Blake Martinez

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Yeah, agreed. What are your thoughts on Kirksey? His numbers aren’t stunning, but maybe, like the Smith Bros, a change of venue will do him some good. I hope so, they need a lot of help at ILB. That said, it doesn’t seem to be a position Pettine values in his scheme. He admitted he’s all about stopping the pass. That really didn’t work out so well last year, not when Detroit is putting up over 100 yards a game and a 2nd or 3rd stringer like Mostert (Sp?) can decimate the team in the NFCCG. Anyway, interested in your take on the future of the ILB position.

Kirksey might present an upgrade over Martinez but I'm not that impressed with him either. The Packers definitely need to add more talent at inside linebacker this offseason for me to feel comfortable about the position heading into next season.

While Pettine puts a lot of focus on defending the pass he's well aware for the need to stop the run as well.
 

Heyjoe4

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Kirksey might present an upgrade over Martinez but I'm not that impressed with him either. The Packers definitely need to add more talent at inside linebacker this offseason for me to feel comfortable about the position heading into next season.

While Pettine puts a lot of focus on defending the pass he's well aware for the need to stop the run as well.
Agreed. And if Pettine wasn’t focused as much on the run, he will be this year. Finally, even the best coaches can only do so much with the talent they have. Responsibility lies with the coaches and players. In addition to beefing up ILB, the DL needs depth, and probably another starter next to Clark, at a minimum. Not sure how many DLinemen are left in FA, or how the draft stacks up. It would also be nice if guys like Keke and others on the roster could make a jump.

Hopefully we’ll have a season so we can continue this discussion.
 

PikeBadger

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Kirksey might present an upgrade over Martinez but I'm not that impressed with him either. The Packers definitely need to add more talent at inside linebacker this offseason for me to feel comfortable about the position heading into next season.

While Pettine puts a lot of focus on defending the pass he's well aware for the need to stop the run as well.
With 9 draft picks to work with, I’m expecting one will be an ILB.
 

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With 9 draft picks to work with, I’m expecting one will be an ILB.
Yes, but I kinda think if a good one is there; we should use the 1st pick. Maybe the Wisconsin LB. But we do have at least 4 positions of need and sure would like to hit on 3 out of four in the 1st four picks.
 

Heyjoe4

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With 9 draft picks to work with, I’m expecting one will be an ILB.
Yeah ILB will be addressed, again, in the draft. I have very little faith in the guys we have, esp Burks. Kirksey was the best Gluten could do with the cap and other needs. Here’s hoping either Queen or Murray fall to #30. I’m not holding my breath. I still think solid WR talent can be had in the second round, and if, as I expect, Queen and Murray are gone at #30, take the BPA or the best WR available.
 
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I'm just so happy Blake is gone.

Kirksey is an improvement.

While Kirksey is an improvement over Martinez he doesn't present a significant one. In addition him missing 23 games over the past two seasons is reason for concern while Blake was able to play in every contest over the last three years.

With 9 draft picks to work with, I’m expecting one will be an ILB.

I fully expect Gutekunst to use a draft pick on an inside linebacker. He might even be forced to spend an early one on the position for the rookie to have an impact next season.

Kirksey was the best Gluten could do with the cap and other needs.

Unfortunately the Packers might have overpaid to sign Kirksey. Hopefully he can stay healthy and prove me wrong.
 

Heyjoe4

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While Kirksey is an improvement over Martinez he doesn't present a significant one. In addition him missing 23 games over the past two seasons is reason for concern while Blake was able to play in every contest over the last three years.



I fully expect Gutekunst to use a draft pick on an inside linebacker. He might even be forced to spend an early one on the position for the rookie to have an impact next season.



Unfortunately the Packers might have overpaid to sign Kirksey. Hopefully he can stay healthy and prove me wrong.
They paid him about $5 mil/year, right? That is a lot for a guy who has missed so many games recently. Then again, I don’t think Gluten had a lot of choices in front of him that made financial sense. I was hoping for Littleton, but at $13 mil/year, well that was just too much given other needs.
 

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They paid him about $5 mil/year, right? That is a lot for a guy who has missed so many games recently. Then again, I don’t think Gluten had a lot of choices in front of him that made financial sense. I was hoping for Littleton, but at $13 mil/year, well that was just too much given other needs.

Actually, it could be more like $6.5M/ year. Without trying to explain his whole contract, its a 2 year deal, worth $13 M, with $4 M guaranteed.

I know a lot of people want to focus on his injuries and I get that can make people wonder if he is injury prone. Given the types of injuries and the expected recovery outlook to be good, some might want to view him as a guy with less miles on his body and eager to play football. Injuries can happen to anyone, there is no guarantee against them happening.

I have no clue how it will turn out, but I think he has an upside that you are getting for a nice discount if he achieves it. With Littleton, you are immediately paying full price based off of his great season last year, while playing with pretty decent players around him.
 

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Actually, it could be more like $6.5M/ year. Without trying to explain his whole contract, its a 2 year deal, worth $13 M, with $4 M guaranteed.

I know a lot of people want to focus on his injuries and I get that can make people wonder if he is injury prone. Given the types of injuries and the expected recovery outlook to be good, some might want to view him as a guy with less miles on his body and eager to play football. Injuries can happen to anyone, there is no guarantee against them happening.

I have no clue how it will turn out, but I think he has an upside that you are getting for a nice discount if he achieves it. With Littleton, you are immediately paying full price based off of his great season last year, while playing with pretty decent players around him.
Yeah I mean just saying a guy has been injured doesn’t tell a lot. Rodgers has missed almost two full seasons to injury, but clearly the kind that heal. I hadn’t thought about the silver lining, fewer miles on a player who has been out with injuries.

My take, my opinion, is that Kirksey will be an upgrade over Martinez. Throw in another guy from the draft with some athleticism (meaning speed), and the position group overall might be better than last year. There’s still not a lot of depth, but ya gotta start somewhere. Paying Martinez $10 mil/year wasn’t the right place to start.
 

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I'm not enough of an expert to go off on all of the different schematics between Capers and Pettine's defenses, but just from the eye test he looked better pre Pettine. Not sure if that will change anything in New York.
 
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They paid him about $5 mil/year, right? That is a lot for a guy who has missed so many games recently. Then again, I don’t think Gluten had a lot of choices in front of him that made financial sense. I was hoping for Littleton, but at $13 mil/year, well that was just too much given other needs.

The Packers would pay Kirksey at least $7 million if he plays in every game this year. He would make a minimum of another $6 million if the team decides to keep him for the 2021 season with him not missing another game again. In addition the contract includes another $3.5 million in incentives.

I agree that Littleton was too expensive for the Packers to consider signing him.
 

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Kind of interesting comments coming from Blake.

"LB Blake Martinez said as only LB on the field, he was the "cleanup crew guy" in #Packers defense. Didn't have gap responsibilities."

"Martinez, the new #Giants ILB, says he and #Packers talked but the way he valued himself was not in line with the way GB did. Also is combating misconceptions of his abilities, critical of the GB defense in which he was “taught and told to be the clean-up crew guy.”
 

tynimiller

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Kind of interesting comments coming from Blake.

"LB Blake Martinez said as only LB on the field, he was the "cleanup crew guy" in #Packers defense. Didn't have gap responsibilities."

"Martinez, the new #Giants ILB, says he and #Packers talked but the way he valued himself was not in line with the way GB did. Also is combating misconceptions of his abilities, critical of the GB defense in which he was “taught and told to be the clean-up crew guy.”

I mean this is why I strongly feel any competent tackler in our current system will do well enough for us...add in someone that can also move better than Blake did in coverage and they'll do that much better. A healthy Kirksey is more than capable of excelling in our system...but we need to be careful judging his success if he merely puts up tackles...its the type of tackles and if he does well in coverage which will illustrate if we truly saw an upgrade.
 

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The Packers would pay Kirksey at least $7 million if he plays in every game this year. He would make a minimum of another $6 million if the team decides to keep him for the 2021 season with him not missing another game again. In addition the contract includes another $3.5 million in incentives.

I agree that Littleton was too expensive for the Packers to consider signing him.
Good thing Kirksey has an incentive-laden contract, but it still seems pricey. But he was the best Gluten could do. Now the challenge is finding a solid rookie who can play next to Kirksey. Just my opinion, but I think Burks is done in GB. Give him another year, they certainly need the depth, but it may soon be time to move on.
 

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I'm not enough of an expert to go off on all of the different schematics between Capers and Pettine's defenses, but just from the eye test he looked better pre Pettine. Not sure if that will change anything in New York.
That’s an interesting observation. IMO, it still doesn’t address his lack of sideline-to-sideline speed, which is coming to define the modern ILB in the NFL. We’ll see in a year (I hope!). Everyone - stay inside and stay healthy.
 

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I mean this is why I strongly feel any competent tackler in our current system will do well enough for us...add in someone that can also move better than Blake did in coverage and they'll do that much better. A healthy Kirksey is more than capable of excelling in our system...but we need to be careful judging his success if he merely puts up tackles...its the type of tackles and if he does well in coverage which will illustrate if we truly saw an upgrade.

I think the intentions of Blake's comments is to try and answer the conversations about him as not being that good of an ILB, by him saying that he was only doing what he was asked to do.

Basically, "Blame Pettine and the staff, don't blame the guy who was doing what he was told to do".
 
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tynimiller

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I think the intentions of Blake's comments is to try and answers the conversations about him as not being that good of an ILB, he was only doing what he was asked to do.

Basically, "Blame Pettine and the staff, don't blame the guy who was doing what he was told to do".

Oh 100% I don't have any animosity towards the guy at all. He honestly EXCELLED at what he was asked to do for the most part really.
 

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I mean this is why I strongly feel any competent tackler in our current system will do well enough for us...add in someone that can also move better than Blake did in coverage and they'll do that much better. A healthy Kirksey is more than capable of excelling in our system...but we need to be careful judging his success if he merely puts up tackles...its the type of tackles and if he does well in coverage which will illustrate if we truly saw an upgrade.
You nailed it as far as Kirksey. As far as Blake being told to play cleanup, well we’ll see how he does in a different environment. But if the Giants get Simmons, well that can only help Blake. But at #10 mil/year, he wasn’t worth whatever the Packers we’re asking him to do. And I do believe him.
 

tynimiller

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You nailed it as far as Kirksey. As far as Blake being told to play cleanup, well we’ll see how he does in a different environment. But if the Giants get Simmons, well that can only help Blake. But at #10 mil/year, he wasn’t worth whatever the Packers we’re asking him to do. And I do believe him.

100% agree! You pay someone like that which does vastly more than clean up.
 

Heyjoe4

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100% agree! You pay someone like that which does vastly more than clean up.
Yep, and don’t get me wrong. I never questioned Blake’s motor or desire. He just didn’t deliver based on what is becoming the “new” NFL ILB - lighter, faster, able to stop the run (ideally at or behind the LOS), and able to drop into coverage. In some ways, the safety and ILB positions are merging. The problem - there aren’t a lot of guys who can play at that level. So GB is better off without him, at any price, and Kirksey was the best available option to Gluten. I love Littleton, but at $13 mil/year, no thanks. I’d rather focus the limited cap on keeping Clark and Bak.

And we all forget, or at least I do, that GB won 14 games last year. Yes the schedule is harder this year (if there is a season....) but GB isn’t that far from having a solid shot at getting to the SB. We’ll know more as the next month plays out.
 
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Oh 100% I don't have any animosity towards the guy at all. He honestly EXCELLED at what he was asked to do for the most part really.

I highly doubt Pettine told Martinez not to attack the LOS and racking up tackles several yards downfield.

And we all forget, or at least I do, that GB won 14 games last year. Yes the schedule is harder this year (if there is a season....) but GB isn’t that far from having a solid shot at getting to the SB.

The Packers have the 15th toughest schedule entering this season. I understand taking a look at opponents records from last season isn't a decent way to evaluate it but according to that metric they don't have a particular tough schedule.
 

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