F>R's 2020 Mock Draft Thread (Final Mocks Page 16)

[Dantés]

FIFTH MOCK - POST SENIOR BOWL/PRE-COMBINE
​

30th Overall: Justin Jefferson, WR - LSU: He will continue to be my undisputed 1st Round Pick until further notice. Murray was already gone anyway.

62nd Overall: Raekwon Davis, DE - Alabama: How cool that this guy is available in the 2nd Round?! Davis can line up anywhere but at 6'7 he's a must have on the end. He has "plus-plus" run-stopping ability; which if we're seeing the 49ers, Seahawks, Saints, and Vikings every postseason, will be a necessity.

94th Overall: Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton: This TE class isn't **** but I think Trautman could drop to the 3rd based off a run on OL that spans mid 2nd to early 3rd Round. With Trautman no extra WR is needed in this Draft, take your 2 new weapons and thrive Aaron Rodgers.

133rd Overall: Jacob Phillips, ILB - LSU: Phillips no matter what board, custom or otherwise, remains a staple in the 4th Round. I find it somewhat insulting to his potential that he's available this late, but Blake Martinez was a 4th Rounder too(131st Overall!!!!)....what do we have to lose?

175th Overall: Larrell Murchinson, DL - NC State: This guy was completely off my board earlier, but the Senior Bowl made me a believer. He casually whipped a couple of top tier linemen in practice and drills, I'd like to see more please at Lambeau.

192nd Overall: Khaleke Hudson, ILB - Michigan: Can his frame put on an extra 10-15 lbs? I'd like to find out. His coverage skills won't make it in this league as a safety in my opinion, but they'll work for an ILB running with TEs and RBs.

209th Overall: Terrence Steele, OT - Texas Tech: This is the last mock I expect to find him in the 6th Round....I hope I'm wrong.

224th Overall: Jack Driscoll, OG - Auburn: Surprisingly low hanging fruit still in the Draft. I expected the Senior Bowl to give him a boost and it did not. To me that screams he's converting to Guard in the NFL. I'll take it no matter what though.

242nd Overall: Tanner Muse, S/LB - Clemson: I love it when a prospect crawls back on my board. Muse had decent tape in a losing effort to LSU in the National Championship. He's already 230 whereas Hudson isn't; Hudson has the speed though. I'd love to see these two scrap it out over camp for an ILB or sub-package starting gig in camp.

243rd Overall: McTelvin Agim, DL - Arkansas: He slid a little bit for some unknown reason, but I'm still interested as this DL needs a boost. I like him to push Lancaster for a spot early. Davis, Murchinson, and Agim should provide the solution the DL needs via the "TT Take Three" strategy.




I'm going to shy away from trades and FA for now as the most likely trading partners have a TON of cap and I'd like to see theirs and our FA first in order to make realistic trades.

I'm not a big fan of Jefferson's. He's got excellent ball skills, but his reputation as a route runner is overrated, in my opinion. A lot of his big catches have been contested, rather than a result of creating separation. And on the outside, he's proven to be a mediocre talent. So you're talking about a biggish slot who doesn't really demonstrate an ability to consistently defeat press coverage, isn't a dynamic athlete, and isn't all that great of a route runner. I think we can do a lot better in this class.

Raekwon Davis would be an interesting talent to take a big swing on, but I highly doubt that such a big-framed athlete is going to be there at #62, even despite some underwhelming recent production.

 

[4zone]

FIFTH MOCK - POST SENIOR BOWL/PRE-COMBINE
​

30th Overall: Justin Jefferson, WR - LSU: He will continue to be my undisputed 1st Round Pick until further notice. Murray was already gone anyway.

62nd Overall: Raekwon Davis, DE - Alabama: How cool that this guy is available in the 2nd Round?! Davis can line up anywhere but at 6'7 he's a must have on the end. He has "plus-plus" run-stopping ability; which if we're seeing the 49ers, Seahawks, Saints, and Vikings every postseason, will be a necessity.

94th Overall: Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton: This TE class isn't **** but I think Trautman could drop to the 3rd based off a run on OL that spans mid 2nd to early 3rd Round. With Trautman no extra WR is needed in this Draft, take your 2 new weapons and thrive Aaron Rodgers.

133rd Overall: Jacob Phillips, ILB - LSU: Phillips no matter what board, custom or otherwise, remains a staple in the 4th Round. I find it somewhat insulting to his potential that he's available this late, but Blake Martinez was a 4th Rounder too(131st Overall!!!!)....what do we have to lose?

175th Overall: Larrell Murchinson, DL - NC State: This guy was completely off my board earlier, but the Senior Bowl made me a believer. He casually whipped a couple of top tier linemen in practice and drills, I'd like to see more please at Lambeau.

192nd Overall: Khaleke Hudson, ILB - Michigan: Can his frame put on an extra 10-15 lbs? I'd like to find out. His coverage skills won't make it in this league as a safety in my opinion, but they'll work for an ILB running with TEs and RBs.

209th Overall: Terrence Steele, OT - Texas Tech: This is the last mock I expect to find him in the 6th Round....I hope I'm wrong.

224th Overall: Jack Driscoll, OG - Auburn: Surprisingly low hanging fruit still in the Draft. I expected the Senior Bowl to give him a boost and it did not. To me that screams he's converting to Guard in the NFL. I'll take it no matter what though.

242nd Overall: Tanner Muse, S/LB - Clemson: I love it when a prospect crawls back on my board. Muse had decent tape in a losing effort to LSU in the National Championship. He's already 230 whereas Hudson isn't; Hudson has the speed though. I'd love to see these two scrap it out over camp for an ILB or sub-package starting gig in camp.

243rd Overall: McTelvin Agim, DL - Arkansas: He slid a little bit for some unknown reason, but I'm still interested as this DL needs a boost. I like him to push Lancaster for a spot early. Davis, Murchinson, and Agim should provide the solution the DL needs via the "TT Take Three" strategy.




I'm going to shy away from trades and FA for now as the most likely trading partners have a TON of cap and I'd like to see theirs and our FA first in order to make realistic trades.

Won't be able to get Troutman in the 3rd. May be gone by our pick in #2.

 

[4zone]

Every year we end up with one or two more positions of need than we have picks or money in FA. This year we need WR, TE, DL, ILB and RT. We probably can only get upgrades at 3 of these in the Draft and FA. We have to rely on development of current players for the other two and a lucky mid to late round draft hit.

I see TE getting the development nod in Sternberger. A good chance he takes that next step. I see ILB and WR as too desparate positions to pass on so both with come via early draft picks or FA. That leaves the RT and DL positions.

I see 3 ways this could play out

ILB - FA
OT - Rd 1
WR - Rd 2
DL Rd 3

ILB FA
WR - Rd 1
DT Rd 2
OT Rd 3

DL FA
ILB - Rd 1
WR - Rd 2
OT - Rd 3

I expect cuts will come first.
Attempt to sign Bulaga next.
Target FA based on Bulaga signing/loss.
Draft.
Clark extension.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

FIFTH MOCK - POST SENIOR BOWL/PRE-COMBINE
​

30th Overall: Justin Jefferson, WR - LSU: He will continue to be my undisputed 1st Round Pick until further notice. Murray was already gone anyway.

62nd Overall: Raekwon Davis, DE - Alabama: How cool that this guy is available in the 2nd Round?! Davis can line up anywhere but at 6'7 he's a must have on the end. He has "plus-plus" run-stopping ability; which if we're seeing the 49ers, Seahawks, Saints, and Vikings every postseason, will be a necessity.

94th Overall: Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton: This TE class isn't **** but I think Trautman could drop to the 3rd based off a run on OL that spans mid 2nd to early 3rd Round. With Trautman no extra WR is needed in this Draft, take your 2 new weapons and thrive Aaron Rodgers.

133rd Overall: Jacob Phillips, ILB - LSU: Phillips no matter what board, custom or otherwise, remains a staple in the 4th Round. I find it somewhat insulting to his potential that he's available this late, but Blake Martinez was a 4th Rounder too(131st Overall!!!!)....what do we have to lose?

175th Overall: Larrell Murchinson, DL - NC State: This guy was completely off my board earlier, but the Senior Bowl made me a believer. He casually whipped a couple of top tier linemen in practice and drills, I'd like to see more please at Lambeau.

192nd Overall: Khaleke Hudson, ILB - Michigan: Can his frame put on an extra 10-15 lbs? I'd like to find out. His coverage skills won't make it in this league as a safety in my opinion, but they'll work for an ILB running with TEs and RBs.

209th Overall: Terrence Steele, OT - Texas Tech: This is the last mock I expect to find him in the 6th Round....I hope I'm wrong.

224th Overall: Jack Driscoll, OG - Auburn: Surprisingly low hanging fruit still in the Draft. I expected the Senior Bowl to give him a boost and it did not. To me that screams he's converting to Guard in the NFL. I'll take it no matter what though.

242nd Overall: Tanner Muse, S/LB - Clemson: I love it when a prospect crawls back on my board. Muse had decent tape in a losing effort to LSU in the National Championship. He's already 230 whereas Hudson isn't; Hudson has the speed though. I'd love to see these two scrap it out over camp for an ILB or sub-package starting gig in camp.

243rd Overall: McTelvin Agim, DL - Arkansas: He slid a little bit for some unknown reason, but I'm still interested as this DL needs a boost. I like him to push Lancaster for a spot early. Davis, Murchinson, and Agim should provide the solution the DL needs via the "TT Take Three" strategy.




I'm going to shy away from trades and FA for now as the most likely trading partners have a TON of cap and I'd like to see theirs and our FA first in order to make realistic trades.

Love it, but I would've tried to go another position Round 1 and get Winfield round 2

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I'm not a big fan of Jefferson's. He's got excellent ball skills, but his reputation as a route runner is overrated, in my opinion. A lot of his big catches have been contested, rather than a result of creating separation. And on the outside, he's proven to be a mediocre talent. So you're talking about a biggish slot who doesn't really demonstrate an ability to consistently defeat press coverage, isn't a dynamic athlete, and isn't all that great of a route runner. I think we can do a lot better in this class.

Raekwon Davis would be an interesting talent to take a big swing on, but I highly doubt that such a big-framed athlete is going to be there at #62, even despite some underwhelming recent production.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just see it differently. You would love for a guy to just blow by a defender with pure speed, but eventually said player is either going to draw a double team or teams will work a zone scheme to negate the speed. But a guy who can go up and win 50/50 balls or balls that may be a little over/under thrown and give the defender an advantage. That's going to be doubly important in the redzone. What you call a weakness I call a strength. We can agree to disagree just fine.

The only thing I disagree is on your opinion of him working outside. He may have difficulty occasionally in press man or against faster CBs but he has the technical prowess and IQ to beat that. For what it's worth Allen Lazard posted a 4.55 at the Combine in 2018, and I believe most would call him our #2 WR right now. I suspect Jefferson will run 4.46.

Sitting at 30th, I really can't see how we can do better addressing this position group. I trust Gute will make the right decision, but no WR in the 1st means we're almost certainly looking at a guy with a 3rd Round Grade. I've been looking at experts mocks as well to influence my own, and you can't even get Aiyuk and Pittman past mid 2nd Round. That leaves Van Jefferson who's ascended, or Peoples-Jones who's a priority Day 3 pick.

You hit the nail on the head with Davis; 2 years of ho-hum. There was a time when he was a Top 20 pick. The Alabama DL has suffered a little in quality so maybe he just needed help like Clark does with Green Bay. I'd love to see him there when we pick, but there is a possibility a GM or two is eyeing him earlier in the 2nd.

Won't be able to get Troutman in the 3rd. May be gone by our pick in #2.

I'm predicting a run on OL in the 2nd that pushes him down. He probably goes early third in my opinion because some GMs will knock him for playing at Dayton. Crazier things can and will happen though.

Love it, but I would've tried to go another position Round 1 and get Winfield round 2

Another position such as? Murray won't make it to us most likely so that leaves probably a lineman on either side of the ball.

Winfield has injury concerns(multiple foot injuries) and plays safety. 2nd Round is a lot of capital to spend for a backup. If you're thinking what I think you are, Kevin King isn't going anywhere.

 

[tynimiller]

The nock on Jefferson many are bringing up while could be valid is merely asking him to be a WR he isn't. Basically a WR corp is built with diversity in mind, attempting to have guys crafted in dissimilar molds to an extent...because having 2 or 3 guys that can do everything amazing just doesn't happen...shoot some teams win super bowls without such guys. You have in my opinion 4 different WR types:

Burners - Guys that can blow by and/or beat coverages or would be tacklers with their pure and raw speed.
Technicians - Guys that use a skillset they have to ensure they're open/in best position for a reception. This could include any or all of the following: they are a "student of the game" or superior minded WR, an excellent route runner or excels at using their body to their benefit positioning wise.
Jump Ballers - These are your guys that excel at winning those 50-50 battles, red zone tosses and typically aggressively attack the ball. While they may not excel at body control while on the ground like the "technician" they do excel at using it for jump balls.
Wildcard - They do it all...not saying well, but they do it all. This could mean they're all worldly in everything (10s across their ratings) or they're WR with sixes across the board. I personally think Davante is an excellent example of this, dude has grown into a receiver that I believe can do it all. Very rarely do I feel we know for certain if a guy is a top - tier "Wildcard" type in the draft...the best of this bunch typically are grown out of one of the other 3.

I see Jefferson as a Jump Baller primarily due to his size, aggression on balls and his knack for using his body when in the air. While he is not a pure technician, if you watch his tape there is some promise there...however it helps when you have Joe Burrow throwing you the ball as well. I think Jefferson depending who is available could pair up quite while in our WR room with Adams, Lazard, MVS and throw in EQ healthy and most likely a veteran/experienced FA and/or mid-late round draft pick as well.

 

[AmishMafia]

The nock on Jefferson many are bringing up while could be valid is merely asking him to be a WR he isn't. Basically a WR corp is built with diversity in mind, attempting to have guys crafted in dissimilar molds to an extent...because having 2 or 3 guys that can do everything amazing just doesn't happen...shoot some teams win super bowls without such guys. You have in my opinion 4 different WR types:

Burners - Guys that can blow by and/or beat coverages or would be tacklers with their pure and raw speed.
Technicians - Guys that use a skillset they have to ensure they're open/in best position for a reception. This could include any or all of the following: they are a "student of the game" or superior minded WR, an excellent route runner or excels at using their body to their benefit positioning wise.
Jump Ballers - These are your guys that excel at winning those 50-50 battles, red zone tosses and typically aggressively attack the ball. While they may not excel at body control while on the ground like the "technician" they do excel at using it for jump balls.
Wildcard - They do it all...not saying well, but they do it all. This could mean they're all worldly in everything (10s across their ratings) or they're WR with sixes across the board. I personally think Davante is an excellent example of this, dude has grown into a receiver that I believe can do it all. Very rarely do I feel we know for certain if a guy is a top - tier "Wildcard" type in the draft...the best of this bunch typically are grown out of one of the other 3.

I see Jefferson as a Jump Baller primarily due to his size, aggression on balls and his knack for using his body when in the air. While he is not a pure technician, if you watch his tape there is some promise there...however it helps when you have Joe Burrow throwing you the ball as well. I think Jefferson depending who is available could pair up quite while in our WR room with Adams, Lazard, MVS and throw in EQ healthy and most likely a veteran/experienced FA and/or mid-late round draft pick as well.

Well done. I usually talk about from a tools perspective: speed (burner), route running (technician), height, jump, body contol, catch radius, strength (jump ballers) and also hands, smarts, and quickness. The more tools you have in your toolbox the more receptions you will have.

However . . .

Jumpballers are the lowest desired in my opinion. Route running, quickness, and hands are important to me.

I prefer a guy who is really good in several of these than a master of 1 or 2. That way, depending on the defender you are matched up against, you have an advantage over him at least one thing you can exploit.

In my opinion, an elite route runner, gets open more often than any other type. ( bear in mind that a jump baller is 'open' with a smaller separation than other guys.)

 

[4zone]

Well done. I usually talk about from a tools perspective: speed (burner), route running (technician), height, jump, body contol, catch radius, strength (jump ballers) and also hands, smarts, and quickness. The more tools you have in your toolbox the more receptions you will have.

However . . .

Jumpballers are the lowest desired in my opinion. Route running, quickness, and hands are important to me.

I prefer a guy who is really good in several of these than a master of 1 or 2. That way, depending on the defender you are matched up against, you have an advantage over him at least one thing you can exploit.

In my opinion, an elite route runner, gets open more often than any other type. ( bear in mind that a jump baller is 'open' with a smaller separation than other guys.)

Who's your guy then? Hamler? I think a lot like Edelman but way faster. Only a hair shorter. Well worth a first Rd pick if he is romotely close to that good.

 

[AmishMafia]

Who's your guy then? Hamler? I think a lot like Edelman but way faster. Only a hair shorter. Well worth a first Rd pick if he is romotely close to that good.

Brandon Aiyuk
KJ Hill (think he is underrated by many)
Shenault
Ruggs (doubt he is there)
Jefferson (I think he is a very good route runner than some)
Reagor - probably not a good route runner. But he didnt need to be. He got enough separation he didnt need to run great routes. I think he can learn, but failing that we have a field stretching burner and a serious return game weapon.

Others include Johnson from Minny, Cephus, claypool and Gandy-Golden.

I would stay away from:

Tee Higgins. Poor routes and too stiff to ever be good at it.

Hamler: just too small. I think one big hit and he is toast.


Anyway, there are quite a few as you can see. We should be able to find one on first 2 rounds.

 

[Dantés]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just see it differently. You would love for a guy to just blow by a defender with pure speed, but eventually said player is either going to draw a double team or teams will work a zone scheme to negate the speed. But a guy who can go up and win 50/50 balls or balls that may be a little over/under thrown and give the defender an advantage. That's going to be doubly important in the redzone. What you call a weakness I call a strength. We can agree to disagree just fine.

The only thing I disagree is on your opinion of him working outside. He may have difficulty occasionally in press man or against faster CBs but he has the technical prowess and IQ to beat that. For what it's worth Allen Lazard posted a 4.55 at the Combine in 2018, and I believe most would call him our #2 WR right now. I suspect Jefferson will run 4.46.

Sitting at 30th, I really can't see how we can do better addressing this position group. I trust Gute will make the right decision, but no WR in the 1st means we're almost certainly looking at a guy with a 3rd Round Grade. I've been looking at experts mocks as well to influence my own, and you can't even get Aiyuk and Pittman past mid 2nd Round. That leaves Van Jefferson who's ascended, or Peoples-Jones who's a priority Day 3 pick.

You hit the nail on the head with Davis; 2 years of ho-hum. There was a time when he was a Top 20 pick. The Alabama DL has suffered a little in quality so maybe he just needed help like Clark does with Green Bay. I'd love to see him there when we pick, but there is a possibility a GM or two is eyeing him earlier in the 2nd.

Well, I didn't call it a weakness. I called it a strength. I just don't see enough other complementary strengths to buy him at #30. As I said, a guy with great ball skills but who doesn't create separation consistency, isn't all that impressive athletically, and isn't a big threat as a YAC weapon isn't doing a lot for me. It's not that speed is the only thing that matters (though it is one of the biggest needs on offense), but if we are taking a guy who isn't dynamic in the first round, I want someone who creates separation and beats man coverage.

I consider Reagor, Aiyuk, and Shenault to all be better, more impressive prospects.

 

[Dantés]

The nock on Jefferson many are bringing up while could be valid is merely asking him to be a WR he isn't. Basically a WR corp is built with diversity in mind, attempting to have guys crafted in dissimilar molds to an extent...because having 2 or 3 guys that can do everything amazing just doesn't happen...shoot some teams win super bowls without such guys. You have in my opinion 4 different WR types:

Burners - Guys that can blow by and/or beat coverages or would be tacklers with their pure and raw speed.
Technicians - Guys that use a skillset they have to ensure they're open/in best position for a reception. This could include any or all of the following: they are a "student of the game" or superior minded WR, an excellent route runner or excels at using their body to their benefit positioning wise.
Jump Ballers - These are your guys that excel at winning those 50-50 battles, red zone tosses and typically aggressively attack the ball. While they may not excel at body control while on the ground like the "technician" they do excel at using it for jump balls.
Wildcard - They do it all...not saying well, but they do it all. This could mean they're all worldly in everything (10s across their ratings) or they're WR with sixes across the board. I personally think Davante is an excellent example of this, dude has grown into a receiver that I believe can do it all. Very rarely do I feel we know for certain if a guy is a top - tier "Wildcard" type in the draft...the best of this bunch typically are grown out of one of the other 3.

I see Jefferson as a Jump Baller primarily due to his size, aggression on balls and his knack for using his body when in the air. While he is not a pure technician, if you watch his tape there is some promise there...however it helps when you have Joe Burrow throwing you the ball as well. I think Jefferson depending who is available could pair up quite while in our WR room with Adams, Lazard, MVS and throw in EQ healthy and most likely a veteran/experienced FA and/or mid-late round draft pick as well.

The attraction of Reagor and, to a lesser extent, Aiyuk is that they check multiple boxes. They both threaten vertically, but they also use their speed to stretch defenses horizontally, and to make plays in the screen game. Reagor is a threat as a gadget weapon, running on sweeps and end-arounds. He's a punt returner, as mentioned, and also showed an ability to attack the ball in the air despite only being 5'11".

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

While I agree that Reagor and Aiyuk can threaten vertically but to me, that's the only box they check. I believe that Aiyuk will be the better pro prospect as he was coached by a former NFL player and head coach. However, I worry that Reagor and Aiyuk could be just gadget players. Seeing as we've only see one wrinkle of this offense under LeFleur, I worry if they can truly find a home here in Green Bay.

 

[Dantés]

While I agree that Reagor and Aiyuk can threaten vertically but to me, that's the only box they check. I believe that Aiyuk will be the better pro prospect as he was coached by a former NFL player and head coach. However, I worry that Reagor and Aiyuk could be just gadget players. Seeing as we've only see one wrinkle of this offense under LeFleur, I worry if they can truly find a home here in Green Bay.

I think a fair assessment of these guys would have to add, at an absolute minimum, yards after catch ability to the list of boxes they catch. They're both playmakers with the ball in their hands. Reagor especially. He's a weapon on screens, in the sweep/end-around run game, and as a punt returner.

And while they don't have developed route trees (very few receivers coming out of college offense do), they both show acumen for creating separation with explosion and quickness out of their breaks.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think a fair assessment of these guys would have to add, at an absolute minimum, yards after catch ability to the list of boxes they catch.

That is a maybe for now. We have to remember the game is much faster in the NFL, and I'm going to reach out on a limb and say that the competition defensively is a little lesser than what they'll see in the NFL. Without going too deep down the rabbit hole, the Pac-12 and the Big 12 have only 1 CB in the Top 100 respectively for 2020; and unfortunately for Reagor, Jeff Gladney plays for TCU as well. Compare that to the SEC and Big Ten who have 5 and 4 CBs in the Top 100 alone.

 

[4zone]

Brandon Aiyuk
KJ Hill (think he is underrated by many)
Shenault
Ruggs (doubt he is there)
Jefferson (I think he is a very good route runner than some)
Reagor - probably not a good route runner. But he didnt need to be. He got enough separation he didnt need to run great routes. I think he can learn, but failing that we have a field stretching burner and a serious return game weapon.

Others include Johnson from Minny, Cephus, claypool and Gandy-Golden.

I would stay away from:

Tee Higgins. Poor routes and too stiff to ever be good at it.

Hamler: just too small. I think one big hit and he is toast.


Anyway, there are quite a few as you can see. We should be able to find one on first 2 rounds.

Aiyuk's YAC was best in show this past year. Something we were woefully short on this past season. Will have to see how skills timing at the combine.

 

[Dantés]

That is a maybe for now. We have to remember the game is much faster in the NFL, and I'm going to reach out on a limb and say that the competition defensively is a little lesser than what they'll see in the NFL. Without going too deep down the rabbit hole, the Pac-12 and the Big 12 have only 1 CB in the Top 100 respectively for 2020; and unfortunately for Reagor, Jeff Gladney plays for TCU as well. Compare that to the SEC and Big Ten who have 5 and 4 CBs in the Top 100 alone.

So this brings up a few questions for me.

Should we disregard or hold in suspicion everything that Justin Jefferson did against lesser corners? Because even in the SEC, the guys covering the slot are not usually the top prospects.

And what does this say then about your projected 3rd round pick, Adam Trautman of Dayton?

I'm also curious why you feel comfortable calling them vertical threats, but when it comes to YAC ability their level of competition doesn't allow you to be as confident? Shouldn't that same standard apply to the first skill set too?

Level of competition is a factor, but it shouldn't be weighted too heavily. I'll speak more to Reagor, as he is the guy I've watched more closely. His explosive traits are obvious. If it makes you feel better, they were apparent against OSU in 2018 (Arnette, Okudah) too.

 

[PackFan2]

KJ Hill (think he is underrated by many)

Im a big supporter of KJ Hill. Consistency is his game and his hands are super reliable. Thats really all you need in most WR. I've learned my lesson falling for crazy-athletic (who cant catch) prospects like Kevin White and Dorian Green-Beckham.

 

[PackFan2]

Jefferson (I think he is a very good route runner than some)

Van Jefferson? I think Van Jefferson is underrated by many too. Yes, hes 24yrs old but he plays as expected from a 24 yr old. I think he falls anywhere from late 2 to 4th.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

So this brings up a few questions for me.

Should we disregard or hold in suspicion everything that Justin Jefferson did against lesser corners? Because even in the SEC, the guys covering the slot are not usually the top prospects.

And what does this say then about your projected 3rd round pick, Adam Trautman of Dayton?

I'm also curious why you feel comfortable calling them vertical threats, but when it comes to YAC ability their level of competition doesn't allow you to be as confident? Shouldn't that same standard apply to the first skill set too?

Level of competition is a factor, but it shouldn't be weighted too heavily. I'll speak more to Reagor, as he is the guy I've watched more closely. His explosive traits are obvious. If it makes you feel better, they were apparent against OSU in 2018 (Arnette, Okudah) too.

We could take that angle, but Jefferson has aligned in more than just the slot. It would be wise to label him as purely a slot WR.

I projected a run on OL/DL that pushes Trautman down to the bottom of the 3rd. I also said that because Trautman came from Dayton some GMs wouldn't consider him until the 3rd Round anyway. Had Trautman come from even the likes of a program like Maryland or Southern Miss, he'd probably be considered a solid 2nd Round guy. A program like UCF or Appalachain State, he's probably a lock for the back of the 1st Round. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

I acknowledge that they should both be vertical threats, but as I said the NFL plays faster. YAC could go down because that CB or S could run a sub 4.4 as well. As I mentioned previously Reagor did a decent amount of gadget stuff....some of that was short that he took for long gains. I don't expect him to do that as much at the next level because the LBs are faster too, they'll close in quicker than what he's faced in college.

I'm not saying Reagor or Aiyuk are bad, I just don't like them for us in the 1st Round. I have my preferences, as do you. As I said Aiyuk I believe will be the better prospect than Reagor, and I just have Jefferson trumping them both. At 30th I feel like everyone will be a reach, and I'm just advocating for the reach of my guy.

 

[Dantés]

We could take that angle, but Jefferson has aligned in more than just the slot. It would be wise to label him as purely a slot WR.

I projected a run on OL/DL that pushes Trautman down to the bottom of the 3rd. I also said that because Trautman came from Dayton some GMs wouldn't consider him until the 3rd Round anyway. Had Trautman come from even the likes of a program like Maryland or Southern Miss, he'd probably be considered a solid 2nd Round guy. A program like UCF or Appalachain State, he's probably a lock for the back of the 1st Round. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

I acknowledge that they should both be vertical threats, but as I said the NFL plays faster. YAC could go down because that CB or S could run a sub 4.4 as well. As I mentioned previously Reagor did a decent amount of gadget stuff....some of that was short that he took for long gains. I don't expect him to do that as much at the next level because the LBs are faster too, they'll close in quicker than what he's faced in college.

Jefferson didn't align only as a slot, but that's certainly where he did the work that has made him a high draft prospect. No one was going to be looking at him in the first round based on his work on the outside.

My point is simply this-- if we're going to dismiss traits that prospects show on tape based on level of competition, that's a very slippery slope. Ultimately, any NFL prospect is spending the majority of their college career playing against guys who aren't going to be NFL starters.

So I would say that dismissing Reagor or Aiyuk's ability to make plays with the ball in their hands because of how many top 100 corners from this class happen to come from the PAC 12 or BIG 12 is misguided. Certainly they will face stiffer competition at the next level and it won't be as easy. By that same token, Jefferson is going to have to win at the catch point against legit NFL corners and not college slot corners.

 

[tynimiller]

I'll take a stab at this Mock thing...however for my mock I'm predicting the following:

1 - We do get a deal done with Bulaga...and IF Veldheer resigning would happen I think I would re-think OT entirely this draft...or push forward as it stands.

2 - In some fashion, either signing OR trading we get a starting level ILB in someone like Littleton or a few others I've mentioned.

3 - We do not address the obvious #2 WR spot....at BEST we sign an unproven or veteran WR at this point most teams would expect to be a #3 with a chance to provide that #2 style production.


First Round - 30th Overall: *****Reagor or Jefferson****** I believe we will have a choice here, for me it is gonna be down between these two and it all depends on direction of the WR corps thoughts held by the organization. IF we have hopes of having Ervin back and MVS getting comfortable NOT being expected to be the #2 but provide those burners....I think it is Jefferson. However, Reagor offers an entirely different small and blazing fast skillset GB has not truly had to a degree. Purely off a hunch I suspect we go Reagor, WR - TCU

Second Round - 62nd Overall: Rashard Lawrence, DL - LSU *The first of two consecutive LSU players I have us nabbing. Solid hands on the ground guy that I feel immediately makes us stronger along the front. I want Davis (Alabama) to be here, but unlike F>R I just don't think there is enough of a chance he falls this deep.

Third Round - 94th Overall: Jacob Phillips, ILB - LSU: *I completely understand some may get mad given we spent money in FA for Littleton or the likes at ILB, but I would love to see us grab supporting cast that can walk in and play with them. Phillips I am a big fan of and would love to see him with a G on his helmet. Yes I know some have him as a 4th or 5th rounder...but I truly feel he is worth a 3rd the way our off season and first two picks go.

Fourth Round - 133rd Overall: Troy Pride Jr., CB - Notre Dame *I'm telling you right now I predict this guy is undervalued and undergraded IMO. My Irish were not very good this last year IMO, and boy did we SUCK against the pass anytime Pride was not on the field. Often times tasked with the best of the opposition Pride excelled in winning more than losing those battles and while he doesn't have perhaps the flashiness his predecessor Julien Love. Part of me wants to say I'd be shocked he makes it to the Fourth, but than again I know many are not grading him as high as I feel they should. I think 4th onward this man is MORE than justified with a pick.

Fifth Round - 175th Overall: Terrence Steele, OT - Texas Tech *Very tough to call someone a stud in the fifth...but I LOVE what I see and should we re-sign Bulaga I think this is the round we start grabbing OL. Between his late performances and a lineman I expect to perform well at combine/pro days his days of being a 6th-UDFA are over.

Sixth Round - 192nd Overall: Charlie Taumoepeau, TE - Portland State *Here's where my bold prediction card is played and sees us not get a TE until the 6th. I truly think Gute, MLF and Company feel fairly confident with a Lewis resigning and enter the draft with Lewis, Tonyan and Sternberger in our TE room. I expect a mid to late round draft pick and one or two UDFA's to add to the mix come training camp. Charlie is raw, and not ready for immediate time for sure (what 6th round TE is) but I love the flashes he shows and grit. Not too mention that last name is just awesome.

Sixth Round - 209th Overall: Jack Driscoll, OG - Auburn *He is my outside first two days of the draft offensive lineman pick I think will shock some.

Seventh Round - 224th Overall: Tanner Muse, S/LB - Clemson *Kid caught my eye in each game (about 4 all year) I watched out of Clemson, including the natty loss to LSU.

Seventh Round - 242nd Overall: LeVonta Taylor, CB - Florida State *Kid has a world of talent...just seems like a roller coaster of performance partially due to injury. Could be an awesome Nickle guy in the future. His biggest issue is building that frame to be stronger. His vertical is insane.

Seventh Round - 243rd Overall: Scott Frantz, OT - Kent State *Took over at LT at Kent State immediately as a Freshman, but has struggled against top level rushers. Potential roll of the dice type guy.


***AMENDMENT OPTION I COULD SEE PLAY OUT IS DAVIS, DL FROM ALABAMA IS THERE AT #30. WE PICK HIM AND THEN IN THE SECOND ROUND END UP WITH THE LIKES OF AIYUK OR HAMLER.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I'll take a stab at this Mock thing...however for my mock I'm predicting the following:

1 - We do get a deal done with Bulaga...and IF Veldheer resigning would happen I think I would re-think OT entirely this draft...or push forward as it stands.

2 - In some fashion, either signing OR trading we get a starting level ILB in someone like Littleton or a few others I've mentioned.

3 - We do not address the obvious #2 WR spot....at BEST we sign an unproven or veteran WR at this point most teams would expect to be a #3 with a chance to provide that #2 style production.


First Round - 30th Overall: *****Reagor or Jefferson****** I believe we will have a choice here, for me it is gonna be down between these two and it all depends on direction of the WR corps thoughts held by the organization. IF we have hopes of having Ervin back and MVS getting comfortable NOT being expected to be the #2 but provide those burners....I think it is Jefferson. However, Reagor offers an entirely different small and blazing fast skillset GB has not truly had to a degree. Purely off a hunch I suspect we go Reagor, WR - TCU

Second Round - 62nd Overall: Rashard Lawrence, DL - LSU *The first of two consecutive LSU players I have us nabbing. Solid hands on the ground guy that I feel immediately makes us stronger along the front. I want Davis (Alabama) to be here, but unlike F>R I just don't think there is enough of a chance he falls this deep.

Third Round - 94th Overall: Jacob Phillips, ILB - LSU: *I completely understand some may get mad given we spent money in FA for Littleton or the likes at ILB, but I would love to see us grab supporting cast that can walk in and play with them. Phillips I am a big fan of and would love to see him with a G on his helmet. Yes I know some have him as a 4th or 5th rounder...but I truly feel he is worth a 3rd the way our off season and first two picks go.

Fourth Round - 133rd Overall: Troy Pride Jr., CB - Notre Dame *I'm telling you right now I predict this guy is undervalued and undergraded IMO. My Irish were not very good this last year IMO, and boy did we SUCK against the pass anytime Pride was not on the field. Often times tasked with the best of the opposition Pride excelled in winning more than losing those battles and while he doesn't have perhaps the flashiness his predecessor Julien Love. Part of me wants to say I'd be shocked he makes it to the Fourth, but than again I know many are not grading him as high as I feel they should. I think 4th onward this man is MORE than justified with a pick.

Fifth Round - 175th Overall: Terrence Steele, OT - Texas Tech *Very tough to call someone a stud in the fifth...but I LOVE what I see and should we re-sign Bulaga I think this is the round we start grabbing OL. Between his late performances and a lineman I expect to perform well at combine/pro days his days of being a 6th-UDFA are over.

Sixth Round - 192nd Overall: Charlie Taumoepeau, TE - Portland State *Here's where my bold prediction card is played and sees us not get a TE until the 6th. I truly think Gute, MLF and Company feel fairly confident with a Lewis resigning and enter the draft with Lewis, Tonyan and Sternberger in our TE room. I expect a mid to late round draft pick and one or two UDFA's to add to the mix come training camp. Charlie is raw, and not ready for immediate time for sure (what 6th round TE is) but I love the flashes he shows and grit. Not too mention that last name is just awesome.

Sixth Round - 209th Overall: Jack Driscoll, OG - Auburn *He is my outside first two days of the draft offensive lineman pick I think will shock some.

Seventh Round - 224th Overall: Tanner Muse, S/LB - Clemson *Kid caught my eye in each game (about 4 all year) I watched out of Clemson, including the natty loss to LSU.

Seventh Round - 242nd Overall: LeVonta Taylor, CB - Florida State *Kid has a world of talent...just seems like a roller coaster of performance partially due to injury. Could be an awesome Nickle guy in the future. His biggest issue is building that frame to be stronger. His vertical is insane.

Seventh Round - 243rd Overall: Scott Frantz, OT - Kent State *Took over at LT at Kent State immediately as a Freshman, but has struggled against top level rushers. Potential roll of the dice type guy.


***AMENDMENT OPTION I COULD SEE PLAY OUT IS DAVIS, DL FROM ALABAMA IS THERE AT #30. WE PICK HIM AND THEN IN THE SECOND ROUND END UP WITH THE LIKES OF AIYUK OR HAMLER.

At least somebody agrees with me around here!

I agree that Lawrence or Gallimore would be great alternatives to Davis.

I don't like Phillips in the 3rd but if there's a run and we can't risk to lose him I'll deal.

I'm neither "high" nor "low" on Pride....let's see what happens.

You dug deep for "T Guy".

As a Florida Man I like Taylor; but you summed it up, smallish frame and already a list of injuries. They only get bigger from here. CB is the one position that I feel Gute will address in FA as there are a TON of options to choose from, for either the short or long term. Let's hear it for Muse though!

Three linemen, I like it.

 

[tynimiller]

At least somebody agrees with me around here!

I agree that Lawrence or Gallimore would be great alternatives to Davis.

I don't like Phillips in the 3rd but if there's a run and we can't risk to lose him I'll deal.

I'm neither "high" nor "low" on Pride....let's see what happens.

You dug deep for "T Guy".

As a Florida Man I like Taylor; but you summed it up, smallish frame and already a list of injuries. They only get bigger from here. CB is the one position that I feel Gute will address in FA as there are a TON of options to choose from, for either the short or long term. Let's hear it for Muse though!

Three linemen, I like it.

Honestly the way my board was shaking one could go elsewhere (maybe a TE) in that 3rd round if were assuming ILB was handled in FA like I posed and for sure that 4th pick would change should we add a 3rd or 4th option guy in FA at CB.

 

[Dantés]

I'll take a stab at this Mock thing...however for my mock I'm predicting the following:

1 - We do get a deal done with Bulaga...and IF Veldheer resigning would happen I think I would re-think OT entirely this draft...or push forward as it stands.

2 - In some fashion, either signing OR trading we get a starting level ILB in someone like Littleton or a few others I've mentioned.

3 - We do not address the obvious #2 WR spot....at BEST we sign an unproven or veteran WR at this point most teams would expect to be a #3 with a chance to provide that #2 style production.


First Round - 30th Overall: *****Reagor or Jefferson****** I believe we will have a choice here, for me it is gonna be down between these two and it all depends on direction of the WR corps thoughts held by the organization. IF we have hopes of having Ervin back and MVS getting comfortable NOT being expected to be the #2 but provide those burners....I think it is Jefferson. However, Reagor offers an entirely different small and blazing fast skillset GB has not truly had to a degree. Purely off a hunch I suspect we go Reagor, WR - TCU

Second Round - 62nd Overall: Rashard Lawrence, DL - LSU *The first of two consecutive LSU players I have us nabbing. Solid hands on the ground guy that I feel immediately makes us stronger along the front. I want Davis (Alabama) to be here, but unlike F>R I just don't think there is enough of a chance he falls this deep.

Third Round - 94th Overall: Jacob Phillips, ILB - LSU: *I completely understand some may get mad given we spent money in FA for Littleton or the likes at ILB, but I would love to see us grab supporting cast that can walk in and play with them. Phillips I am a big fan of and would love to see him with a G on his helmet. Yes I know some have him as a 4th or 5th rounder...but I truly feel he is worth a 3rd the way our off season and first two picks go.

Fourth Round - 133rd Overall: Troy Pride Jr., CB - Notre Dame *I'm telling you right now I predict this guy is undervalued and undergraded IMO. My Irish were not very good this last year IMO, and boy did we SUCK against the pass anytime Pride was not on the field. Often times tasked with the best of the opposition Pride excelled in winning more than losing those battles and while he doesn't have perhaps the flashiness his predecessor Julien Love. Part of me wants to say I'd be shocked he makes it to the Fourth, but than again I know many are not grading him as high as I feel they should. I think 4th onward this man is MORE than justified with a pick.

Fifth Round - 175th Overall: Terrence Steele, OT - Texas Tech *Very tough to call someone a stud in the fifth...but I LOVE what I see and should we re-sign Bulaga I think this is the round we start grabbing OL. Between his late performances and a lineman I expect to perform well at combine/pro days his days of being a 6th-UDFA are over.

Sixth Round - 192nd Overall: Charlie Taumoepeau, TE - Portland State *Here's where my bold prediction card is played and sees us not get a TE until the 6th. I truly think Gute, MLF and Company feel fairly confident with a Lewis resigning and enter the draft with Lewis, Tonyan and Sternberger in our TE room. I expect a mid to late round draft pick and one or two UDFA's to add to the mix come training camp. Charlie is raw, and not ready for immediate time for sure (what 6th round TE is) but I love the flashes he shows and grit. Not too mention that last name is just awesome.

Sixth Round - 209th Overall: Jack Driscoll, OG - Auburn *He is my outside first two days of the draft offensive lineman pick I think will shock some.

Seventh Round - 224th Overall: Tanner Muse, S/LB - Clemson *Kid caught my eye in each game (about 4 all year) I watched out of Clemson, including the natty loss to LSU.

Seventh Round - 242nd Overall: LeVonta Taylor, CB - Florida State *Kid has a world of talent...just seems like a roller coaster of performance partially due to injury. Could be an awesome Nickle guy in the future. His biggest issue is building that frame to be stronger. His vertical is insane.

Seventh Round - 243rd Overall: Scott Frantz, OT - Kent State *Took over at LT at Kent State immediately as a Freshman, but has struggled against top level rushers. Potential roll of the dice type guy.


***AMENDMENT OPTION I COULD SEE PLAY OUT IS DAVIS, DL FROM ALABAMA IS THERE AT #30. WE PICK HIM AND THEN IN THE SECOND ROUND END UP WITH THE LIKES OF AIYUK OR HAMLER.

I'll just comment on the guys I know something about or have watched more intently.

I really like what Reagor could add to the offense as a versatile weapon. He's certainly not developed in his route tree (which is true of most receivers coming out of college) and he has some focus drops. You'd be hard pressed to find another weakness. His speed pops on tape, both before and after the catch. In the routes they did ask of him, he's explosive out of his breaks and can get corners all mixed up. He uses quickness to beat the jam. He's a weapon in the running game and return game. For being a shorter receiver, he plays the ball well in the air.

I really cannot understand the first round buzz for Jefferson. I've watched him more than any other prospect in this class trying to figure it out. He's a big slot who has good ball skills. I don't see plus route running, separation, yards after catch ability, deep speed, or anything else that would make him a desirable prospect. I am not exaggerating when I say I think there will be better receiver prospects on the board at #62.

So obviously I have pretty strong feelings about your either/or proposition at #30.

Troy Pride would be a nice pick in the middle rounds, as he has starter traits that he just never fully realized for Notre Dame.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I really cannot understand the first round buzz for Jefferson. I've watched him more than any other prospect in this class trying to figure it out. He's a big slot who has good ball skills. I don't see plus route running, separation, yards after catch ability, deep speed, or anything else that would make him a desirable prospect. I am not exaggerating when I say I think there will be better receiver prospects on the board at #62.

I'm gonna die laughing from your response I'm sure. But here's the be-all-end-all response that the talking heads like to use:

"He's a football player...."

Jefferson just wins when the ball's coming his way. I get it isn't **** and he doesn't have the over the top measureables; and I suspect he'll place in the middle of the pack at the Combine, but he's a guy you're going to get everything out of. In the terms of Reagor, and to a lesser degree Aiyuk, they may have higher ceilings than Jefferson. To me however, Jefferson is a guy you get guaranteed immediate production from Day 1. Reagor and Aiyuk might eventually outpace Jefferson, but it's in Year Three or maybe Year Four....or maybe never. With Aaron Rodgers being on the wrong side of 35, I'll take Jefferson who might can help us get a title sooner than later.