 35/35 XPM in the playoffs when kicking in cold weather Stadiums in January Playoffs. That’s Lambeau, Philly’s “Linc”, Chicago’s Soldier Field and Fedex (D.C.).

In 20 playoff appearances he’s only missed 3 FG and he’s 65/65 in XPM. All 3 FG just happened to be in Arizona and Atlanta (twice).

Thats 43/43 (100% success) in attempts during the worst weather month in the year. Nobody is more accurate than 100%.
I don’t think saying he’s a great kicker in bad weather is a stretch at all.

 

[Mondio]

He's made over 30M in his career kicking, he's got plenty of piece of mind.

I would guess a 35+ year old kicker getting a 5 year deal probably has never happened in NFL history, it simply isn't done. Even Justin Tucker is on a 4 year deal. In any event, a long term deal doesn't bring peace of mind. It's the NFL, you can always be cut.

Speaking of Tucker, it gets pretty unpleasant kicking in Baltimore late in the year. The "Mason is a great bad weather kicker" thing gets a bit overblown. There are plenty of northern NFL cities that aren't great to kick in late in the year. Mason automatically gets two dome games a year. Kicking in Green Bay can be tricky but I'm not sure it's really any worse than Chicago or Pittsburgh or Buffalo.

Probably true, but the Bears have had lots of kicking problems that have cost them dearly since letting Robbie go, Pittsburgh went thru their own kicking issues. Didn't they go thru 4-5 one year and send death threats to one a year ago? I know nothing of Buffalo other than Micah Hyde went there and made everyone mad

and I don't see locking Mason up for 5 years, but I can see a 2 year deal at 6-7 million with about 4 guaranteed

 

[BrokenArrow]

He's made over 30M in his career kicking, he's got plenty of piece of mind.

What the hell makes you think I was talking about money? I was talking about him not having to fight for his job every damn year. Jeez.