Defense and QBs win Championships

[PikeBadger]

Collins was a beast literally out the door - his rookie year was his best year tackle wise (86) second year was his second best (82). That rookie year he had 8 PDs and 1 INT. Many remember his 2008-2010 run as his prime because it was that 4th, 5th and 6th year that he really kicked up his INTs and in that span had 17 but even his second year the dude had his second best PD season with 14...honestly his stats are awesome from the go:

Year	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Yds	TD	Lng	PD	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Sk	Comb	Solo	Ast	TFL	QBHits
2005	FS	36	16	16	1	0	0	0	8	2	0	0	0	0	86	66	20	3
2006	FS	36	16	16	3	68	1	55	14	2	0	0	0	0	82	67	15	2	0
2007	FS	36	13	13	0	0	0	0	5					0	46	40	6	1	1
2008*	FS	36	16	16	7	295	3	62	15	1	0	0	0	0	72	60	12	1	1
2009*	FS	36	16	16	6	110	0	31	13	0	2	4	0	1	53	44	9	3	1
2010*	FS	36	16	16	4	34	0	24	12	0	2	26	1	0	70	59	11	1	2
2011		36	2	2	0	0	0	0	1	1				0	12	9	3	0	0
Career			95	95	21	507	4	62	68	6	4	30	1	1	421	345	76	11	5

I'm going to disagree with your beast out the door assessment of Collins. Imo, his first 3 years he showed brief glimpses of becoming a good/excellent safety. Woodson worked with him (showing him how to study tape) and in his 4th year he became a really good safety. He had very good physical tools, but wasn't the natural instinctive athlete that Woodson was. He had to be taught.
I've always thought that the Packers should have offered Woodson a very well paid part time consultant contract to teach a couple of our DB's every year after he retired. Imo, it would've been money well spent.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm going to disagree with your beast out the door assessment of Collins. Imo, his first 3 years he showed brief glimpses of becoming a good/excellent safety. Woodson worked with him (showing him how to study tape) and in his 4th year he became a really good safety. He had very good physical tools, but wasn't the natural instinctive athlete that Woodson was. He had to be taught.
I've always thought that the Packers should have offered Woodson a very well paid part time consultant contract to teach a couple of our DB's every year after he retired. Imo, it would've been money well spent.

No problem at all. Anytime a rookie comes in and is a full time starter, that delivers production level of a starter IMO is a beast and is not an expectation many rookies at all reach right away. He definitely hit his stride in year 4 in most facets across the board as a player for sure - no argument there.

 

[kevans74]

Anyways this is Darnells 4th year....my point was that I *hope * he hits his stride this year.

 

[OldSchool101]

Hopefully pushing Savage to grow as a player. He was, uhm, not great last year.

Certainly Darnell is not playing to his draft placing, but he’s not that bad though either.

I don’t think we need to sign a #2 and #3 Safety. That’s a poor use of limited resources. What would that even cost and who would we demote?
We’ve got:

Tre Sterling
(ranked #7 in the FBS in coverage over 2019-2020 and #1 in the FBS on Stops (66);

Innes Gaines (2nd year w/GB)

Shawn Davis (2019 5th RD-Colts)

Tariq Carpenter (2022-7th Rd)

Vernon Scott (2020-7th Rd)

All fighting for a spot behind Amos and Savage. IF we signed 2 more? That’s 7 Safeties vying for backup Safety spots.
I don’t see them going that route, it’s too much going on there. If they sign 2 more Safeties, I’d agree we definitely have zero confidence in who’s currently competent!

 

[tynimiller]

Certainly Darnell is not playing to his draft placing, but he’s not that bad though either.

I don’t think we need to sign a #2 and #3 Safety. That’s a poor use of limited resources. What would that even cost and who would we demote?
We’ve got Tre Sterling (ranked #7 in the FBS in coverage over 2019-2020 and #1 in the FBS on Stops (66);

Innes Gaines (2nd year w/GB)

Shawn Davis (2019 5th RD-Colts)

Tariq Carpenter (2022-7th Rd)

All fighting for a spot behind Amos and Savage. IF we signed 2 more? then they all go? I don’t see that happening at all.

Tre Sterling also whom honestly I see as more a pure safety and IMO a higher ceiling than Tariq or Davis...

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Certainly Darnell is not playing to his draft placing, but he’s not that bad though either.

I don’t think we need to sign a #2 and #3 Safety. That’s a poor use of limited resources. What would that even cost and who would we demote?
We’ve got Tre Sterling (ranked #7 in the FBS in coverage over 2019-2020 and #1 in the FBS on Stops (66);

Innes Gaines (2nd year w/GB)

Shawn Davis (2019 5th RD-Colts)

Tariq Carpenter (2022-7th Rd)

All fighting for a spot behind Amos and Savage. IF we signed 2 more then you maybe stash an above option on PS and cut 3 loose?
I just don’t see that happening at all.

Also, the need for an additional safety was lessened by the drafting of Walker. He will cover in the nickel where they were using a safety last year. That was the whole point of drafting Walker. So they could play a true nickel with another ILB instead of having to use a safety which gives them the flexibility of both added run support plus Walker's ability to cover TE's and such.

 

[PikeBadger]

No problem at all. Anytime a rookie comes in and is a full time starter, that delivers production level of a starter IMO is a beast and is not an expectation many rookies at all reach right away. He definitely hit his stride in year 4 in most facets across the board as a player for sure - no argument there.

Oh...... What this forum needs is a glossary. I hereby nominate Sschind for that project.

 

[PikeBadger]

Tre Sterling also whom honestly I see as more a pure safety and IMO a higher ceiling than Tariq or Davis...

Sterling? He's a UDFA. How could he possibly be talented enough to play safety?!?!

Besides... UDFA's.? We don't discuss UDFA's here. We've never talked about UDFA's. We aren't going to talk about UDFA's! *reaching for my water bottle*

 

[sschind]

Oh...... What this forum needs is a glossary. I hereby nominate Sschind for that project.

I'd be happy to do it.

Glossary, that's one of those weird birds from New Guinea that can't fly and can rip your guts out with its feet right. I'll start checking with my exotic pet wholesalers right now.

Um, What do I do with it when I get it and why do we need one.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Certainly Darnell is not playing to his draft placing, but he’s not that bad though either.

I don’t think we need to sign a #2 and #3 Safety. That’s a poor use of limited resources. What would that even cost and who would we demote?
We’ve got:

Tre Sterling
(ranked #7 in the FBS in coverage over 2019-2020 and #1 in the FBS on Stops (66);

Innes Gaines (2nd year w/GB)

Shawn Davis (2019 5th RD-Colts)

Tariq Carpenter (2022-7th Rd)

Vernon Scott (2020-7th Rd)

All fighting for a spot behind Amos and Savage. IF we signed 2 more? That’s 7 Safeties vying for backup Safety spots.
I don’t see them going that route, it’s too much going on there. If they sign 2 more Safeties, I’d agree we definitely have zero confidence in who’s currently competent!

I agree the Packers don't need to look for a starter at safety but in my opinion it would be smart to add another backup capable of stepping right in if Amos or Savage have to miss time.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

I’m trying to follow you..

In that scenario, What are we doing with Darnell and Adrian?

Amos is still playing well. Darnell regressed from about Week 10 on last season. Played absolutely horrible at the end of the season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Amos is still playing well. Darnell regressed from about Week 10 on last season. Played absolutely horrible at the end of the season.

It's true Savage struggled last season but I'm optimistic he will be a decent starter moving forward.

 

[OldSchool101]

Tre Sterling also whom honestly I see as more a pure safety and IMO a higher ceiling than Tariq or Davis...

Yeah. If he can make a full recovery from his prior wrist injury, he could be like getting a bonus Day 3 draft pick. We really don’t have anything to lose in giving him a chance at competing. He’s got as good a chance as any (backup Safety) at stealing a Roster spot.

 

[kevans74]

I think we are/were a little spoiled concerning the 3rd safety/"star" position because we had Hyde play that for us...so maybe unconscious perception is to have a guy like him. But our 3rd safety the past few years haven't been that bad, Scott, Black, etc..

Could they start for other teams? Probably not, but for number 3 safeties they aren't bad

 

[OldSchool101]

I think we are/were a little spoiled concerning the 3rd safety/"star" position because we had Hyde play that for us...so maybe unconscious perception is to have a guy like him. But our 3rd safety the past few years haven't been that bad, Scott, Black, etc..

Could they start for other teams? Probably not, but for number 3 safeties they aren't bad

I’m not going to use “bad” terminology. Partly because just to make it onto an NFL roster you’re darn good. But I have Black as “below average” for a #3 Safety. He was also a liability on ST.

Below average to the point I think that we can get better performance than Henry Black with a battle between our current Safety group (presumed backups)

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think we are/were a little spoiled concerning the 3rd safety/"star" position because we had Hyde play that for us...so maybe unconscious perception is to have a guy like him. But our 3rd safety the past few years haven't been that bad, Scott, Black, etc..

Could they start for other teams? Probably not, but for number 3 safeties they aren't bad

I agree it's unrealistic to expect having a safety as talented as Hyde as a backup but it should be expected to have more talent behind the starters than Black and Scott.

 

[gopkrs]

I’m not going to use “bad” terminology. Partly because just to make it onto an NFL roster you’re darn good. But I have Black as “below average” for a #3 Safety. He was also a liability on ST.

Below average to the point I think that we can get better performance than Henry Black with a battle between our current Safety group (presumed backups)

Yeah, I was real disappointed with Black. He just could not cover well and was inconsistent with his tackling. Better to start over there.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah, I was real disappointed with Black. He just could not cover well and was inconsistent with his tackling. Better to start over there.

Also I’m not sure if you recall. He was a primary cause of the blocked punt for -7 in the Divisional.
He left his assignment on the table and went to recess early.