Eliot Wolf / John Dorsey GM threads?/ Browns - Steelers fight

[Dantés]

If that had been Rodgers, 100% of fans calling Rudolph a ***** would have been apoplectic and calling for Garrett to be banned for life. This is hilarious.

 

[Dantés]

Kid A punches Kid B on the arm. Kid B flicks kid A on the wrist. Kid A picks up a textbook and clobbers Kid B across the face. Kid C runs in and hurls Kid B on the ground.

Definitely Kid B's fault. Chickenshit little ***** for sure.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Kid A punches Kid B on the arm. Kid B flicks kid A on the wrist. Kid A picks up a textbook and clobbers Kid B across the face. Kid C runs in and hurls Kid B on the ground.

Definitely Kid B's fault. Chickenshit little ***** for sure.

Rudolph didn't flick anybody's wrist. He tried to yank a guy's helmet off before he got his yanked and then charged the guy no doubt with some choice words. The fact he's a wimpy QB who couldn't do any damage shouldn't change the perspective.

Nobody is proposing a moral equivalency. Rudolph should get a fine for retaliating (or trying to even if he wasn't very effective) and escalating.

Player A gets flagged for whacking Player B after the whistle. Player B gets up and takes a swing at him and misses. Both get flagged for unsportsmanlike. The fact player A initiatied the kerfuffle doesn't give Player B license.

There's more PR than consistency in not giving Rudolph that somethin' somethin' fine.

Oh, snap! It looks like the the league may be coming to their senses:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...n-rudolph-will-be-fined-for-role-in-tnf-brawl

Rudoph's pending "legal action" is a joke that goes nowhere. It's a deflection.

If that had been Rodgers, 100% of fans calling Rudolph a ***** would have been apoplectic and calling for Garrett to be banned for life. This is hilarious.

Not 100%.

 

[Dantés]

Rudolph didn't flick anybody's wrist. He tried to yank a guy's helmet off before he got his yanked and then charged the guy no doubt with some choice words. The fact he's a wimpy QB who couldn't do any damage shouldn't change the perspective.

Nobody is proposing a moral equivalency. Rudolph should get a fine for retaliating (or trying to even if he wasn't very effective) and escalating.

Player A gets flagged for whacking Player B after the whistle. Player B gets up and takes a swing at him and misses. Both get flagged for unsportsmanlike. The fact player A initiatied the kerfuffle doesn't give Player B license.

There's more PR than consistency in not giving Rudolph that somethin' somethin' fine.

Oh, snap! It looks like the the league may be coming to their senses:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...n-rudolph-will-be-fined-for-role-in-tnf-brawl

Rudoph's pending "legal action" is a joke that goes nowhere. It's a deflection.

Not 100%.

I think a fine would be fine. But yes, compared to what Garrett did, first and last, Rudolph did almost nothing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think a fine would be fine. But yes, compared to what Garrett did, first and last, Rudolph did almost nothing.

It seems you're a little late to that conclusion.

 

[Dantés]

It seems you're a little late to that conclusion.

I never said otherwise. I was disagreeing with the ridiculous criticisms being made of Rudolph in that situation.

 

[Poppa San]

That’s a criminal matter IMO.

Garrett will claim self defense. Rudolph was behind two buddies that had Garrett "in control" and was talking smack. Garrett swung at him with a padded "club" while he was outnumbered. He then was taken to the ground and pummeled which included getting kicked in the head. That is also a criminal offense. Really think this will escalate beyond the NFL? Rudolph is an accomplice if not partaking in "gang activity" along with Pouncey doing the kicking.

 

[Dantés]

Gang activity!! LOL.

I am not saying this needs to escalate beyond the league, but some of the excuses made for Garrett and criticisms made of Rudolph in this thread are maybe the worst takes I've ever seen in this forum. And that's a high bar!

 

[HardRightEdge]

Garrett will claim self defense. Rudolph was behind two buddies that had Garrett "in control" and was talking smack. Garrett swung at him with a padded "club" while he was outnumbered. He then was taken to the ground and pummeled which included getting kicked in the head. That is also a criminal offense. Really think this will escalate beyond the NFL? Rudolph is an accomplice if not partaking in "gang activity" along with Pouncey doing the kicking.

The idea this will get anywhere near a courtroom is laughable. The cops already said they have no plans to investigate. I'm sure they got a good chuckle back at the precinct house. Rudolph would have to file a police report and press charges. LOL

His agent was just deflecting from his own complicity. The NFL came to their senses and gave him a deserved fine. I don't know the amount, but I'd give him $15k for the helmet yank and $15k for the charge of the light brigade.

Civil court? That's about monetary damages. There are none. The only damage might be to Rudolph's ego. That's not actionalbe. If it were half the nation would be employed in the courts.

 

[Dantés]

Had Garrett connected with a different part of the helmet and cracked Rudolph's skull open, he would be in a cell or out on bail right now. It makes perfect sense why someone would argue that this could potentially be a legal matter. Garrett is just lucky that he wasn't more successful with that swing. That's the only reason that it will remain at the league level only.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Had Garrett connected with a different part of the helmet and cracked Rudolph's skull open, he would be in a cell or out on bail right now.

Maybe, maybe not. He didn't, though, and that makes a big difference.

 

[Dantés]

Maybe, maybe not. He didn't, though, and that makes a big difference.

Yes, it does. The difference between a suspension and a cell. It's similar to the difference between murder and attempted murder in that he's getting off lighter only because he wasn't successful in carrying out what he tried to do.

 

[AmishMafia]

Gang activity!! LOL.

I am not saying this needs to escalate beyond the league, but some of the excuses made for Garrett and criticisms made of Rudolph in this thread are maybe the worst takes I've ever seen in this forum. And that's a high bar!

Nobody made any excuses for Garrett. You completely made that up.

I think a fine would be fine. But yes, compared to what Garrett did, first and last, Rudolph did almost nothing.

So Rudolph did wrong but is above criticism because someone did something worse later.


That is the dumbest take in this whole matter as far as I'm concerned.

 

[AKCheese]

Rudolph getting off virtually scot free after starting the entire “post whistle” fracas is absurd. But he’s a QB (among other things) so....

I think it would be great if they suspended them TOGETHER and let them “work things out” and apply for reinstatement together.

All the “whatifism” regarding the helmet swing? What if Pouncey’s kick to the head had been a little more accuate?

why is this under a John Dorsey GM thread?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes, it does. The difference between a suspension and a cell.

That's already been acknowleged as a "maybe" and not to the point of what actually happened.

It's similar to the difference between murder and attempted murder in that he's getting off lighter only because he wasn't successful in carrying out what he tried to do.

Actually, if we took this to the street, it's the difference between assault, attempted assault, or nothing.

In this case one Crip already had his hands on the alledged Blood offender while a second Crip came running at that Blood, as wimpy as he may appear. The Blood takes a swing at the wimpy Crip with his club, all but misses, and then the wimpy Crip backs off and it's pretty much over. That's not going anywhere in court unless there are outstanding warrants.

Attempted assault in this case is going nowhere in court. Considering context, with facts also insufficient, the NFL is a stylized form of gang warfare. If it wasn't viewed that way Vontaze Burfict would be serving multiple felony counts. What happens before the whistle vs. a few seconds after does not radically alter the context.

The NFL, on the other hand, has their own interests and rules, and we like to see fairness and consistency in the application of those rules. Randolph gets his fine (we think at the moment), which is proportional.

 

[HardRightEdge]

why isis this under a John Dorsey GM thread?

Because there is alleged to be a long series bad bahaviors among players that Dorsey has chosen to collect. That is in fact a credible allegation.

 

[Mondio]

So Rudolph did wrong but is above criticism because someone did something worse later.


.

For me it's more a matter of nothing really all that unordinary happened up until that point. Garrett was giving a little extra there to end the game, Rudolph didn't like it and let him know. Most times there's just some extra pushing and shoving and it's over. yeah Rudolph grabbed his helmet, yes it was wrong. Garrett than drug him around like a rag doll by the face mask to rip it off after he already took his little extra shot. he was walked back by an olineman as he should have been. Definitely elevated at this point, but still nothing I haven't seen before. Even Rudolphs reaction after that was not all that abnormal considering. What happened next could have been very, very much worse had the crown of that helmet come down square on his skull. It should be what is driving the conversation.
Pouncy shouldn't have been punching or kicking, but given what just transpired I can accept it, just as he can accept his suspension which is fair. had he ripped his helmet off and had his way with him, I wouldn't be as forgiving. But he didn't.

 

[Dantés]

Nobody made any excuses for Garrett. You completely made that up.

So Rudolph did wrong but is above criticism because someone did something worse later.

That is the dumbest take in this whole matter as far as I'm concerned.

Literally the post right above mine contained what I was referring to. This isn't that hard.

No, Rudolph is not above criticism. Like I said, he has some small part of responsibility and I think a fine is justifiable. He did grab at Garrett's helmet and he did confront Garrett. I totally understand what he did, but I also understand why it gets fined.

But the specific criticisms that YOU made (e.g. he's chickenshit for trying to get in Garrett's face when the OL were present; Garrett just finished what the "little *****" tried) are ridiculously stupid. That's what I've been saying.

 

[Dantés]

That's already been acknowleged as a "maybe" and not to the point of what actually happened.

Actually, if we took this to the street, it's the difference between assault, attempted assault, or nothing.

In this case one Crip already had his hands on the alledged Blood offender while a second Crip came running at that Blood, as wimpy as he may appear. The Blood takes a swing at the wimpy Crip with his club, all but misses, and then the wimpy Crip backs off and it's pretty much over. That's not going anywhere in court unless there are outstanding warrants.

Attempted assault in this case is going nowhere in court. Considering context, with facts also insufficient, the NFL is a stylized form of gang warfare. If it wasn't viewed that way Vontaze Burfict would be serving multiple felony counts. What happens before the whistle vs. a few seconds after does not radically alter the context.

The NFL, on the other hand, has their own interests and rules, and we like to see fairness and consistency in the application of those rules. Randolph gets his fine (we think at the moment), which is proportional.

It's similar, as I suggested, because Garrett saved himself more serious trouble through his failure to connect better. That's essentially undeniable.

Your comparison is ridiculous. If two people are pushing, shoving, and yelling, and one grabs a blunt object and bashes it over the head of another, that person is in serious legal trouble. Period.

 

[AmishMafia]

Literally the post right above mine contained what I was referring to. This isn't that hard.

No, Rudolph is not above criticism. Like I said, he has some small part of responsibility and I think a fine is justifiable. He did grab at Garrett's helmet and he did confront Garrett. I totally understand what he did, but I also understand why it gets fined.

But the specific criticisms that YOU made (e.g. he's chickenshit for trying to get in Garrett's face when the OL were present; Garrett just finished what the "little *****" tried) are ridiculously stupid. That's what I've been saying.

Anytime you pick a fight and get beat by a guy much bigger and stronger than you are, and 2 of your big buddies pull him off you, and you get up and go after the guy: that is a chickenshit move in most people's books.

In reality, his teammates should have stepped aside and let Rudolph have a piece of Garrett if he wants it so bad. Garrett didn't need the helmet weapon.

 

[Dantés]

Anytime you pick a fight and get beat by a guy much bigger and stronger than you are, and 2 of your big buddies pull him off you, and you get up and go after the guy: that is a chickenshit move in most people's books.

In reality, his teammates should have stepped aside and let Rudolph have a piece of Garrett if he wants it so bad. Garrett didn't need the helmet weapon.

Rudolph did not pick a fight. He reacted to a dirty play by a dirty player on a dirty team, during a game in which the Browns had been playing dirty all night. Garrett created the situation with his actions on that play. People acting as though the mere attempt to grab at Garrett's helmet on the ground initiated the whole thing are either ignorant of what happened beforehand (not to mention the context of the game), or choosing to ignore it.

If it's "chickenshit" to do what Rudolph did in "most people's books," then I have to wonder why so few people seem to share your take. I find it bizarre that you think Rudolph somehow should have changed his emotional reaction in the moment simply because some of his offensive linemen were present. What he did, while not the best reaction as it escalated the situation, was 100% understandable.

On the one hand, I'm hearing a lot of "Garrett just reacted to what Rudolph started" (B.S.-- Garrett started it) and "Garrett was just reacting to being outnumbered" (B.S.-- he didn't swing simply because an offensive lineman was present), and on the other, that Rudolph should have somehow calmly assessed that his OL were present and chosen not to confront the dirty piece of **** that just hit him late in a game that was over and then ripped his helmet off by the face mask. And for some reason you're shaming Rudolph as some sort of coward because his OL were there? That's just a garbage take.

Obviously Garrett is capable of beating up Rudolph. He's a hulking defensive end. That has nothing to do with anything.

 

[AmishMafia]

For me it's more a matter of nothing really all that unordinary happened up until that point. Garrett was giving a little extra there to end the game, Rudolph didn't like it and let him know. Most times there's just some extra pushing and shoving and it's over. yeah Rudolph grabbed his helmet, yes it was wrong. Garrett than drug him around like a rag doll by the face mask to rip it off after he already took his little extra shot. he was walked back by an olineman as he should have been. Definitely elevated at this point, but still nothing I haven't seen before. Even Rudolphs reaction after that was not all that abnormal considering. What happened next could have been very, very much worse had the crown of that helmet come down square on his skull. It should be what is driving the conversation.
Pouncy shouldn't have been punching or kicking, but given what just transpired I can accept it, just as he can accept his suspension which is fair. had he ripped his helmet off and had his way with him, I wouldn't be as forgiving. But he didn't.

Okay. I get that.

As I stated in the begining

But what he did should come under severe consequences. There are no excuse for what he did.

To me that's that as far as Garrett is concerned.

But if this whole incident occured without the helmet assault by Garrett, I would feel the same way about Rudolph. What Garrett did later has no bearing on that.

 

[AmishMafia]

. . . what happened beforehand (not to mention the context of the game), or .

Now who is making excuses . . .

 

[Dantés]

Now who is making excuses . . .

That would be me. Obviously. I am making excuses for Rudolph.

He should not have grabbed at Garrett's helmet and in a perfect world, he doesn't confront Garrett. So the league fined him, and I think that's about right. But I 100% understand his reaction to a dirty play/player.

 

[Mavster]

So what I'm hearing is that the worst thing Rudolph did here was attempt to get Garrett's helmet off (possibly), then said some choice words to Garrett after his own helmet had been ripped off by the guy?

What a dirty act that has never once occurred before on an NFL field LOL

The fact is if Garrett doesn't complete lose his mind like an emotional midget & smash a guy's skull using a helmet as a weapon this would be a complete non-story.