Eliot Wolf / John Dorsey GM threads?/ Browns - Steelers fight

[ls1bob]

I think with ownership’s track record with coaches and GM’s since he has been there Dorsey was pretty much destined to not keep his job.Baylor coach wouldn’t even interview with Cleveland if that tells you anything.

 

[gonzozab]

I think with ownership’s track record with coaches and GM’s since he has been there Dorsey was pretty much destined to not keep his job.Baylor coach wouldn’t even interview with Cleveland if that tells you anything.

A coach that took a job at a place that was going through one of the greatest and most disturbing scandals in sports history at that.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

The knee jerk reaction is for us to add Dorsey back, but who would he replace...?

 

[Curly Calhoun]

That's what happens when you pick the wrong Head Coach (Kitchens) and, as it turned out, the wrong quarterback:


Dorsey’s signature draft pick was Baker Mayfield, selected No. 1 overall in 2018. But Mayfield tumbled to second-to-last in QB rating (78.8) under Kitchens, and the Browns must get him back on track in 2020. Mayfield paled in comparison this season to Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson, who was picked No. 32 in 2018. An MVP candidate, Jackson threw 36 touchdowns against six interceptions, and finished sixth in the NFL in rushing.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...ting-with-jimmy-haslam-today-reports-say.html


Hindsight is 20-20, but when you swing and miss that badly there's often a heavy price to pay.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

That's what happens when you pick the wrong Head Coach (Kitchens) and, as it turned out, the wrong quarterback:


Dorsey’s signature draft pick was Baker Mayfield, selected No. 1 overall in 2018. But Mayfield tumbled to second-to-last in QB rating (78.8) under Kitchens, and the Browns must get him back on track in 2020. Mayfield paled in comparison this season to Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson, who was picked No. 32 in 2018. An MVP candidate, Jackson threw 36 touchdowns against six interceptions, and finished sixth in the NFL in rushing.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...ting-with-jimmy-haslam-today-reports-say.html


Hindsight is 20-20, but when you swing and miss that badly there's often a heavy price to pay.

I wouldn't be so quick to write off Mayfield. He was a lock top 10 QB this year in a lot of people's minds prior to the actual season. Give him a year or two under someone who has half a brain and then we'll chat. I think Freddie Kitchens was a moron who had no right to call plays, let alone be a HC, especially over Monken (our runner up for HC).

 

[Dantés]

The knee jerk reaction is for us to add Dorsey back, but who would he replace...?

Screw that. I want no part of that sleeze ball.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Screw that. I want no part of that sleeze ball.

The sleeze ball who's essentially built the chiefs and browns? Outside of qb and a few olinemen I'd take almost every offensive player on the Brown's over who we have. Defensively they have some studs as well.

The chiefs may make the SuperBowl this year.

Again, he'd be an assistant to Gute but I'm thinking someone signs him to be their gm.

 

[Dantés]

The sleeze ball who's essentially built the chiefs and browns? Outside of qb and a few olinemen I'd take almost every offensive player on the Brown's over who we have. Defensively they have some studs as well.

The chiefs may make the SuperBowl this year.

Again, he'd be an assistant to Gute but I'm thinking someone signs him to be their gm.

Built the Browns... you say that like it's an accomplishment. That team is a pile of crap.

The sleeze ball who uses cowards who like to hit women as his competitive advantage. Screw that guy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Don't you guys see Wolf taking over as GM?

Maybe. McCarthy will be interviewing for the HC job in Cleveland. There might be a cause and effect there, maybe coincidence.

But behind that speculation lies a question I asked when Wolf was in Green Bay and I'll ask it again now:

What's the evidence that Wolf is any good as a talent evaluator, a roster builder, or that he has the temperament to run a shop, especially this shop chock-o-block with bad actors, big mouths, look-at-me brand builders and wannabe celebrities? You can get away with that stuff if you're winning; cleaning up the sh*t that hit the fan with losing is a big job that will take a few years and in the mean time these cats must be herded. Building a winning culture requires both special talents and temperament.

Insiders who have worked with Wolf would have an idea if there's anything there. The Packers preferred Gutekunst. The Browns may have a similar perspective with respect to Wolf vs. other candidates.

Who his father is doesn't count for much. Talent often skips a generation. Has anybody seen those scouting reports he was writing when he was ten years old? For all we know they were written in crayon.

Prodigy or stuffed shirt? Who can tell? Insiders maybe, not us. Whatever hand Wolf might have had in those last five or so Thompson drafts would not be a credential to brag about. Or were Wolf's table-pounding recommendations that were passed over go on to wild success elsewhere? Who knows?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Built the Browns... you say that like it's an accomplishment. That team is a pile of crap.

The sleeze ball who uses cowards who like to hit women as his competitive advantage. Screw that guy.

The Brown's last year were touted as a new coaches dream job. The error was hiring Kitchens and not Monken or McCarthy - or really anybody else. I won't comment much on the Hunt signing, I'll just say that their were a lot of teams considering signing him. I wouldn't fault Dorsey for taking him. He hasn't been a cancer or malcontent - and green bay has had its share of poor character players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers front office has mostly done a great job over the past two seasons, therefore I don't see any need to think about bringing Dorsey or Wolf back.

The sleeze ball who's essentially built the chiefs and browns? Outside of qb and a few olinemen I'd take almost every offensive player on the Brown's over who we have. Defensively they have some studs as well.

Yet the Browns ended up scoring 41 points less than the Packers while giving up 80 more. Of course they won seven less games as well.

 

[weeds]

I was surprised by Dorsey's firing although someone had to take the hit to head after all of the national media hoopla this off season. I for one knew it was doomed to failure because position coaches being promoted to HC are very rarely successful. I guess Andy Reid and may, Jon Gruden being the exceptions (and both from the Holmgren/Walsh coaching tree).

I sincerely doubt that Dorsey would have been on board with the hiring of Kitchens. It's my understanding of the structure in Cleveland that a committee exists for the hiring of head coaches. Dorsey and Wolf were ostensibly on that committee, as were the husband and wife truck stop owners - who have a history of meddling in football operations. In any event, that club is going to stink until ownership keeps their nose out of football operations in Cleveland.

That situation is very similar to Green Bay prior to Ron Wolf's arrival. The Packers Board of Directors Executive Committee had often been blamed for meddling in football operations and it was Bob Harland who recognized the problem and rectified it once ascending to the Club Presidency. Surely the owners should be involved in all aspects but to a near-nothing level in football operations versus business operations. The Pack have a clear line of delineation that outfits like the Browns and Cowboys and Redskins clearly do not. Egotistical billionaires can cause real issues. The only thing separating those clubs and the Patriots is Bill Bellichik.

Just my two cents - and my opinion and a bus token won't get you across town - but, Cleveland and their fans deserve better. I've always had a soft spot for Cleveland.

 

[Notso]

I was surprised that McCarthy didn't even get an interview with the Browns last year. Now, Dorsey is out and McCarthy IS getting an interview.

Also, Deadspin's "hit piece" on McCarthy, Rodgers and the Packers a while back was full of quotes from "an unnamed source outside the organization." It certainly sounded at that time like Dorsey or Wolf were that source.

Knowing how much Haslam likes to meddle, I can't help but wonder if there was trouble between Dorsey and McCarthy, and Dorsey flat-out refused to even look at McCarthy. Now Haslam wants McCarthy or at least wants him interviewed, so Dorsey is gone.

According to the Cleveland press, McCarthy is interviewing for the job on Thursday.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was surprised that McCarthy didn't even get an interview with the Browns last year. Now, Dorsey is out and McCarthy IS getting an interview.

According to a report I read yesterday McCarthy declined an interview for the Browns job last offseason.

 

[Notso]

According to a report I read yesterday McCarthy declined an interview for the Browns job last offseason.

Everything I read had it the other way. But even if he did decline, why did he decline? And why is he now accepting the interview? What changed, other than Dorsey?

Edit: I just did some poking around that says he declined because the Browns mandated Freddie Kitchens stay on as OC. The question there is, who mandated it? Dorsey, or Haslam?

 

[weeds]

I was surprised that McCarthy didn't even get an interview with the Browns last year. Now, Dorsey is out and McCarthy IS getting an interview.

Also, Deadspin's "hit piece" on McCarthy, Rodgers and the Packers a while back was full of quotes from "an unnamed source outside the organization." It certainly sounded at that time like Dorsey or Wolf were that source.

Knowing how much Haslam likes to meddle, I can't help but wonder if there was trouble between Dorsey and McCarthy, and Dorsey flat-out refused to even look at McCarthy. Now Haslam wants McCarthy or at least wants him interviewed, so Dorsey is gone.

According to the Cleveland press, McCarthy is interviewing for the job on Thursday.

That's what I heard as well. He stated his only interest was in the Jets job (presumably because of Darnold) and then withdrew from consideration after seeing first-hand what a sh*t-show the Johnson's were running there.

Truthfully, I think that Coach Mc in Cleveland would be a freepin' nightmare for him - purely from an ownership standpoint... because a strong General Manager position model, given the current ownership there, is not a real possibility.

Yes, I believe Mike McCarthy will be an NFL coach again and yes, I think he'll be successful again if he goes to an organization with raw young talent at QB1. The guy was a helluva coach here who was run over by circumstances ... some of his own making ... but a helluva coach nonetheless. ..and no ... he rode nobody's coattails to those success levels. Say all you want about two HOF QB's and, whatever, but ... he re-machined Favre from the Sherman turnover machine and essentially made Rodgers an NFL QB. Talent at QB to be sure ... how that talent is utilized is a different matter.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Everything I read had it the other way. But even if he did decline, why did he decline? And why is he now accepting the interview? What changed, other than Dorsey?

Edit: I just did some poking around that says he declined because the Browns mandated Freddie Kitchens stay on as OC. The question there is, who mandated it? Dorsey, or Haslam?

I don't know anything about the reasons behind it but PFT mentioned that McCarthy declined to interview with the Browns last season.

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[Notso]

Here's my edit to the post above:

Edit: I just did some poking around that says he declined because the Browns mandated Freddie Kitchens stay on as OC. The question there is, who mandated it? Dorsey, or Haslam?

I believe it, but only because I found sources other than PFT. I believe NOTHING from Florio as pertains to the Packers, Mike McCarthy, and/or Aaron Rodgers. Especially Aaron Rodgers. Florio is likely STILL trying to push his narrative about Rodgers and LaFleur not getting along.

 

[Notso]

That's what I heard as well. He stated his only interest was in the Jets job (presumably because of Darnold) and then withdrew from consideration after seeing first-hand what a sh*t-show the Johnson's were running there.

Truthfully, I think that Coach Mc in Cleveland would be a freepin' nightmare for him - purely from an ownership standpoint... because a strong General Manager position model, given the current ownership there, is not a real possibility.

Yes, I believe Mike McCarthy will be an NFL coach again and yes, I think he'll be successful again if he goes to an organization with raw young talent at QB1. The guy was a helluva coach here who was run over by circumstances ... some of his own making ... but a helluva coach nonetheless. ..and no ... he rode nobody's coattails to those success levels. Say all you want about two HOF QB's and, whatever, but ... he re-machined Favre from the Sherman turnover machine and essentially made Rodgers an NFL QB. Talent at QB to be sure ... how that talent is utilized is a different matter.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm really hoping he goes to Cleveland. McCarthy's work with Aaron Rodgers' mechanics, coupled with the fact that he's the only man alive other than Mike Holmgren that was ever able to "reign in" Brett Favre, seem like just what the doctor ordered for a "big personality" like Baker Mayfield.

 

[weeds]

I agree to a point.... 100% on all but Cleveland. I think that in Cleveland, there needs to be a strong GM with VP Football Operations control to insulate the football people from ownership though. I'm not sure what that likelihood is, I'd guess slim to none. The one job I DON'T want to see Mc in is the Giants. I'd like him nice and safe in the AFC. If anyone has Rodgers' tendencies documented, it's McCarthy. In case you can't tell, I like Coach Mc ... always have even though I was a LOT surprised when the Pack hired him. Turned out to be a good call.

 

[Notso]

I like McCarthy as well. I've also been pulling for the Browns ever since they came back into existence so McCarthy to Cleveland would be ideal (for me).

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I wouldn't be so quick to write off Mayfield. He was a lock top 10 QB this year in a lot of people's minds prior to the actual season. Give him a year or two under someone who has half a brain and then we'll chat. I think Freddie Kitchens was a moron who had no right to call plays, let alone be a HC, especially over Monken (our runner up for HC).

I'm not writing him off, I'm just pointing out he has not been anywhere near as good as the guy picked 31 spots after him by a division rival. That couldn't have set too well with the folks in the front office.

 

[Dantés]

The Brown's last year were touted as a new coaches dream job. The error was hiring Kitchens and not Monken or McCarthy - or really anybody else. I won't comment much on the Hunt signing, I'll just say that their were a lot of teams considering signing him. I wouldn't fault Dorsey for taking him. He hasn't been a cancer or malcontent - and green bay has had its share of poor character players.

Dorsey has a pattern of taking value on guys who fall or become available because other teams don't want them because they like to hit women and children. He's trash.

The Browns have some talented players, but it's been overstated. The media also didn't consider anything beyond the individual talent level of each player.

When you stuff a locker room full of thugs, divas, and idiots, you're asking to be less than the sum of your parts.

 

[HardRightEdge]

When you stuff a locker room full of thugs, divas, and idiots, you're asking to be less than the sum of your parts.

That bolded passage sums up the risk you take with these kinds of guys.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Can we stop calling them thugs please?

Call them self-entitled, malcontents, spoiled, etc whatever.

But I'm pretty sure 99% of that locker room has little more than a speeding ticket, maybe a marijuana related misdemeanor and that's it....the same can be said about the rest of the league.

Maybe this is because I'm African-American, but it just gets under my skin when people just go out of their way to place that label on someone.


Yes, I get Hunt had a domestic violence charge, but that's come and gone now. The NFL has fettered out its justice, and that's good enough for me. Let the man hopefully try to live out the rest of his life in peace.

I've had a handful of soldiers in my command distribute drugs, beat their wives, even killed someone due to DUI, but I never labeled them as thugs. None of them are obviously soldiers anymore, and the Army has dispensed its justice as well. But I hope that they can somehow eventually find peace and success in their now shattered lives.


I get it, they're millionaires and it's a privilege to play this game. But let's not forget they're still human and sometimes make the same mistakes that millions of other "regular" people make every day.