Bucks 2024-25 Season Thread

Heyjoe4

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Last night the Bucks reverted back to the sub .500 team they really are. The tinkering and playing with the lineup, and alienating players has followed the history that Rivers had as a HC in every stop. This team will be dismantled, and we won't see a decent outcome for several years I'd guess. It seems like Rivers has decided it's the guys on the bench that he mismanages in giving them playing time, that are the problem. It's why guys who played roles on all his past teams opted out in free agency the first chance they got.

Fifty years between championships. Horst just couldn't help but destroy the team by tinkering.
I think the Bucks' problems have more to do with the FO and GM than Rivers. They added a very good but aging player in Lillard. Giannis is in his prime, but he's surrounded by older players. To compound it, they gave away draft picks to get non-contributors like Crowder. Crowder is gone as well as the draft capital they gave up to get him.

I hate to say this, but the best way forward may be to trade Giannis and get some draft capital back. Same for Lillard. Lopez and Middleton aren't worth much as far as a trade. Bottom line- they need to rebuild with younger guys. It's gonna take some time.
 
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Voyageur

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I think the Bucks' problems have more to do with the FO and GM than Rivers. They added a very good but aging player in Lillard. Giannis is in his prime, but he's surrounded by older players. To compound it, they gave away draft picks to get non-contributors like Crowder. Crowder is gone as well as the draft capital they gave up to get him.

I hate to say this, but the best way forward may be to trade Giannis and get some draft capital back. Same for Lillard. Lopez and Middleton aren't worth much as far as a trade. Bottom line- they need to rebuild with younger guys. It's gonna take some time.
I agree on the front office. It's a disaster. Horst needs to go, along with the President. But the Rivers hire was as bad as the firing of Budenholz and hiring of Adrian Griffin. Blaming their idiotic decision making on the coaches. I half expect Giannis suggesting he's willing to accept a trade to the right team after this year is over. I also think that we just might see Lillard decline his option year for free agency, and we are going to lose Connaughton, Lopez, and Middleton. Lots of changes coming. Let's hope it starts with the front office.
 

Heyjoe4

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I agree on the front office. It's a disaster. Horst needs to go, along with the President. But the Rivers hire was as bad as the firing of Budenholz and hiring of Adrian Griffin. Blaming their idiotic decision making on the coaches. I half expect Giannis suggesting he's willing to accept a trade to the right team after this year is over. I also think that we just might see Lillard decline his option year for free agency, and we are going to lose Connaughton, Lopez, and Middleton. Lots of changes coming. Let's hope it starts with the front office.
And I do agree that Rivers is not the answer at HC. But what a cluster. They Whack Bud one year removed from a championship, hire Griffin to a multi-year deal and then whack him midway through the season (at least they owned their mistake), and then hire Rivers who no one else wanted. And somewhere in there they trade the guy that helped them win a championship (Holiday) and who was beloved by the fans and the community for a guy (Lillard) going through a divorce who wanted to be anywhere but Milwaukee.

It's beyond bad management. If it were a publicly-held company Horst would be gone. It's an insult to the fans who have supported this team for so many years.
 
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And I do agree that Rivers is not the answer at HC. But what a cluster. They Whack Bud one year removed from a championship, hire Griffin to a multi-year deal and then whack him midway through the season (at least they owned their mistake), and then hire Rivers who no one else wanted. And somewhere in there they trade the guy that helped them win a championship (Holiday) and who was beloved by the fans and the community for a guy (Lillard) going through a divorce who wanted to be anywhere but Milwaukee.

It's beyond bad management. If it were a publicly-held company Horst would be gone. It's an insult to the fans who have supported this team for so many years.
Totally agree. I honestly think Horst dumped Bud, then Griffin, to cover his own stupidity, blaming the failures on coaching. Then, hiring Rivers? More to show coaching failed, not him. Now they're paying long term salaries for two guys that aren't worth the effort as coaches.
 

Heyjoe4

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Totally agree. I honestly think Horst dumped Bud, then Griffin, to cover his own stupidity, blaming the failures on coaching. Then, hiring Rivers? More to show coaching failed, not him. Now they're paying long term salaries for two guys that aren't worth the effort as coaches.
I don't remember the contract details for Griffin. I thought it was five years but it's probably closer to three. Even so, paying a guy millions for three years for 1/2 year's work is a job I want.

The saddest part for me is losing Holiday, who is a great person with a great family and who loved it here, and the likelihood that Giannis will be traded. Giannis and Holiday put Milwaukee back on the NBA map, even if it was only one year.

(And I don't mean to slam Lopez, Middleton, Connaughton, Portis, and many other guys on the championship team. The NBA and the NFL are now built for young guys. 30 is the new 40.......)
 
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I don't remember the contract details for Griffin. I thought it was five years but it's probably closer to three. Even so, paying a guy millions for three years for 1/2 year's work is a job I want.

The saddest part for me is losing Holiday, who is a great person with a great family and who loved it here, and the likelihood that Giannis will be traded. Giannis and Holiday put Milwaukee back on the NBA map, even if it was only one year.

(And I don't mean to slam Lopez, Middleton, Connaughton, Portis, and many other guys on the championship team. The NBA and the NFL are now built for young guys. 30 is the new 40.......)
The window to being a dynasty has closed. I look around the league and see Donte out there, as well as Grayson. Both showing they can play important roles on a team. Then I see Holiday, and I look at our roster, and see Lillard, and his lack of defense. All I can see is the parade of guys who have come to the Bucks, giving up draft picks because they're going to be an important part of the rotation, then they stink it up, end up going elsewhere, and some not even being good enough to get a vet minimum contract elsewhere.

About as horrible a job of front office management as I've ever seen in sports.
 

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Only 12 games behind the Cavs. ;) ...and, #5 in the conference!!!! Can you feel the electrical energy emanating from my right index finger right now?
 

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Only 12 games behind the Cavs. ;) ...and, #5 in the conference!!!! Can you feel the electrical energy emanating from my right index finger right now?
What changed with the Cavs this year? They were a tough team to beat last year, and Donovan Mitchell is a superstar, but this is an incredible jump. Same for OKC.

And what happened to the Celtics? They're certainly way better than most of the teams, but still a distant second to Cleveland. What the hell happened?
 

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I don't know, man. The entire season is feeling kinda *****.
Yeah the very slow start and then a very good comeback. Now they are back to beating good times at what seems to be a better clip than last year, but losing to teams they have never business losing to. It's frustration.

Doesn't seen that long age the Deer District was rumbling with fans. I don't see it happening this year.

As for management, well it was Horst and Co. who went out to get Holiday to put the finishing touches on a championship in 2021. Just as quickly Horst dumped Holiday for Lillard (more to it than that, but that was the primary outcome). They lost their defense and the two offensive superstars in Giannis and Dame are just now figuring out how to play together. And all the while the team gets older and older.

If things stay this way, and they probably will because the Bucks have little draft capital in the years ahead, this will be a team that flounder for a few years and then starts a rebuild. I hate the thought of trading Giannis, but is there another way where he stays and the Bucks compete for a championship? I don't see it.
 

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Yeah the very slow start and then a very good comeback. Now they are back to beating good times at what seems to be a better clip than last year, but losing to teams they have never business losing to. It's frustration.

Doesn't seen that long age the Deer District was rumbling with fans. I don't see it happening this year.

As for management, well it was Horst and Co. who went out to get Holiday to put the finishing touches on a championship in 2021. Just as quickly Horst dumped Holiday for Lillard (more to it than that, but that was the primary outcome). They lost their defense and the two offensive superstars in Giannis and Dame are just now figuring out how to play together. And all the while the team gets older and older.

If things stay this way, and they probably will because the Bucks have little draft capital in the years ahead, this will be a team that flounder for a few years and then starts a rebuild. I hate the thought of trading Giannis, but is there another way where he stays and the Bucks compete for a championship? I don't see it.
They won the NBA CUP don't forget ... even if that sounds like a plastic athletic protective device ... ;) ;)
 

Heyjoe4

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They won the NBA CUP don't forget ... even if that sounds like a plastic athletic protective device ... ;) ;)
Yeah someone needs to send a message to NBA Marketing and Branding......

But yeah, they beat OKC for that in-season championship. And there was a decent amount of money on the line. One hight they beat OKC and then one hight lose to the Bulls. Weird season.

They do have a lot of talent, old or not. A deep playoff run is possible, but let's finish football first.....
 
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Watching the game last night against Toronto and for about one quarter Lillard showed he knew how to play defense. That's it. One quarter. The game before he played defense the entire game. Had busy hands and was getting steals. Kept his position between the guy he's guarding and the bucket. Did it all, the way it should be done.

Whereas I did believe he wasn't capable of playing defense I can now see he knows how. He apparently just doesn't seem to see it as that important.

I keep hearing from the Bucks that they are so much better with both Khris and Bobby coming off the bench. Meanwhile, they start two guys who struggle to find double figures, or even prove that they can play the boards in the majority of games. They start with a 3 man team out there. Giannis, Lopez, and Lillard. Then they have Middleton and Portis coming in off the bench.

The idea of Khris and Bobby off the bench is great, as long as you don't have two guys starting that are really not much more than place holders. This is the fallacy in what Horst has done. He's failed to recognize the need to field 5 strong and 3 main subs behind them to keep scoring and defensive consistency.

In fact, the decision as to who starts the game at these two questionable starting positions are the two guys that Doc feels will play the best defense because Dame isn't going to do it. He's taken some potentially good back up talent and benched them, and elevated guys that he considers "the future," and quite honestly none of them are ever going to amount to much in this league.

Before it's too late, the Bucks need to trade Khris, Giannis, Dame, Lopez, and anyone else who has potential of being a draft pick for the future. They need to get rid of Horst, the President of the organization, and send Doc packing too. They need a coach who knows how to develop talent but and doesn't try to "tweak it" into being something different.

I doubt I'll ever see them at the top again during my lifetime. It's a shame. I was supporting them and there for games back when they started and won their first championship. I'm here now, in support of the team after they won their second. I just think they lack the leadership off the court to make the team what it was capable of being with talent like they had when Middleton, Holiday, and Giannis led them to the championship. Horst got rid of too much talent for nothing just to prove he was in charge.
 

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Watching the game last night against Toronto and for about one quarter Lillard showed he knew how to play defense. That's it. One quarter. The game before he played defense the entire game. Had busy hands and was getting steals. Kept his position between the guy he's guarding and the bucket. Did it all, the way it should be done.

Whereas I did believe he wasn't capable of playing defense I can now see he knows how. He apparently just doesn't seem to see it as that important.

I keep hearing from the Bucks that they are so much better with both Khris and Bobby coming off the bench. Meanwhile, they start two guys who struggle to find double figures, or even prove that they can play the boards in the majority of games. They start with a 3 man team out there. Giannis, Lopez, and Lillard. Then they have Middleton and Portis coming in off the bench.

The idea of Khris and Bobby off the bench is great, as long as you don't have two guys starting that are really not much more than place holders. This is the fallacy in what Horst has done. He's failed to recognize the need to field 5 strong and 3 main subs behind them to keep scoring and defensive consistency.

In fact, the decision as to who starts the game at these two questionable starting positions are the two guys that Doc feels will play the best defense because Dame isn't going to do it. He's taken some potentially good back up talent and benched them, and elevated guys that he considers "the future," and quite honestly none of them are ever going to amount to much in this league.

Before it's too late, the Bucks need to trade Khris, Giannis, Dame, Lopez, and anyone else who has potential of being a draft pick for the future. They need to get rid of Horst, the President of the organization, and send Doc packing too. They need a coach who knows how to develop talent but and doesn't try to "tweak it" into being something different.

I doubt I'll ever see them at the top again during my lifetime. It's a shame. I was supporting them and there for games back when they started and won their first championship. I'm here now, in support of the team after they won their second. I just think they lack the leadership off the court to make the team what it was capable of being with talent like they had when Middleton, Holiday, and Giannis led them to the championship. Horst got rid of too much talent for nothing just to prove he was in charge.
The only player worth any serious draft capital is Giannis. They would likely get some existing players as well. It would be a blockbuster deal. I just don't see it happening unless Giannis wants out, and I don't see that happening in the near future.

Middleton and Lopez would not bring much in a trade. Lillard may be worth something.

And I don't see the reasoning behind Horst getting rid of talent to show he is in charge. That is a good way to get fired.

The Bucks are a playoff team that won't get far in the playoffs. The team can still be entertaining - certainly enough to sell out Fiserv.

The Bucks are many years away from contending for a title. Such is life for almost all teams in the NBA except Cleveland and OKC.

This is the team we've got. It's the product of a lot of bad decisions by Horst. If you're a Bucks fan, the next few years are gonna be hard. I'm not too riled up about it because it's done. Getting a new GM after this season would be the logical first step.
 
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The only player worth any serious draft capital is Giannis. They would likely get some existing players as well. It would be a blockbuster deal. I just don't see it happening unless Giannis wants out, and I don't see that happening in the near future.

Middleton and Lopez would not bring much in a trade. Lillard may be worth something.

And I don't see the reasoning behind Horst getting rid of talent to show he is in charge. That is a good way to get fired.

The Bucks are a playoff team that won't get far in the playoffs. The team can still be entertaining - certainly enough to sell out Fiserv.

The Bucks are many years away from contending for a title. Such is life for almost all teams in the NBA except Cleveland and OKC.

This is the team we've got. It's the product of a lot of bad decisions by Horst. If you're a Bucks fan, the next few years are gonna be hard. I'm not too riled up about it because it's done. Getting a new GM after this season would be the logical first step.
I said Horst got rid of good talent. He never should have been in position to trade Holiday. He was trying to put his personal stamp on the team by saying he was the man who knew what it takes to win in the league. He's an idiot on a good day. Now the players we had who were valuable are aging out and not even worth much in trade. But, down the road in crunch time arrives and teams are desperate to move up, the Bucks could get some value from several of their players. I'm not talking about a raft of #1s, but value for the future that might let them at least be somewhat competitive in the 35–40-win category.

As for Giannis, he plays basketball, and he wants to win. He's not going to hang around being a super-star on a team that's floundering. He's going to ask to be traded, and when it happens, they're going to find themselves in a situation where they'll get only half the value for him that they should if it isn't done by the start of next season.

Priority one is still get rid of Horst and let a knowledgeable GM make a decision on Rivers, and then attack the team's future.

So far everything I've said was going to happen after they won the championship and Horst started tinkering has occurred. There was absolutely no reason to destroy the chemistry the team had with Holiday on the point. Especially considering he'd said he wanted to stay in Milwaukee until he retired. As for his play, I'd take him any day of the week over Lillard because he plays both ways. A guy who gives up 35 points and scores 30 is still a loser out there, and that's what Lillard has shown he is, and at a huge contract figure that stymies getting other players that can contribute.
 

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