Bucks 2024-25 Season Thread

[Heyjoe4]

Congrats to Rivers. He's destroyed another solid player. Kyle Kuzma. Rivers and Giannis criticizing him for not being "selfish enough." Stupid! Kuzma was contributing with scoring, solid rebounding, assists, and playing some solid defense and because the Bucks were losing, those two idiots hint that it's Kuzma's fault? Are you serious?

For openers, Giannis thinks it's all about him. Lillard feels the same way about himself. Both think they're above reproach, and here's Rivers on the sideline being totally clueless as to how you build team chemistry. instead, between him and Horst, they're looking for ways to replace the support group around them, blaming them for the misfires that are happening repeatedly.

The "flavor of the month" with Rivers is two guys off the bench. Porter and Trent. It will last until the end of March, and they'll be held responsible for the team failures. It's a story that keeps repeating itself with new people cast into the roles of those who cause the problems. It's ****** in the Bucks culture at this point. It happened with DiVincenzo, Connaughton, Holiday, Bledsoe, and others. They get run through the mill and cast aside. Some end up being solid players after leaving the Bucks and the malignant culture.

I can hardly wait until there's new ownership, firing of Horst and Rivers, and Lillard and Giannis traded so they can start to rebuild the culture like a team has to be built to be competitive in the NBA.

"...firing of Horst and Rivers, and Lillard and Giannis traded so they can start to rebuild the culture like a team has to be built to be competitive in the NBA."

That's it in a nutshell. Giannis should bring some decent offers, but I don't expect much for Lillard. The sad part is that it didn't have to end this way.

 

[Voyageur]

"...firing of Horst and Rivers, and Lillard and Giannis traded so they can start to rebuild the culture like a team has to be built to be competitive in the NBA."

That's it in a nutshell. Giannis should bring some decent offers, but I don't expect much for Lillard. The sad part is that it didn't have to end this way.

Agreed. It didn't have to end up here. It shouldn't have. Horst decided he'd play God with the team and damaged them on the court and sideline because of it. The cancer spread from him, and now it's everywhere. Lots of players out there who are now just going through the motions and can hardly wait to leave Milwaukee. I don't blame them.

Sitting two rows back behind the bench in Houston, I saw how players were reacting in regard to Rivers, and his "coaching." He'd yell at players for mistakes but not offer one bit of constructive criticism. If you can't use it as a teaching moment you've got no business yelling at the player. You obviously don't have a better plan for handling that situation in the future.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agreed. It didn't have to end up here. It shouldn't have. Horst decided he'd play God with the team and damaged them on the court and sideline because of it. The cancer spread from him, and now it's everywhere. Lots of players out there who are now just going through the motions and can hardly wait to leave Milwaukee. I don't blame them.

Sitting two rows back behind the bench in Houston, I saw how players were reacting in regard to Rivers, and his "coaching." He'd yell at players for mistakes but not offer one bit of constructive criticism. If you can't use it as a teaching moment you've got no business yelling at the player. You obviously don't have a better plan for handling that situation in the future.

As I remember, the Sixers fired Rivers a few years ago and he became an analyst for one of the big sports broadcasters (ESPN, TNT, something). I took that to mean he couldn't find a HC job until the Bucks came along.

I like Doc Rivers and I have always been a fan of MU basketball. But that's not enough reason to hire him as a HC. He didn't do anything for the Sixers and he's not doing much for the Bucks.

 

[Voyageur]

Ouch! Kyle Kuzma finally stated it flat out. The Bucks combo of Giannis and Lillard don't allow anyone else to be part of the team except in an auxiliary role. It's obvious that Rivers is either too cowardly to tell the two of them, or too poor of a coach to see it. But Lillard finally admitted that Kuzma has to be part of the game in a major role, and that they are not exploring and utilizing his ability to play downhill to the hoop, and key in on rebounding. It's like I said. Doc has his standing around watching the game! That's stupid.

Anyhow, Lillard sees that they need to include Kuzma more in their offense. On the other hand, the new Giannis, who is all about "me first" instead of team first, says he's going to have to take on a bigger role and play basketball god out there. All the fawning over Giannis has turned him into a freaking prima donna who thinks the sun rises and sets in his ****. It's time to trade him after this season. After all the failures for so long he should have been the first one to admit that they've failed in utilizing Kuzma just like they stepped away from using Middleton, then traded him.

The truth is now on the table. It's exactly what I've been talking about for quite some time. As much as I've enjoyed watching Giannis play, I've also seen a guy whose push for personal glory with MVP awards seems to be more important to him than team success, and when that happens, you don't need someone like that on your team.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Both Lillard and Giannis need to go ASAP to at least get some draft capital. The longer Giannis stays with the Bucks, the less they'll get for him and the longer it will take to rebuild.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Ouch! Kyle Kuzma finally stated it flat out. The Bucks combo of Giannis and Lillard don't allow anyone else to be part of the team except in an auxiliary role. It's obvious that Rivers is either too cowardly to tell the two of them, or too poor of a coach to see it. But Lillard finally admitted that Kuzma has to be part of the game in a major role, and that they are not exploring and utilizing his ability to play downhill to the hoop, and key in on rebounding. It's like I said. Doc has his standing around watching the game! That's stupid.

Anyhow, Lillard sees that they need to include Kuzma more in their offense. On the other hand, the new Giannis, who is all about "me first" instead of team first, says he's going to have to take on a bigger role and play basketball god out there. All the fawning over Giannis has turned him into a freaking prima donna who thinks the sun rises and sets in his ****. It's time to trade him after this season. After all the failures for so long he should have been the first one to admit that they've failed in utilizing Kuzma just like they stepped away from using Middleton, then traded him.

The truth is now on the table. It's exactly what I've been talking about for quite some time. As much as I've enjoyed watching Giannis play, I've also seen a guy whose push for personal glory with MVP awards seems to be more important to him than team success, and when that happens, you don't need someone like that on your team.

I think Giannis is a team player, and he has a championship to show for it. We've covered this already, but the team became focused totally on offense once Lillard arrived, and championships wrestled won with offense (and mostly defense, imo). Giannis will certainly take over a game if he needs to, and because he can most of the time.

Now there's a budding star in Kuzma who is also being asked to score more - and by Giannis and Lillard no less.

The team needs a makeover. The shame is that it could have been avoided.

 

[Voyageur]

I think Giannis is a team player, and he has a championship to show for it. We've covered this already, but the team became focused totally on offense once Lillard arrived, and championships wrestled won with offense (and mostly defense, imo). Giannis will certainly take over a game if he needs to, and because he can most of the time.

Now there's a budding star in Kuzma who is also being asked to score more - and by Giannis and Lillard no less.

The team needs a makeover. The shame is that it could have been avoided.

I think Giannis was always a team player too, but he thinks in the back of his mind he has to score more to win because of how Doc's been directing their offense. In a way, he's right, but not by overshadowing other player contributions. His assist totals are enormous for a guy in his position, but he could add 4 to 6 per game. The move, putting him at 5 is a good one on a part time basis, but that means he's not playing facing the basket. His best game is going downhill to the bucket, and if they can do the same with Kuzma by Giannis concentrated a little more on getting Kuz the ball it would help. At this point, he doesn't trust the process enough to do it. Lillard sees it, and that's why he said Kuz needs more downhill looks.

Lillard's game was confined to a two-man game with Giannis, because that's what Doc ordered, based on what we've seen the entire season. Lillard recognized the mistake, and I think Giannis might have seen some of what it means getting the ball in Kuz' hands more last night. It was the perfect timing for Lillard to get a rest.

I've been thinking about the added firepower the Bucks will have when Portis is back on the floor. We're going to have 3 really good players coming off the bench. Those last few games before the playoffs are going to tell us a lot as to how far they could possibly go in the post season. I'm hoping we're pleasantly surprised. Sometimes subtractions, like having Portis out, gives others the opportunity to step up and you can end up incorporating that additional firepower on the floor.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think Giannis was always a team player too, but he thinks in the back of his mind he has to score more to win because of how Doc's been directing their offense. In a way, he's right, but not by overshadowing other player contributions. His assist totals are enormous for a guy in his position, but he could add 4 to 6 per game. The move, putting him at 5 is a good one on a part time basis, but that means he's not playing facing the basket. His best game is going downhill to the bucket, and if they can do the same with Kuzma by Giannis concentrated a little more on getting Kuz the ball it would help. At this point, he doesn't trust the process enough to do it. Lillard sees it, and that's why he said Kuz needs more downhill looks.

Lillard's game was confined to a two-man game with Giannis, because that's what Doc ordered, based on what we've seen the entire season. Lillard recognized the mistake, and I think Giannis might have seen some of what it means getting the ball in Kuz' hands more last night. It was the perfect timing for Lillard to get a rest.

I've been thinking about the added firepower the Bucks will have when Portis is back on the floor. We're going to have 3 really good players coming off the bench. Those last few games before the playoffs are going to tell us a lot as to how far they could possibly go in the post season. I'm hoping we're pleasantly surprised. Sometimes subtractions, like having Portis out, gives others the opportunity to step up and you can end up incorporating that additional firepower on the floor.

Well that is certainly an optimistic way to look at Portis's suspension. More minutes for other guys and Portis gets back about two weeks before the playoffs. Sounds good to me.

 

[Voyageur]

Well that is certainly an optimistic way to look at Portis's suspension. More minutes for other guys and Portis gets back about two weeks before the playoffs. Sounds good to me.

It's all I've got left towards salvaging years of wasted opportunities. Call it my last flicker of hope.

 

[Voyageur]

Look like Lillard is gone for the year. Tough break. It's pretty much the end of any dreams anyone may still of had of them being competitive in the playoffs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Look like Lillard is gone for the year. Tough break. It's pretty much the end of any dreams anyone may still of had of them being competitive in the playoffs.

Unless they can learn to play very good D in the next 11 games, agreed V. Rollins and another new guy whose name escapes me are good defensive players. But yeah, without Lillard, it's likely one and done. Same thing happened to Wembayana (sp?). Out for the season. DVT is nothing to mess with.

The only positive is that now they will be forced to develop a defense, or an identity focused on D. Seems like that's been missing since Holiday left town.

 

[Pugger]

Ouch! Kyle Kuzma finally stated it flat out. The Bucks combo of Giannis and Lillard don't allow anyone else to be part of the team except in an auxiliary role. It's obvious that Rivers is either too cowardly to tell the two of them, or too poor of a coach to see it. But Lillard finally admitted that Kuzma has to be part of the game in a major role, and that they are not exploring and utilizing his ability to play downhill to the hoop, and key in on rebounding. It's like I said. Doc has his standing around watching the game! That's stupid.

Anyhow, Lillard sees that they need to include Kuzma more in their offense. On the other hand, the new Giannis, who is all about "me first" instead of team first, says he's going to have to take on a bigger role and play basketball god out there. All the fawning over Giannis has turned him into a freaking prima donna who thinks the sun rises and sets in his ****. It's time to trade him after this season. After all the failures for so long he should have been the first one to admit that they've failed in utilizing Kuzma just like they stepped away from using Middleton, then traded him.

The truth is now on the table. It's exactly what I've been talking about for quite some time. As much as I've enjoyed watching Giannis play, I've also seen a guy whose push for personal glory with MVP awards seems to be more important to him than team success, and when that happens, you don't need someone like that on your team.

With Lillard out indefinitely it will be interesting to see if Doc will finally enable Kuzma to be able to utilize his talents. This roster as it is now is not championship caliber so now is the time to see what we have.

I never had the impression Giannis is some glory hound. In public he always stresses the team and winning more than himself. Of course who knows what he is like behind closed doors...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Even if you aren't a Bulls fan (I am not), you have to appreciate the end of this game and the call by the Bulls announcers.

https://x.com/NBA/status/1905450119442694602

 

[Heyjoe4]

With Lillard out indefinitely it will be interesting to see if Doc will finally enable Kuzma to be able to utilize his talents. This roster as it is now is not championship caliber so now is the time to see what we have.

I never had the impression Giannis is some glory hound. In public he always stresses the team and winning more than himself. Of course who knows what he is like behind closed doors...

Yeah I think with Giannis, whatcha see is whatcha get. As incredible as he is, he's a team player. He knows when to let other guys shine, and he's got an uncanny knack for putting the team and a game on his shoulders for a win.

That's best seen in the 2021 championship, where his offense blended perfectly with Holiday's defense and ability to manage a game. The good ol days.......

But yeah, with Lillard out, now we'll see just how good Rivers is at putting together and implementing basically a new game plan, with 10 games or so before the playoffs. And with that, we'll also se what we've got in guys like Kuzma, Rollins, and others who will need to fill a pretty big hole.

Maybe they average 20 fewer points with Lillard out. Giannis will have to be his absolute best, and Doc and the entire team will have to win with defense.

As a fan, it's a better game to watch - much more nuanced. Can Doc and the guys do "nuanced"? We're about to find out.

 

[Voyageur]

Hopefully Portis will come back strong and get some time under his belt before the playoffs. That could add a boost to the team, and create a different role for others, like Kuzma who has been forced to play as a 4 instead of 3. It would also add some rim defense as well.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Hopefully Portis will come back strong and get some time under his belt before the playoffs. That could add a boost to the team, and create a different role for others, like Kuzma who has been forced to play as a 4 instead of 3. It would also add some rim defense as well.

Forgot about Portis, and yes, he will be a huge addition and provide some much needed scoring - as a starter or off the bench. All hands on deck. Ultimately the team will likely be better off for the adjustments that will be required (well assuming Doc can actually coach this). I expect a lot of games under 100 points - hopefully wins.

Side topic - what is up with the Grizzlies firing HC Taylor Jenkins? The team sits at 44-29, has recovered from an awful 2024, and seems to be a solid, competitive team. Something going on here, but I have no idea what it could be.

 

[weeds]

Even if you aren't a Bulls fan (I am not), you have to appreciate the end of this game and the call by the Bulls announcers.

https://x.com/NBA/status/1905450119442694602

"Elizabeth, I'm comin' baby" ... LMAO. Redd Fox is smiling somewhere.

 

[Heyjoe4]

"Elizabeth, I'm comin' baby" ... LMAO. Redd Fox is smiling somewhere.

Yeah I am not and have never been a Bulls' fan. Even so, this is an exceptional clip and the announcers nailed it - and brought back a lot of great Sanford and Sons memories. And for the Bulls fans out there...... well for however long it's been since Jordan and Co. left, ya gotta take the thrills when they happen. We Bucks' fans aren't far behind, if we're behind at all.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

"Elizabeth, I'm comin' baby" ... LMAO. Redd Fox is smiling somewhere.

I didn't know what he was referring to, but now I do, his dead wife!

I do love these classic calls. The Zoom in on the Lakers fan at the end....perfect!

 

[DoURant]

What your video misses is the 2 shots prior. With 12 seconds left, Lakers were up by 5, and the Bulls went all Reggie Miller on them, which makes this even better.

https://x.com/DerekJones79/status/1905453959684165925?t=BRFVO4LCNL-j6GQZ2s2wvw&s=19

 

[Zartan]

I dont know what to do at this point.

Team is between a rock and a hard place. I honestly dont know where to go from where, I do know Doc Rivers isnt the answer and our roster is not that good aside from Giannis.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I dont know what to do at this point.

Team is between a rock and a hard place. I honestly dont know where to go from where, I do know Doc Rivers isnt the answer and our roster is not that good aside from Giannis.

Yeah Z, you are right to feel lost. It's cold comfort, but it's hard to tell how good this team could be if they had a real coach. Doc is a great guy and a great Milwaukee/Marquette guy, but he just isn't HC material.

The Bucks are still paying Adrian Griffin for that disaster of a hire. Doc has a 4 or 5 year contract. Horst has painted them right into a corner.

 

[Voyageur]

Yeah Z, you are right to feel lost. It's cold comfort, but it's hard to tell how good this team could be if they had a real coach. Doc is a great guy and a great Milwaukee/Marquette guy, but he just isn't HC material.

The Bucks are still paying Adrian Griffin for that disaster of a hire. Doc has a 4 or 5 year contract. Horst has painted them right into a corner.

The only option the Bucks have is to dump salaries through trades, eat the money on the Rivers contract, and begin development of what will actually be the equivalent of a new franchise without the aid of draft picks because of Horst's mismanagement. I've said this for quite some time, and indicated that they were doomed back when they traded Holiday away and spent so much capital in getting Lillard who is not the kind of player that can help lead a team to a championship.

If given the option between Holiday and Lillard, I take Holiday hands down because he's a facilitator on offense who makes others more creative, and on defense, he's the guy who can shut down the opposite team's point guard and make them less productive. Lillard? Absolutely no defense, and an opportunistic player whose number in assists is more attributed to his own offense being stuffed by a double team other than an assist that creates a play for other players. Set plays with him are a waste of time.

Giannis is a force. But there's not really much finesse to his game no matter what people think. Once again, like Lillard, a guy who scores but draws double teams, creating some opportunities for other players at times, but rarely anything that creates an offensive opportunity on a set play. Giannis is best suited to be a center. He's actually playing as a power forward, but he could utilize that talent as well at center. The Bucks have him at the 4 because they have Lopez, who will also be gone at the end of this season.

I'm 84 years old, so I've watched Horst squander away what was my last opportunity to see the Bucks become the dynasty that was there for the taking until Horst squandered it.

I'll still watch games, but I'm tired of Giannis and Rivers finding others involved to be scapegoats for their dumb decisions. I'm watching Kyle Kuzma go from a player who came in and wanted to help the Bucks win to someone that Giannis, Lillard, and Rivers have all alluded to as not being up to the caliber they think he should be. They're shutting him out just like the ended up doing to Middleton in the end.

It's stupid! I think the whole objective to ownership is not championships, but to find a way to dump salaries, show huge bottom-line strength, and sell the franchise.

 

[Pugger]

Unless the game has passed Doc by I don't know how we can say a guy who coached a team to a NBA championship isn't HC material. Look at most of this roster. It is hard to make chicken salad out of chicken droppings.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Unless the game has passed Doc by I don't know how we can say a guy who coached a team to a NBA championship isn't HC material. Look at most of this roster. It is hard to make chicken salad out of chicken droppings.

Yeah, Doc is the least of the Bucks' problems. The trade for Lillard was a mistake, and for all the countless reasons already listed.

I'll certainly watch and cheer for them in the playoffs. Personally, Im tired of comments, including my own, about all the mistakes Horst has made since the 2021 championship.

Time to move on. IMO, the first step is to find a new GM.