Can we declare 2013 a Failed Draft Class?

[Mondio]

It is weak crap; the same weak crap we've been getting from this guy for 13 years now, followed by the same tired defenses of it.
Name and dollars? There's the other half of it. The same straw man. If we-I- wanted to waste the next several hours or days researching a list , we'd find that you actually can have success at the FA game- if you wisely participate in it (emphasize on 'participate'). But you cherry pick a few examples and think that's the end of it.
The thing that cracks me up, Mondio, is that we actually agree on that; you and a few others here just rabidly jump to the defense of the beloved TT. I wonder if you're actually Packer fans , or TT fans first and above all.

I" not cherry picking, just putting down what first pops in my head. by most accounts there were maybe 2 cover guys that could have helped us. Both on teams I don't really watch so what do I know. The rest are known quantities and none really do anything special for me. Some could have been signed for small contracts and could be just fine.

i just realized i've had this conversation 20 times already today. Back to topic.

No, a draft that yields a Franchise left tackle and 4 other guys worthy of week 1 Free agent contracts 5 years later can not be considered a failure, regardless of the team they play for. any draft with a franchise left tackle and 4 other players, even if they're just players is a success. If they can't be retained at a price that makes sense, you're not going to make yourself better overpaying to keep them. Especially when I think our defense is going to be better with Burnett being brought down, Hyde gone, and brice covering much more ground at safety with HaHa. that move alone, which i am expecting to see quite a bit makes me optimistic. toss in some health and some new guys we're sure to see, i think it will at least be interesting.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

You have to look at player performance to call it a bust, not just 'who is still here'.

Lacy: On the fence here. I think he has the ability and talent, I just wish he'd stayed.

Bakhtiari: Solid pick (Think he was a 4th or 5th) probably a life long Packer LT a la Forrest Gregg/Chad Clifton

Datone Jones: On the fence again, but leaning toward bust. He was with the team 4 years, and had 1-1.5 good years. Prior to week 6 or so of 2015, he was invisible.

Tretter: BUST! Once we drafted Linsley I could tell you he wasn't gonna start or really be around on a constant basis. Wasted pick, even as late as he was drafted.

Jonathan Franklin: Bust, BUT due to bad luck and injury. Liked his play, just unfortunate circumstances.

Micah Hyde: Solid pick, solid player, MVP of the secondary last year. Played all CB positions, and I think a bit of safety. Value guy, wish Ted had kept him.

Barrington: I missed on this guy. I thought he was the ILB with Ryan of the future here. But yeah another bust.

The rest of the list: BUST! Nothing special or spectacular.

I can't say this draft was a full bust, but it is in the D range if we're grading it.

 

[PackerDNA]

I" not cherry picking, just putting down what first pops in my head. by most accounts there were maybe 2 cover guys that could have helped us. Both on teams I don't really watch so what do I know. The rest are known quantities and none really do anything special for me. Some could have been signed for small contracts and could be just fine.

i just realized i've had this conversation 20 times already today. Back to topic.

No, a draft that yields a Franchise left tackle and 4 other guys worthy of week 1 Free agent contracts 5 years later can not be considered a failure, regardless of the team they play for. any draft with a franchise left tackle and 4 other players, even if they're just players is a success. If they can't be retained at a price that makes sense, you're not going to make yourself better overpaying to keep them. Especially when I think our defense is going to be better with Burnett being brought down, Hyde gone, and brice covering much more ground at safety with HaHa. that move alone, which i am expecting to see quite a bit makes me optimistic. toss in some health and some new guys we're sure to see, i think it will at least be interesting.

(bolded part), LOL, I hear ya buddy, and I feel your pain.
The OP's draft specifically, in and of itself; depends on how you look at it. Getting a long term franchise LT can call it good right there. But the other side is only 1 out of 11 four years later? Not good.
And as Pokerbrat2000 pointed out, when you take his recent drafts- specifically the second half of his tenure- not too special, and bad when you consider his strict draft and develop work.

 

[PackerDNA]

I" not cherry picking, just putting down what first pops in my head. by most accounts there were maybe 2 cover guys that could have helped us. Both on teams I don't really watch so what do I know. The rest are known quantities and none really do anything special for me. Some could have been signed for small contracts and could be just fine.

i just realized i've had this conversation 20 times already today. Back to topic.

No, a draft that yields a Franchise left tackle and 4 other guys worthy of week 1 Free agent contracts 5 years later can not be considered a failure, regardless of the team they play for. any draft with a franchise left tackle and 4 other players, even if they're just players is a success. If they can't be retained at a price that makes sense, you're not going to make yourself better overpaying to keep them. Especially when I think our defense is going to be better with Burnett being brought down, Hyde gone, and brice covering much more ground at safety with HaHa. that move alone, which i am expecting to see quite a bit makes me optimistic. toss in some health and some new guys we're sure to see, i think it will at least be interesting.

I think it's all akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. I don't think there will be much difference or improvement, if any. And I can say that because base on his history to date, I don't believe Mannequin Man intends to do much more if anything then the draft and UDFA's the next say. Then it's back to hibernation.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Again, one more time. With my original post, I was not looking to grade each individual player drafted in 2013 and then adding and subtracting up all the parts to determine if the draft (in hindsight) was a success, failure or anything in between. I was simply asking the question; If you are Ted Thompson and you predominantly build your team through draft and development, is retaining 1 guy, from a group of 11, after 4 years considered a success or a failure?

 

[Mondio]

so limit the variables to get the answer you're looking for? what's the point of the thread when you already have the answer you're looking for? If there was no cap, maybe you'd have a point. BUT there are dollars attached to every performance and limited supply and teams with more space and different needs and a willingness to overpay. and until no player is lost to injury removing 3 of those 11 as well, you don't have a point that means much other than you want to have others agree with your opinion.

SO one more time out of a possible 11 players, 3 removed from injury and having over 50% still in the league 5 years later, almost all with much better than league minimum contracts, I'd say, yes, the draft was a success.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Classic!

The anti TT ilk is now complaining that we dont sign our own FAs after he brings in 3 FAs in the first few days of free agency.

LOL, not sure if that "anti TT ilk" was directed at me, but if it was, I am not anti or pro TT. I think you have to look at everything he does in bits and pieces and see that he does some things really well and lacks in other areas. None of which add up or subtract down to any kind of over positive or over negative feeling towards the overall job TT has done in GB. I am officially "TT Neutral".

 

[PackerDNA]

LOL, not sure if that "anti TT ilk" was directed at me, but if it was, I am not anti or pro TT. I think you have to look at everything he does in bits and pieces and see that he does some things really well and lacks in other areas. None of which add up or subtract down to any kind of over positive or over negative feeling towards the overall job TT has done in GB. I am officially "TT Neutral".

And Hail Hail the Gang's all here! With AmishMafia checking in to decry all the "anti TT ilk " , my day is complete.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

so limit the variables to get the answer you're looking for? what's the point of the thread when you already have the answer you're looking for? If there was no cap, maybe you'd have a point. BUT there are dollars attached to every performance and limited supply and teams with more space and different needs and a willingness to overpay. and until no player is lost to injury removing 3 of those 11 as well, you don't have a point that means much other than you want to have others agree with your opinion.

SO one more time out of a possible 11 players, 3 removed from injury and having over 50% still in the league 5 years later, almost all with much better than league minimum contracts, I'd say, yes, the draft was a success.

3 removed by injury? I count Franklin.

You were the one that stated that none of the ones we lost in FA would have been worth keeping for the money they were paid and I happen to agree with that statement, which is why I thanked you. How do you build a team through D & D when only 1 out of 11 guys in a draft class are worth keeping around past 4 years? The Packers still have cap space and had Lacy, Tretter, Jones or Hyde been a valuable player to the team, none of them would have broken the bank.

 

[Mondio]

you don't think Barringtons tore up knee or Boyds destroyed ankle had anything to do with them no longer being with the team?

and there's a difference between having worth as a football player and the cost against the cap. 4 of those guys were obviously worth keeping as football players as other GM's just overpaid for to get that football talent on their team.

 

[PackerDNA]

you don't think Barringtons tore up knee or Boyds destroyed ankle had anything to do with them no longer being with the team?

Would you consider........what does it matter since both were JAGS.

 

[Mondio]

Would you consider........what does it matter since both were JAGS.

because most draft classes aren't even JAGS. Not every draft pick is a superstar, nor do they need to be. There is no team so loaded with talent I can't find better players on almost every team that aren't on that roster. and if there were no cap, there would be less room for JAGS on the good teams because they'd stockpile the playmakers and pay them. But you can only invest so many dollars there and have to find JAGS to fill the rest. you can't sign that many FA's and survive and nobody is drafting 100% superstars across the board.

 

[Poppa San]

I can't say this draft was a full bust, but it is in the D range if we're grading it.

Show me an A or B draft by any team in the league between 2009 and 2014 so I know what your standards are. I think you should start at least before 2015 as first year wonders bias the results.

 

[swhitset]

Again, one more time. With my original post, I was not looking to grade each individual player drafted in 2013 and then adding and subtracting up all the parts to determine if the draft (in hindsight) was a success, failure or anything in between. I was simply asking the question; If you are Ted Thompson and you predominantly build your team through draft and development, is retaining 1 guy, from a group of 11, after 4 years considered a success or a failure?

I'm too lazy to do the work.... but I think to find the answer to this question.... we have to look at every draft for about the last 7-10 years and consider that the roster can only have 53 guys on it.... so.... I don't TH k looking at a single year really tells us much.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

I think you should at least acknowledge the source of this:
http://lombardiave.com/2017/03/14/green-bay-packers-draft-replace/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Taking a look at Pro Football Reference's weighted career approximate value the Packers have received the best value of all teams in the league out of the 2013 draft class over the past four years.

I agree with Pokerbrat that it's disappointing only Bakhtiari is left with the team entering next season though.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Taking a look at Pro Football Reference's weighted career approximate value the Packers have received the best value of all teams in the league out of the 2013 draft class over the past four years.

I agree with Pokerbrat that it's disappointing only Bakhtiari is left with the team entering next season though.

All things considered, they did a good job in that draft that year. That was a really bad class. Datone was a huge bust, though.

 

[PackerDNA]

because most draft classes aren't even JAGS. Not every draft pick is a superstar, nor do they need to be. There is no team so loaded with talent I can't find better players on almost every team that aren't on that roster. and if there were no cap, there would be less room for JAGS on the good teams because they'd stockpile the playmakers and pay them. But you can only invest so many dollars there and have to find JAGS to fill the rest. you can't sign that many FA's and survive and nobody is drafting 100% superstars across the board.

I'm aware of all of that; I was specifically talking about Barrington and Boyd.
It does highlight another weakness of Ted's. We'll call it same ol' same ol' disease. Even with guys like the above mentioned- the deep depth, 2nd half of the roster types, he prefers to do nothing. Year 4 of Don Barclay? Year 3 or 4 of Thomas , Guion, and other similar turds and JAGS- most overpaid- because they were on the roster before? You can't tell me that you can't do better. Not only better, but cheaper and younger with more upside. But in Green Bay, you get tenure.

 

[PackAttack12]

This is how most his drafts look. This guy just stinks at drafting talented players who impacts. He lucked out on Rodgers falling into his lap.

For all of the praise that he gets around the league and throughout the media, it would all be moot if Rodgers doesn't fall to the Packers in '05.

 

[PackAttack12]

I" not cherry picking, just putting down what first pops in my head. by most accounts there were maybe 2 cover guys that could have helped us. Both on teams I don't really watch so what do I know. The rest are known quantities and none really do anything special for me. Some could have been signed for small contracts and could be just fine.

i just realized i've had this conversation 20 times already today. Back to topic.

No, a draft that yields a Franchise left tackle and 4 other guys worthy of week 1 Free agent contracts 5 years later can not be considered a failure, regardless of the team they play for. any draft with a franchise left tackle and 4 other players, even if they're just players is a success. If they can't be retained at a price that makes sense, you're not going to make yourself better overpaying to keep them. Especially when I think our defense is going to be better with Burnett being brought down, Hyde gone, and brice covering much more ground at safety with HaHa. that move alone, which i am expecting to see quite a bit makes me optimistic. toss in some health and some new guys we're sure to see, i think it will at least be interesting.

So best case scenario, even with your dream scenario of Burnett being brought down, Hyde out of the picture, Brice covering more of the field that HaHa won't be forced to, a healthy squad, and formidable draft picks, you're looking at things as being just "interesting"?

Boy. That sure fills me with confidence about you and Teddy's vision. Know what it sounds like to me? Most of Thompson's tenure with this team.

 

[sschind]

Ted drafted some talented players in 2013 and some of those players are still contributing. The fact that only 1 is still contributing with the Packers tells me this wasn't a good draft from the packers perspective at this point. That doesn't mean it wasn't a good draft draft for the Packers up till now. Even though we didn't win any championships with those players several were key contributors to what success we did have.

I don't think Poker is saying Ted is a failure as a GM and I know he is not saying that Ted didn't draft talented players. He simply asked if the 2013 draft of 11 players, of which only 1 remains with the team was, as of right now, a failed draft from a Packers perspective and I would have a difficult time arguing it wasn't.

 

[Mondio]

It is disappointing. That's a word I can agree on. But it's understandable, and i certainly wouldn't call it a failure.

So best case scenario, even with your dream scenario of Burnett being brought down, Hyde out of the picture, Brice covering more of the field that HaHa won't be forced to, a healthy squad, and formidable draft picks, you're looking at things as being just "interesting"?

Boy. That sure fills me with confidence about you and Teddy's vision. Know what it sounds like to me? Most of Thompson's tenure with this team.

yeah interesting, and I don't give 2 ****ing ***** what it fills you up with LOL You guys are such dimwits. It doesn't matter for **** what you, I or the other person thinks. It's March. you know what happens in the NFL in March? the set up for a whole lot of buyers remorse by the time December rolls around. Other than that, nothing happens of note, or worth.

you know why nothing is more than interesting right now, because that's all it is, is a bunch of people tossing darts around and the odds are astronomically high that nothing any of us are talking about are going to come to fruition or even follow a similar path to what is being discussed. How many saw the DB's as a weakness last year at this time? How about even when September rolled around? How many saw the struggles Rodgers and the offense would have to start the year? How many foretold and predicted the 2nd half struggles of the offense the year before after starting 6-0 and the Jordan comparisons to start the year before? YOU? HA!

Things happen in an NFL season and none of us know much of anything. So yeah, it's just interesting right now because the rest of my life is filled with the important stuff. I think it's crazy that a signing like Mo Claiborne would have people singing a different tune.

 

[PackerDNA]

It is disappointing. That's a word I can agree on. But it's understandable, and i certainly wouldn't call it a failure.

yeah interesting, and I don't give 2 ******* ***** what it fills you up with LOL You guys are such dimwits. It doesn't matter for **** what you, I or the other person thinks. It's March. you know what happens in the NFL in March? the set up for a whole lot of buyers remorse by the time December rolls around. Other than that, nothing happens of note, or worth.

you know why nothing is more than interesting right now, because that's all it is, is a bunch of people tossing darts around and the odds are astronomically high that nothing any of us are talking about are going to come to fruition or even follow a similar path to what is being discussed. How many saw the DB's as a weakness last year at this time? How about even when September rolled around? How many saw the struggles Rodgers and the offense would have to start the year? How many foretold and predicted the 2nd half struggles of the offense the year before after starting 6-0 and the Jordan comparisons to start the year before? YOU? HA!

Things happen in an NFL season and none of us know much of anything. So yeah, it's just interesting right now because the rest of my life is filled with the important stuff. I think it's crazy that a signing like Mo Claiborne would have people singing a different tune.

Good for you, Mondio. Well said.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How many saw the DB's as a weakness last year at this time? How about even when September rolled around?

The more important question might be how many posters saw the Packers lacking talent at tight end, safety and inside linebacker in years past and were correct Thompson not addressing those weaknesses in a timely fashion came back to haunt the team.

 

[Mondio]

The more important question might be how many posters saw the Packers lacking talent at tight end, safety and inside linebacker in years past and were correct Thompson not addressing those weaknesses in a timely fashion came back to haunt the team.

oh yes, you're ILB's being the reasons we didn't get it done in 2014 despite Peppers, Burnett, Matthews, Dix, all failed on defense, a special teams player couldn't just stand there and block, and Rodgers couldn't score more points despite the defense giving him SIX extra posessions. We won a Superbowl with squat for a TE, and a highly invested in and in the prime of his career safety was had his career snuffed out in the blink of an eye. Should have had him replaced within the hour.