Clinton-Dix at Cover Corner

[Deleted member 6794]

I get what your saying but from a measurables standpoint Tramon was best suited for the slot also untill he got his chance. I might be higher on Hayward then most but im all in on him having a huge year for us

It's possible both Randall and Rollins as well as Hayward and Goodson turn into solid outside corners as a lot of CBs whose measureables were best suited to play inside have done so at the pro level (like Tramon as you noted).

On the other hand there's a chance none of them will work out on the outside as well. Thompson is taking a gamble at the position IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

An encouraging article about Quinten Rollins:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...en-rollins-fresh-piece-clay-packers/27373549/

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I'm new to the boards, but I've got to say that both Randall and Rollins are interesting prospects and I'm looking forward to what they can bring to the defense. I hope they surprise a lot of the fans by really stepping up and contributing.

Rollins sounds like he will bring enthusiam to the defense and he's not afraid to tackle. If there is one concern I have, no actually 2...Can he run with the receivers and can he tackle? I'm really looking forward to TC to see what he can do.

 

[SoonerPack]

An encouraging article about Quinten Rollins:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...en-rollins-fresh-piece-clay-packers/27373549/

That was a nice article. I have to think this is one of the most intriguing picks Ted has ever made. It is going to be fun watching this kid develop and hopefully turn into a playmaker deluxe. Thanks for sharing WIMM.

 

[wist43]

It's possible both Randall and Rollins as well as Hayward and Goodson turn into solid outside corners as a lot of CBs whose measureables were best suited to play inside have done so at the pro level (like Tramon as you noted).

On the other hand there's a chance none of them will work out on the outside as well. Thompson is taking a gamble at the position IMO.

That's my point... we are close to a championship; CB is an uber-critical position; combined with the fact that he didn't do much to fill the other major hole, ILB...

The point is - you run the real risk of derailing what could otherwise be a championship season. Before the first injury, we're already looking at all the candidates, and they are all lacking obvious outside skills - everyone of them is a projection out there; and in the case of Randall, CB is a projection.

If you are this close to a championship - there's no rule that says you can't get creative and plug immediate holes in one way or another to cheat the perpetual youth movement for a year or two that stand a very good chance of bringing home hardware.

 

[TJV]

Ryan Wood has an interesting article about Hayward titled, "Hayward already proven as perimeter cornerback" He relates a story about Hayward matching up against AJ Green in college. Georgia had the ball at Vandy's 6-yard line (which obviously helps a CB) but it was still interesting. My biggest concern with Hayward is the injury, in spite of his assurances it'll be healed by TC.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ey-hayward-already-proven-perimeter/29033869/

 

[HardRightEdge]

Ryan Wood has an interesting article about Hayward titled, "Hayward already proven as perimeter cornerback" He relates a story about Hayward matching up against AJ Green in college. Georgia had the ball at Vandy's 6-yard line (which obviously helps a CB) but it was still interesting. My biggest concern with Hayward is the injury, in spite of his assurances it'll be healed by TC.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ey-hayward-already-proven-perimeter/29033869/

I have confidence Hayward can handle the short field and zone coverages. It's playing man on the island that is the question mark.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ryan Wood has an interesting article about Hayward titled, "Hayward already proven as perimeter cornerback" He relates a story about Hayward matching up against AJ Green in college. Georgia had the ball at Vandy's 6-yard line (which obviously helps a CB) but it was still interesting. My biggest concern with Hayward is the injury, in spite of his assurances it'll be healed by TC.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ey-hayward-already-proven-perimeter/29033869/

The stats back up HRE's concern about Hayward being able to play man coverage on an island. While he has had success playing outside during his time with the Packers, getting four interceptions on only 18 targets, allowing a completion rate of only 38.9%, he allowed an average of 29.4 yards on the seven completions.

 

[adambr2]

I'm fairly confident that based on sheer numbers of potentially talented CB's, someone among Hayward, Hyde, Rollins, Randle, and Goodson will work out on the outside at at least a serviceable level. That's assuming everyone stays healthy.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm fairly confident that based on sheer numbers of potentially talented CB's, someone among Hayward, Hyde, Rollins, Randle, and Goodson will work out on the outside at at least a serviceable level. That's assuming everyone stays healthy.

It seems like undrafted free agent Ladarius Gunter (who as Sam Shields played at Miami) has impressed coaches during the offseason as well. According to Joe Whitt Hayward currently is way above everyone else though and that all of the other corners have a lot to learn.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-from-battle-ready-b99524434z1-309413961.html

 

[TJV]

I was just relating the headline, I don’t think Hayward has proven he’s a legit perimeter CB. But I don’t think the stats captainWIMM quoted are definitive either. Hayward may have been right in saying it’ll be a transition “mentally-wise”, but I don’t think mastering the position mentally will be his biggest challenge. Even so, here’s Joe Whitt’s quote from that article: "I have no issue with Casey playing outside, I've never had an issue with Casey playing outside. I just had Tramon and Sam outside, so he played inside. But he's played outside before. I think this is a conversation that we really shouldn't be talking about, to be honest with you. Because I'm not worried about it. I have more to worry about than Casey Hayward outside. I have a lot more to worry about than that." Now I don’t know Whitt well enough to know if that’s his honest assessment of Hayward, if he said it out of necessity, or if he’s trying to instill confidence in him. But what he said about the others in the article captainWIMM linked looks pretty honest. Hayward will get his chance and he should. While he doesn’t have the top-end speed we’d like, he has instincts and apparently knows how to study opponents.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I think there's a case for trying Dix on the perimeter in camp and/or preseason.

Let's start with Rollins, a guy with upside, but more a strong safety / nickel type who needs a fair amount of perimeter technique work to steal the perimeter job. His flip-run-track-the-ball skills are not ready for prime time.

Randall has free safety stamped all over him in terms of recognition, angles and ball tracking, while being a suspect tackler and inexperienced at the perimeter.

While Dix is also inexperienced at cover corner, he's a much more physical player than Randall and thereby a better complement to Shields. He played a fair amount of nickel corner at Alabama, and he's got a year of experience in the system. At the same time, he led the team in missed tackles which suggests he might not be optimal at the free safety position for tackling-in-space ability.

While Randall has been characterized as an "ankle biter", that's pretty much the technique you need getting at receivers or backs down field in space, and would be a center field complement to Burnett who came on last season exercising his natural strong safety instincts in not having to worry about what M.D. Jennings was doing (or not doing as the case would be).

Hayward presents several issues at cover corner. He'll be a free agent after 2015. His strength to date has been as a zone nickel ball hawk. When it came time to cover Gronkowski in man, Hyde got the job. I'd think there are teams that run a lot of two-high safety zone who will be in need of a nickel back who would prize Hayward. Since nickel backs are not as highly paid as cover corners, I'd not expect Hayward to snag a House-like contract to play that role, but he should command decent coin.

So, the issue with Hayward is how much do the Packers want to risk with him in terms of growing pains, if not failure in man coverage on the perimeter, when he may be gone next season.

If the Packers try this, it works, and the presumptively redundant free safety in Randall is then no longer redundant, I'd bump up my grade for the draft from C+ to something higher.

I could see it. The Packers, especially on defense, like their players to be flexible and play more than one position. Micah Hyde is a hybrid corner/safety, Sean Richardson is a hybrid safety/linebacker, Matthews plays inside and outside, Neal and Peppers are defensive linemen playing linebacker, etc. I can see Clinton-Dix playing some corner as well as Randall playing some safety. If you have players who can manage that transition successfully, it makes life a little more complicated for those game-planning against your defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I can see Clinton-Dix playing some corner as well as Randall playing some safety.

OTAs and minicamp practices made it pretty clear the Packers aren´t thinking about moving Clinton-Dix to outside corner.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

OTAs and minicamp practices made it pretty clear the Packers aren´t thinking about moving Clinton-Dix to outside corner.

For now, at least. Mycah Hyde was strictly a corner at first. Things change sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For now, at least. Mycah Hyde was strictly a corner at first. Things change sometimes.

True, there´s a differnce between moving a slot corner to safety than a free safety to outside corner though. In addition if you read the entire thread about it the consensus is that there´s no reason to move Clinton-Dix outside after he stabilized a position in dire need of an upgrade in 2014 and should only get better as a FS.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

True, there´s a differnce between moving a slot corner to safety than a free safety to outside corner though. In addition if you read the entire thread about it the consensus is that there´s no reason to move Clinton-Dix outside after he stabilized a position in dire need of an upgrade in 2014 and should only get better as a FS.

You may be right. We'll just have to wait and see. The Packers have been known to "think outside of the box" with their defense, so I wouldn't dismiss it as something that will never happen.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You may be right. We'll just have to wait and see. The Packers have been known to "think outside of the box" with their defense, so I wouldn't dismiss it as something that will never happen.

There´s no reason the Packers should even think about it. There´s no way of knowing if Clinton-Dix would be a fit at outside corner nor if Damarious Randall (who has played corner all offseason long) would turn into a decent free safety. By moving HHCD the defense would have two huge question marks in the secondary compared to only outside corner opposite of Sam Shields. There are several candidates to win that job in Casey Hayward, Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins and maybe even Ladarius Gunter or Demetri Goodson, Clinton-Dix shouldn´t be part of that group though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think we are going to see some early growing pains on defense, especially at corner and ILB this season, with potentially some blown or bad coverages. However, we have the kind of offense that hopefully will make up for a defensive mistake hear and there as rookies and first time starters learn their positions on defense. Hopefully by mid to late season, with enough game time experience, we will begin to see the potential (and depth) of all the new players on defense and have some solid momentum going into the post season.

 

[TJV]

IMO there would have to be a couple of injuries to CBs before the Packers would consider switching HHCD to the outside. As has been mentioned, the safety position is finally settled, let HHCD and Burnett continue to work together.

I agree we will see some growing pains, more at CB than ILB if Matthews and Barrington man it as they did toward the end of last season. We have seen teams get hot towards the end of the season going into the playoffs and I have wondered if there's a way a HC can help make that happen. Other than staying healthy I'm not so sure. But perhaps playing youngsters who should grow into their positions is another way to improve later in the season?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think we are going to see some early growing pains on defense, especially at corner and ILB this season, with potentially some blown or bad coverages. However, we have the kind of offense that hopefully will make up for a defensive mistake hear and there as rookies and first time starters learn their positions on defense. Hopefully by mid to late season, with enough game time experience, we will begin to see the potential (and depth) of all the new players on defense and have some solid momentum going into the post season.

I don't think the defense will feature any first time starters with Hayward and Barrington probably being the most inexperienced ones. Hayward and whoever replaces Matthews inside once he moves to OLB will have a vital role in deciding where this defense is headed. If the unit is able to mostly stay healthy I don't expect rookies to get a ton of snaps.

 

[HardRightEdge]

True, there´s a difference between moving a slot corner to safety than a free safety to outside corner though.

The original post was thrown against the wall in reaction to what I regard as a mistake with the first round pick, a player we should note happens to be a safety moved to outside corner....maybe.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The original post was thrown against the wall in reaction to what I regard as a mistake with the first round pick, a player we should note happens to be a safety moved to outside corner....maybe.

While it's true Randall mostly played free safety at Arizona State it seems the Packers drafted him with the intention to move him to outside corner all along.

 

[HardRightEdge]

While it's true Randall mostly played free safety at Arizona State it seems the Packers drafted him with the intention to move him to outside corner all along.

The intention was clear. The result is not.

 

[Voltron]

Saw this youtube...

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