Badgers Basketball 2024-25
- Thread starter Voyageur
- Start date
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
They had good momentum, I wouldn't have been too upset with them taking it to OT. What I didn't like was that everyone and their brother knew that JT was going to get the final shot. They had 13+ seconds, coming out of a timeout, plenty of time. Gard should have been more creative on that final play. He basically said "Inbound it to John and let him get the final shot." BYU was ready, Tonje was the only one to touch the ball and he rushed an off balance shot (4 seconds left on clock) over a taller defender and it never had a prayer. Meanwhile, Klesmit was left wide open as he cut across the lane.
gopkrs
Cheesehead
- Joined
- May 12, 2014
- Messages
- 6,107
- Reaction score
- 1,658
I haven't watched any Badger BBall but I did watch the 1st half yesterday. I thought they misused the 7 footer that on offense stays at the top of the key. I guess he can shoot a 3 pointer but it sure takes him out of rebounding or getting the ball in deep. Anyone agree with that?
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
The Badgers have a couple of 7 footers, Crowl and Winter. Both players are really good 3 point shooters for big men. Crowl shot .416 on 3 pointers for the year and Winters shot .358 this season. For comparison, Klesmit shot .290 and Tonje .388 from 3. That style of offense (playing bigs outside), worked well most of the time for the Badgers.
The Badgers averaged 2.5 more rebounds per game than their opponents, so rebounding wasn't really an issue for them all season, consistent shooting seemed to be their biggest Achilles heal. I would love to see a graph of all the times during the year that they went long stretches without scoring many points. I'm guessing that in their losses, they experienced most of those stretches.
gopkrs
Cheesehead
- Joined
- May 12, 2014
- Messages
- 6,107
- Reaction score
- 1,658
Not going to argue with you about the Badgers. But I don't like that you bring up yearly stats as if they actually relate to when you play the better teams. Same in football. Stats just even out when you play bad teams and good teams so that they don't help you when trying to win in the playoffs.imho
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
What stats should I bring up? You said that you felt that the Badgers misuse their big man, by not having him/them under the net more for rebounds/inside points. I pointed out the stats that tell you why it has been a good strategy. Also, you may or may not have noticed, that Gard often has both 7 footers in and running a perimeter offense, while keeping one of the 7 footers closer in.
These aren't the Badgers of old, where they grind the shot clock down on offense, playing 3 men inside and 2 outside, looking for the best shot. They were scoring 80+ points in a lot of games, because of their outside shooting and ability to work the ball fast to an open 3 point shooter.
El Guapo
Cheesehead
Coming out of a timeout in that scenario, you should have your best five scorers on the court. There is no reason to limit the play to only one player, even if you've got Michael Jordan on the roster. That ball should have been kicked out to an open shooter or someone driving the lane. It was a poor shot selection.
Oh well.
Oh well.
gopkrs
Cheesehead
- Joined
- May 12, 2014
- Messages
- 6,107
- Reaction score
- 1,658
Yes, you make good points. And honestly, I don't know anything about The Badgers. I just saw that big standing there and mainly getting the ball and looking to pass it even if he could have shot it imo. It is a style of play. I just think that in general, you can't rely on stats to give you your best game against different opponents. Most especially when the opponent is better than the previous teams.
OP
OP
Voyageur
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2021
- Messages
- 3,194
- Reaction score
- 2,662
Gard was the one that put the ball in Tonje's hands for the final shot. He called for him to be the shooter instead of determining what they could do to create an open shot. He essentially admitted that's what he did in his post-game interview, so Tonje actually did what he was asked to do.
The problem is that doesn't work and hasn't worked all season. Every time he draws it up that way Tonje ends up in a crowd and it's a wild shot. Gard has to realize that no matter how good the guy is when you're battling double coverage your chances of making the shot go down very quickly. Tonje never looked to Klesmit because that's not what Gard had decided "was the play."
Gard's problem is simple enough. He does an amazing job of having plays that work when you take the ball out under the opponent's basket. They score on a fairly consistent basis and get good shots. But the play chose to go full court can't be that specific. It has to be more of a rotational play where you find the guy who gets open because you can't afford the miss.
Some people might think that Tonje was being selfish on that play, but I don't think that's the case. I think Gard told them exactly what was to play out.
What puzzled me most during the game was how poorly Gard used his bench. Only one of them got over 10 minutes on the floor. They were inconsistent because the rotations were completely different than they had been in the past. They made 1 of 9 shots and scored a total of 3 points by Gilmore. The way Gard used them was completely inconsistent to how he'd been doing it all season. You could tell they were out of sync out there because they weren't being utilized in same 5 player rotations as in the past. It was near the end of the game when they finally started to get their feet under them and become part of the flow. At that point, they became a different team.
The problem is that doesn't work and hasn't worked all season. Every time he draws it up that way Tonje ends up in a crowd and it's a wild shot. Gard has to realize that no matter how good the guy is when you're battling double coverage your chances of making the shot go down very quickly. Tonje never looked to Klesmit because that's not what Gard had decided "was the play."
Gard's problem is simple enough. He does an amazing job of having plays that work when you take the ball out under the opponent's basket. They score on a fairly consistent basis and get good shots. But the play chose to go full court can't be that specific. It has to be more of a rotational play where you find the guy who gets open because you can't afford the miss.
Some people might think that Tonje was being selfish on that play, but I don't think that's the case. I think Gard told them exactly what was to play out.
What puzzled me most during the game was how poorly Gard used his bench. Only one of them got over 10 minutes on the floor. They were inconsistent because the rotations were completely different than they had been in the past. They made 1 of 9 shots and scored a total of 3 points by Gilmore. The way Gard used them was completely inconsistent to how he'd been doing it all season. You could tell they were out of sync out there because they weren't being utilized in same 5 player rotations as in the past. It was near the end of the game when they finally started to get their feet under them and become part of the flow. At that point, they became a different team.
That's why they call it March Madness, eh weeds? It sure looked to me like Bucky was peaking at just the right time (beating Izzo in the B10. conference championship.
Then they couldn't score against Michigan, did fine in round 1, and then got bounced on Saturday.
Do you (or anyone) know how many players will be returning next year? Although with NIL and the transfer portal, such predictions are almost impossible.
All good points and two observations (and I don't know a lot about this team, so take it FWIW):
1) It's not uncommon in college ball or the pros to put the ball in the hands of the best player when a basket is needed. I've never been crazy about that, and for the reasons you cite. Alternatively, if another player had taken the shot and missed, Gard would have been criticized for not getting the ball to his "go-to" guy, Tonje.
2) Playing a very different game plan than the type of plan that brought success isn't very smart. And Gard should have realized this early in the game (down by what, 11 at the half? what happened to mid-game adjustments?). That one is on Gard. Coaches can get too cute, but with a really good team (and the Bagers were a very good team), it's not always necessary. The fact that Bucky was playing from behind all game should have been a wake-up call to Gard or someone. Didn't happen, and more than anything, that's why they lost imo.
Bummer. I expected my team, MU to not last. They didn't disappoint me. I had higher hopes for Bucky, as did we all.
