Clay Mathews is done.

[Deleted member 6794]

Captain, the article is from www.nfltraderumors.com.

I can't find it accessing the page from my phone either but let me clarify that I don't expect Matthews to be back with the Packers next season.

 

[PackerDNA]

They offer a lot of links to different articles about the Packers, not sure which one you're talking about.

It got dropped to page two. They update a lot.

 

[Raptorman]

Exactly what i meant. Thought it was obvious. Probably could have worded it better. No doubt those 10 yards are helpful but even after posting this I had to explain to a Minnesota fan that the penalty "didn't give the Packers a field goal" as they said. It helped for sure but in terms of overall impact on the game it wasn't even close.

Neither Clay nor Kendricks got fined which is interesting since they were supposed to be textbook roughing the passer...

Sendejo did get fined for his hit on Adams even though Zimmer claims a ref told him Sendejo did everything right. That was textbook helmet to helmet.

To Quote you. "It was first down and the Vikings had another penalty. It was a 10 yard penalty" To me that says the other penalty was 10 yards, but not a 10 yard difference. Of course you are assuming that it didn't make a difference. Fact is we have no idea what the next play call would have been on 1st and 5 from the Packers 43, nor do we know what the outcome of the following plays would be or how they would turn out. So, no, you can't say it didn't have a lesser impact on the game. Because everything that happened after would be different.

 

[gatorpack]

Clay might be out of the league soon. What good is a pass rusher that can't touch the qb?

 

[Title Town USA]

Clay Matthews is not done.

Also, OP, the least you can do is spell his name correctly. Show some respect.

 

[easyk83]

That sack was off a beautiful pass rush, its not his fault that the league is becoming a mockery. His hit on Cousins last week to force the int was as well. Even that late hit on Trubiesky came off a good outside pass rush that forced an early throw. He still is getting things done in the pass rush.

 

[CaptainCanuck]

That sack was off a beautiful pass rush, its not his fault that the league is becoming a mockery. His hit on Cousins last week to force the int was as well. Even that late hit on Trubiesky came off a good outside pass rush that forced an early throw. He still is getting things done in the pass rush.

NFL is turning into a No Fun League

They really need to make changes fast

 

[TEXPAC]

I think GB should trade for JJ Watt. Texans can’t seem to use him and he would be great at this point in time in our lineup.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think GB should trade for JJ Watt. Texans can’t seem to use him and he would be great at this point in time in our lineup.

Watt had three sacks and five tackles for loss on Sunday vs. the Giants. While the Texans have a hard time winning the games they definitely know how to use him. I highly doubt they're interested in trading him.

 

[Jim Lite]

Jim Lite said: ↑
Once upon a time, boxing was the only sport in which the object was to injure the opponent.

When Bart Starr was our QB, when in the act of passing (ball in hand. arm back), a hit would be penalized. Nowadays, it's “kill the QB, and win.” Football needs to return to civility.

What in the actual world are you talking about, Jim?

Sadly, a condition that is suffered by many Packer fans......

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Yeah, maybe I incorrectly understand the rule:

RULE SUMMARY VIEW OFFICIAL RULE
PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

 

[Jim Lite]

Jim Lite said: ↑
Once upon a time, boxing was the only sport in which the object was to injure the opponent.

When Bart Starr was our QB, when in the act of passing (ball in hand. arm back), a hit would be penalized. Nowadays, it's “kill the QB, and win.” Football needs to return to civility.
Yeah, maybe I incorrectly understand the rule:

RULE SUMMARY VIEW OFFICIAL RULE
PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

Further reading:

ARTICLE 9. ROUGHING THE PASSER
Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:

1. Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.
2. A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.
3. In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture—for example, (1) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him; or (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any partof the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.
4. A defensive player is prohibited from clubbing the arm of a passer during a pass or just after a pass has been thrown; however, a defensive player may grasp, pull, or otherwise make normal contact with a passer’s arm in attempting to tackle him.
5. A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.
   
   Notes
   1. A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player.
   2. It is not a foul if the defender swipes or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him, provided he does not make forcible contact with the helmet, shoulder, chest, or forearm.
6. A passer who is standing still or fading backward after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by an opponent through the end of the down or until the passer becomes a blocker, or a runner, or, in the event of a change of possession during the down, until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, at any time after the change of possession, it is a foul if:
   1. an opponent forcibly hits the quarterback’s head or neck area with his helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder
   2. if an opponent lowers his head and makes forcible contact with any part of his helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This provision does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional block.
7. When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.
8. The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy.
   
   Note: A player who initiates contact against a passer is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a passer, irrespective of any acts by the passer, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down; disqualification if flagrant.

Notes

1. When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.
2. See 8-6-1-c–d for personal fouls prior to completion or interception.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2018-nfl-rulebook/#article-7.-players-in-a-defenseless-posture

 

[Poppa San]

Like I told my youth teams when I coached, doesn't matter what happened or what the rule is, the call will be what the ref sees and how he interprets the rules at that moment.

 

[Jim Lite]

While I am too young to know the "Glory Years" first hand, I have seen enough pictures and video, are you sure you are remembering this time correctly?

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Yeah, Bart took a lot of hits. But the images don't show his arm back, intending to pass.

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I guess the NFL refs enforced the rules more strictly, back then.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, Bart took a lot of hits. But the images don't show his arm back, intending to pass.


I guess the NFL refs enforced the rules more strictly, back then.

What rules? That was my point. Like I said, I am not old enough to have personal knowledge, but from clips I see and stuff I read, QB's were fair game to hit just as hard as anyone on the field.

 

[Jim Lite]

What rules? That was my point. Like I said, I am not old enough to have personal knowledge, but from clips I see and stuff I read, QB's were fair game to hit just as hard as anyone on the field.

PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

you are quoting todays rules. If you look at the history of the rules, players safety really didn't come into "vogue" until 1979 and beyond.

http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm

 

[Jim Lite]

you are quoting todays rules. If you look at the history of the rules, players safety really didn't come into "vogue" until 1979 and beyond.

http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm

Were there NO rules regarding players' safety before 1979?

Exactly how were the defenseless passer rules any different, back when Bart Starr was the Packers QB?

 

[Poppa San]

Were there NO rules regarding players' safety before 1979?

Exactly how were the defenseless passer rules any different, back when Bart Starr was the Packers QB?

There weren't any defenseless player type rules in those days. Just late hits on the QB. No protections for certain hits except face-mask. Judgement there whether it was 5 or 15 yards. Close fist or turn head was 15 as opposed to what is now a hands to the face type penalty.

 

[PikeBadger]

From my memory of games in the 60’s and early 70’s it was essentially a free for all. QB’s took a terrible pounding from mostly defensive linemen. Blitzing was far more infrequent than it is now if I remember correctly. Seldom saw flags for roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. Used to see a lot more vicious after whistle extra curricular activity. Butkus and Jimmy Taylor used to get after it pretty good.

 

[Jim Lite]

From my memory of games in the 60’s and early 70’s it was essentially a free for all. QB’s took a terrible pounding from mostly defensive linemen. Blitzing was far more infrequent than it is now if I remember correctly. Seldom saw flags for roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. Used to see a lot more vicious after whistle extra curricular activity. Butkus and Jimmy Taylor used to get after it pretty good.

Your profile says you're age 60. That would make you a pre-schooler during the early sixties period I refer to.

I distinctly remember there being an issue regarding Bart Starr, ball in hand, arm back; but forget the specifics.

Can't find archive of rules back then, but it definitely was not a free-for-all, regarding QB safety.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Your profile says you're age 60. That would make you a pre-schooler during the early sixties period I refer to.

I distinctly remember there being an issue regarding Bart Starr, ball in hand, arm back; but forget the specifics.

Can't find archive of rules back then, but it definitely was not a free-for-all, regarding QB safety.

Sounds like Starr's worse "beating" came while at Alabama in the way of a Hazing event.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...bart-starr-hazing-incident-back-injury-022916

I can't profess to know a lot about the rules of the NFL during that time, but a few things lead me to believe there weren't a lot that protected the QB.

1. Images and video from that time period show QB's getting mauled, battered and bloodied.
2. If you follow the timeline of the NFL changes in rules that I posted prior, you will see many rules invoked to protect the QB post 70's.

Possibly you are remembering one incident that was extremely flagrant, but sure doesn't appear that the NFL protected QB's back then like they do today.

 

[rmontro]

I can't find it accessing the page from my phone either but let me clarify that I don't expect Matthews to be back with the Packers next season.

Watch him play like a monster for whatever team signs him.

 

[PikeBadger]

Your profile says you're age 60. That would make you a pre-schooler during the early sixties period I refer to.

I distinctly remember there being an issue regarding Bart Starr, ball in hand, arm back; but forget the specifics.

Can't find archive of rules back then, but it definitely was not a free-for-all, regarding QB safety.

I don’t remember games prior to 1964 or 65. I do remember seeing Starr, Unitas, Brodie,Plum get absolutely pummelled and bludgeoned. No flag. No fine. No muss. No fuss. It was just an accepted part of the game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Watch him play like a monster for whatever team signs him.

I highly doubt it.

 

[Title Town USA]

Why has the title of this thread not been changed? Clearly, Matthews is not done. He has played like a beast this season. Open your eyes.