Defensive Coordinator Candidates

[games]

Meanwhile, in the Windy City:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Ya.. it's just an interview and I know he had a good defense with the Rams, but they also had elite talent. Chargers have some very elite talent, the team gave up on him and let the Raiders drop 63 on him. It could work out, but man I feel like I'd rather take a chance on someone else.

If you need a strong voice and proven track record, there's Wink. However, he might ruffle too many feathers.

I like the idea of pulling someone from that Ravens staff like Chris Hewitt and if that turned out to be a swing and a miss, it would be much more palatable I think.

Also like the idea of Jesse Minter, but he might follow Harbs.

Only time will tell.

 

[Firethorn1001]

MLF is seemingly incapable of looking outside his 'tree'. I can't rationalize it, but I just really don't want any part of Staley.

 

[adambr2]

I know I'm in the vast minority but I would have zero problem if Staley is the hire. Not saying he is my top choice but he's very intelligent and creative and knows how to the get the most of his defenses. He was extremely successful as the Rams DC.

There is a long list of highly successful DCs who couldn't handle the more encompassing role of HC and it's entirely possible Staley is one of them.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

No longer playing with house money, Matt LaFleur faces a big choice

www.acmepackingcompany.com

Barry to stay on in a different role? Wtf?

This with the Staley interview kind of lines up. He was the linebackers coach with the Rams when Staley was DC...

 

[AmishMafia]

I know I'm in the vast minority but I would have zero problem if Staley is the hire. Not saying he is my top choice but he's very intelligent and creative and knows how to the get the most of his defenses. He was extremely successful as the Rams DC.

There is a long list of highly successful DCs who couldn't handle the more encompassing role of HC and it's entirely possible Staley is one of them.

I'm with you. I saw what I thought was some of the worst defensive play from the Chargers this last season. But when he focused on just being a DC, he was very good.

Head Coach is a lot different job than a coordinator position. Failing as a HC doesn't mean you can't be a great DC. Not sure why the SD defense a stunk with the Chargers. Good question for the interview.

I heard a quote about him that he was a "Generational defensive mind" which has me curious. He moved up the ranks quickly and must have some skills about him. And maybe he comes with Derwin James.

 

[AmishMafia]

This with the Staley interview kind of lines up. He was the linebackers coach with the Rams when Staley was DC...

Interesting.

 

[Magooch]

I can’t remember where I read it, may have already been posted, but apparently Chris Harris is back on the radar as a candidate? Iirc he was one of the “finalists” before Barry’s hire.

 

[mradtke66]

He is being mentioned for Eagles job as well. He can do wonders with the secondary

I hope he is legitimately being considered. The cynic in me wonders if this isn't a Rooney rule sort of box-checking.

IMHO, the most-likely best-case is he is being considered, but not strongly. This gives him a chance to go through the interview process, learn the questions being asked, and practice his responses. I know I've applied for jobs that I only barely qualify for and didn't expect to get just for the interview experiencce.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If you need a strong voice and proven track record, there's Wink. However, he might ruffle too many feathers.

And what has he done with the Giants the last two years? Giants were near the bottom in points and yards allowed this year.

 

[PackerDNA]

It's always a tough call. You've got a guy who's considered a great position coach that doesn't mean he's going to be a great DC. It's like great players aren't automatically going to be great head coaches -see Bart Starr and Forest Gregg.
My understanding is that Barry was widely respected as a linebackers coach. It didn't work out for him as a DC. The only thing I feel bad about is Joe is widely respected as a person and everything I've read as people think he's such a great guy. I truly wish him the best, and I wouldn't be against him coming back as linebackers coach.

 

[Dantés]

Brandon Staley would not be my first choice, but if he's the hire, it's going to be way more unpopular than it ought to be simply because it's the same style of defense and because Staley flopped as the head coach of the Chargers.

Staley is young and his track record is too short to be definitive about him. But there are indications that he could be a really brilliant defensive mind.

His Rams' defense in 2020 was about as good as we've seen in recent years. People who don't want to give him any credit for that just point to personnel, but that isn't a very fair critique. Consider, in 2019 (under Wade Philips) the Rams had virtually the same personnel on defense that they featured in 2020. Donald and Ramsey were there, as were Brockers and SJD on the defensive line. The biggest difference is that the 2019 Rams had Dante Fowler (11.5 sacks, 16 TFL) and the 2020 Rams had Leonard Floyd (10.5 sacks, 11 TFL).

2019 Rams Defense:

-22.8 Points/Game Allowed
-1.83 Points/Drive Allowed
-39.4% 3rd Down Conversion Allowed
-63.5% Red Zone Touchdown Allowed

2020 Rams Defense:

-18.5 Points/Game Allowed
-1.47 Points/Drive Allowed
-35.4% 3rd Down Conversion Allowed
-58.7% Red Zone Touchdown Allowed

So Staley took over, the defense had virtually the same personnel, and it improved dramatically. So it doesn't make sense to just say "it wasn't him; it was the players." It reminds me of how people talked about LaFleur when he took over the Packers. There was a broad media narrative that it was just Rodgers. And yet what was Rodgers doing for the ~4 years before LaFleur? Being mediocre. Yes, Staley had great players with the Rams. He also maximized them, and that's what you want to see in a defensive mind.

As for the Chargers, his defenses there were not very good and that's a legit criticism. What I will say, not by way of excuse but rather by way of context, is that the Chargers are one of, if not the worst organization in football and it's a very hard place to succeed.

So was Staley a flash in the pan who is out of ideas? Is he a great defensive mind who wasn't suited to being a head coach? It's difficult to say at this point. The jury should be out; but for most people, trapped by recency bias, they're going to act as though it's perfectly clear and he just sucks.

 

[Dantés]

And what has he done with the Giants the last two years? Giants were near the bottom in points and yards allowed this year.

Wink got fired in Baltimore and failed in New York, but everyone loves him because he's fat, looks like a bulldog, wears flat bills and cut off hoodies, has a fun nickname, and likes to blitz.

We've also seen recently how locker rooms can and do blow up when the staff isn't suited to work together. Fans love to say "stop hiring your friends and go find the best guy." But the best guy is the one who is qualified AND fits well with the staff. ***** hired the "dream team" in Carolina and it sucked. Daboll brought in Martindale and they hated each other.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Wink got fired in Baltimore and failed in New York, but everyone loves him because he's fat, looks like a bulldog, wears flat bills and cut off hoodies, has a fun nickname, and likes to blitz.

We've also seen recently how locker rooms can and do blow up when the staff isn't suited to work together. Fans love to say "stop hiring your friends and go find the best guy." But the best guy is the one who is qualified AND fits well with the staff. ***** hired the "dream team" in Carolina and it sucked. Daboll brought in Martindale and they hated each other.

I just instinctively want to pass on a guy named after a gameshow host.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

And what has he done with the Giants the last two years? Giants were near the bottom in points and yards allowed this year.

You mean the defense that was tied for first in turnovers created this year? That whole team is talent deficient and the offense definitely put them in horrible situations. Their offense was ranked 29th in total offense. One look at Winks history with the Ravens and how everyone raves about his schemes should give you an idea of his capability as a defensive mind and coordinator.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Wink got fired in Baltimore and failed in New York, but everyone loves him because he's fat, looks like a bulldog, wears flat bills and cut off hoodies, has a fun nickname, and likes to blitz.

We've also seen recently how locker rooms can and do blow up when the staff isn't suited to work together. Fans love to say "stop hiring your friends and go find the best guy." But the best guy is the one who is qualified AND fits well with the staff. ***** hired the "dream team" in Carolina and it sucked. Daboll brought in Martindale and they hated each other.

Which is why I said he might ruffle some feathers and not be a good fit. His schemes are very well respected, but he does rub people the wrong way so I'd understand why we would pass. However, there is no denying that he's fielded some pretty damn good defenses in his time.

 

[BrokenArrow]

You mean the defense that was tied for first in turnovers created this year? That whole team is talent deficient and the offense definitely put them in horrible situations. Their offense was ranked 29th in total offense. One look at Winks history with the Ravens and how everyone raves about his schemes should give you an idea of his capability as a defensive mind and coordinator.

I don't know. I think I'm with Dantes on this one. He's not high on the list to me. I mean, how do you hire the guy whose D is 30th in DVOA when you're trying to win a Super Bowl?

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

I don't know. I think I'm with Dantes on this one. He's not high on the list to me. I mean, how do you hire the guy whose D is 30th in DVOA when you're trying to win a Super Bowl?

It was one of his worst tackling teams for sure. That's why they wanted to fire his right hand man Drew Wilkins who was the linebackers coach. Again, another knock on him getting too attached to "his guys", but those linebackers were also pretty terrible.

Chargers were 19th in DVOA btw. Another reason I'm for taking someone from the Ravens staff and giving them a shot. Specifically Chris Hewitt.

 

[Schultz]

I know I'm in the vast minority but I would have zero problem if Staley is the hire. Not saying he is my top choice but he's very intelligent and creative and knows how to the get the most of his defenses. He was extremely successful as the Rams DC.

There is a long list of highly successful DCs who couldn't handle the more encompassing role of HC and it's entirely possible Staley is one of them.

Small sample size as D.C. for the Rams is a concern for me.

 

[Dantés]

Which is why I said he might ruffle some feathers and not be a good fit. His schemes are very well respected, but he does rub people the wrong way so I'd understand why we would pass. However, there is no denying that he's fielded some pretty damn good defenses in his time.

Sure. I didn't take issue with anything you said.

What's most damning to me with Martindale isn't that his Giants defenses have been bad-- the personnel hasn't really been there. It's more what happened in Baltimore. He took over an elite defense and, to his great credit, sustained it. But it eventually really fell apart under him and rebounded in a huge way after he left.

That is also a stellar organization and coaching staff. If they see fit to fire a guy, there are bound to be good reasons.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

The other part that is pretty concerning about Staley is that a lot of the rumors from the Chargers were that he didn't want to adjust to his player's strengths and was adamant that he needed the right personnel. I hope if we hire him, we have what he needs because we've been through that before. A good coach should be able to adjust to the talent on the team.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Sure. I didn't take issue with anything you said.

What's most damning to me with Martindale isn't that his Giants defenses have been bad-- the personnel hasn't really been there. It's more what happened in Baltimore. He took over an elite defense and, to his great credit, sustained it. But it eventually really fell apart under him and rebounded in a huge way after he left.

That is also a stellar organization and coaching staff. If they see fit to fire a guy, there are bound to be good reasons.

Sorry if it came off as I was arguing with you, that was not the case. I definitely see your point with Wink.

 

[games]

Brandon Staley would not be my first choice, but if he's the hire, it's going to be way more unpopular than it ought to be simply because it's the same style of defense and because Staley flopped as the head coach of the Chargers.

Staley is young and his track record is too short to be definitive about him. But there are indications that he could be a really brilliant defensive mind.

His Rams' defense in 2020 was about as good as we've seen in recent years. People who don't want to give him any credit for that just point to personnel, but that isn't a very fair critique. Consider, in 2019 (under Wade Philips) the Rams had virtually the same personnel on defense that they featured in 2020. Donald and Ramsey were there, as were Brockers and SJD on the defensive line. The biggest difference is that the 2019 Rams had Dante Fowler (11.5 sacks, 16 TFL) and the 2020 Rams had Leonard Floyd (10.5 sacks, 11 TFL).

2019 Rams Defense:

-22.8 Points/Game Allowed
-1.83 Points/Drive Allowed
-39.4% 3rd Down Conversion Allowed
-63.5% Red Zone Touchdown Allowed

2020 Rams Defense:

-18.5 Points/Game Allowed
-1.47 Points/Drive Allowed
-35.4% 3rd Down Conversion Allowed
-58.7% Red Zone Touchdown Allowed

So Staley took over, the defense had virtually the same personnel, and it improved dramatically. So it doesn't make sense to just say "it wasn't him; it was the players." It reminds me of how people talked about LaFleur when he took over the Packers. There was a broad media narrative that it was just Rodgers. And yet what was Rodgers doing for the ~4 years before LaFleur? Being mediocre. Yes, Staley had great players with the Rams. He also maximized them, and that's what you want to see in a defensive mind.

As for the Chargers, his defenses there were not very good and that's a legit criticism. What I will say, not by way of excuse but rather by way of context, is that the Chargers are one of, if not the worst organization in football and it's a very hard place to succeed.

So was Staley a flash in the pan who is out of ideas? Is he a great defensive mind who wasn't suited to being a head coach? It's difficult to say at this point. The jury should be out; but for most people, trapped by recency bias, they're going to act as though it's perfectly clear and he just sucks.

I gave you a "Wow" for this really thoughtful analysis. Good stuff.

Part of my recency bias with Staley is the 60-burger they gave up to the Raiders.
Obviously, he was the HC, but he definitely lost the team.

 

[PackerDNA]

This is where you have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. I had read a few days ago that Staley was not even so much going to be considered for an interview, and yet here he is. Another article I read was the problem with Staley was his schemes were way too complex and he was far too detailed oriented, every single detail at every position on every play, and the players complained that it was too complex and confusing and slowed them down. Other articles rave about the guy being a defensive genius. We'll see how the interview goes. But if he is a generational defensive mind and it's better off as a DC than a head coach, he's got to be seriously considered.

 

[Pkrjones]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Hahaha...the Bears have had such great success with GB castoffs (Getsy, Patrick, Lewis, Sitton, Tonyan). Lewis wasn't bad for them, others, meh.