Arrogant General Managers

[Sunshinepacker]

Different approach:
When you have a new QB and happen to win a SB shortly after his arrival, you trade him for as many picks as possible and start all over again, drafting a QB in the 1st round until you hit. Instead of paying millions of dollars on the QB, start paying to keep a strong defense and the players needed to keep a fresh QB upright. No more of this QB trying to control everything and paying out so much cash you can't keep the players you need.
Why? Just using the Farve, Rodgers scenerio. 2 SB's with BF, and 1 with AR. Why keep them if you aren't getting there?

Building a strong defense and keeping it together is FAR harder than building a winning team around an elite QB. Having that extra cap space is great for signing free agents but how many elite pass rushers or coverage guys are making it to free agency each year? Re-signing your own guys hasn't seemed to be an issue for the Packers cap-wise with an expensive QB so the only real issue it seems is signing free agents. I'd rather have an elite QB than be able to go out and sign two extra free agents who the team is going to overpay because free agency is ALWAYS more expensive than re-signing your own guys.

When you have an elite QB I think defensive coaches matter more than offense because, as I've said before, that elite QB raises the level of play of everyone else on offense but there's no position that does something similar on defense. Therefore coaching a great defense and covering up holes is going to be naturally harder on defense. Especially since what seems to determine success in the NFL isn't necessarily the number of strengths on the team but the number of weaknesses. Great QB play can cover a lot of weaknesses on offense but, as we saw against the Bucs, once a team finds that weakness on defense it becomes a major hurdle to correct.

 

[thequick12]

Thats fine I’d love to hear your suggestion of what you think Rodgers would agree to?
What do you have in mind for his current contract 2021-2023 as far as guaranteed monies? A dollar $ number will suffice

I agree with you I don't think that'll work.

I think at this point if you want Rodgers for more than 2021, you're gonna probably have to add 2 years to the 3 he has remaining while at the same time adding a bunch of guranteed money.

I say for more than 2021 because I think at this point it's pretty clear he's either playing in GB or sitting out the season...and I don't see him sitting out

 

[Heyjoe4]

That is really not as unconventional as it may look in the current NFL where QBs command a huge percentage of the cap. Lots of articles out there on the net that support your premise as wining SB teams have a QB with a cap hit less than 10% of the team cap. It would be a bold strategy for a GM to stick to because when you find "the guy" at QB and the fan base loves him it would be difficult to trade them away.


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/max-qb-sb-ring-facts-data-ryan-mccumber#:~:text=We collected our data from overthecap.com.&text=Of the last 15 Super,cap of the same year.

And you can't have one player holding the organization and fanbase hostage because he got his nose bent.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Different approach:
When you have a new QB and happen to win a SB shortly after his arrival, you trade him for as many picks as possible and start all over again, drafting a QB in the 1st round until you hit. Instead of paying millions of dollars on the QB, start paying to keep a strong defense and the players needed to keep a fresh QB upright. No more of this QB trying to control everything and paying out so much cash you can't keep the players you need.
Why? Just using the Farve, Rodgers scenerio. 2 SB's with BF, and 1 with AR. Why keep them if you aren't getting there?

If all you are doing each year is trying to build a team that will win the SB THAT coming year, you are going to be chasing your tail quite a bit. I can't recall one team that employed the strategy of winning a SB and immediately trading the super star QB that got them there. Maybe a peripheral QB that started in place of an injured QB, Eagles?

How many teams have you seen "start all over again" each season with a new QB and they suck? Bears, Jags, Dolphins, Jets, Washington, Etc. Further, a bunch of high draft picks don't guarantee you diddly (see previous teams mentioned).

The problem of winning SB's wasn't because we had Rodgers, the problem was, we just didn't build a strong enough team every season. Without Rodgers we don't make the last 2 NFCCG or the one against Seattle or ......

 

[Mondio]

And sometimes the teams that were strong enough found other ways not to get it done.

 

[Heyjoe4]

And sometimes the teams that were strong enough found other ways not to get it done.

Like the 2014 NFCCG against the Hags.......

 

[JoePack]

If all you are doing each year is trying to build a team that will win the SB THAT coming year, you are going to be chasing your tail quite a bit. I can't recall one team that employed the strategy of winning a SB and immediately trading the super star QB that got them there. Maybe a peripheral QB that started in place of an injured QB, Eagles?

How many teams have you seen "start all over again" each season with a new QB and they suck? Bears, Jags, Dolphins, Jets, Washington, Etc. Further, a bunch of high draft picks don't guarantee you diddly (see previous teams mentioned).

The problem of winning SB's wasn't because we had Rodgers, the problem was, we just didn't build a strong enough team every season. Without Rodgers we don't make the last 2 NFCCG or the one against Seattle or ......

Yes that's true, I'm just looking at the amt of cash being paid to the winning QBs lately. Not sure what Brady's making but I was under the assumption that he took less cash to keep or bring in the players needed to win.
I'll bet Mahomes and the chiefs are now done, regardless of how good Mahomes is. They won 1, lost 1 and now he's getting a huge amount of cash. Cowboys are history also. Time will tell.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes that's true, I'm just looking at the amt of cash being paid to the winning QBs lately. Not sure what Brady's making but I was under the assumption that he took less cash to keep or bring in the players needed to win.
I'll bet Mahomes and the chiefs are now done, regardless of how good Mahomes is. They won 1, lost 1 and now he's getting a huge amount of cash. Cowboys are history also. Time will tell.

Yes that's true, I'm just looking at the amt of cash being paid to the winning QBs lately. Not sure what Brady's making but I was under the assumption that he took less cash to keep or bring in the players needed to win.
I'll bet Mahomes and the chiefs are now done, regardless of how good Mahomes is. They won 1, lost 1 and now he's getting a huge amount of cash. Cowboys are history also. Time will tell.

Well your theory will get tested. I don't see the Chiefs or Dallas dumping their QBs anytime soon.

There's gotta be a better way to manage the cap. Is the league in this only to make money? (yes). Are the players doing the same thing? (yes, and occasionally no, or a compromise). Crazy me, I thought it was all about winning championships.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes that's true, I'm just looking at the amt of cash being paid to the winning QBs lately. Not sure what Brady's making but I was under the assumption that he took less cash to keep or bring in the players needed to win.
I'll bet Mahomes and the chiefs are now done, regardless of how good Mahomes is. They won 1, lost 1 and now he's getting a huge amount of cash. Cowboys are history also. Time will tell.

Most common mistake made by fans in Football = Assuming that there is a magical winning formula to follow to win Super Bowls

I know that sounds smart assy, but it is true. If there was a formula, every team would be following that and well, only 1 winner every year. The Pats won a ton of Super Bowl with Brady, so your idea falls flat if you look at their formula for success. Many teams have won SB's without a Pro Bowl QB, but then what did it take that year? Luck, injuries or lack of, a great defense, a snow storm during a playoff game, etc?

Anyone trying to insist that the Packers suddenly don't know what it takes to win, are either setting way too lofty of a goal, that of Super Bowl or Bust and/or aren't really paying attention to what the Packers have done over the last 30 years VS other teams.

Again, 1 team every year is either good enough and/or lucky enough to win a SB. A GM needs to prepare the team to be a viable contender and see what happens. I can point to a handful of things that could have changed the Packers fortunes last year and they would have hoisted a Lombardi. You can't say that about at least 20 or so other teams.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree with you I don't think that'll work.

I think at this point if you want Rodgers for more than 2021, you're gonna probably have to add 2 years to the 3 he has remaining while at the same time adding a bunch of guranteed money.

I say for more than 2021 because I think at this point it's pretty clear he's either playing in GB or sitting out the season...and I don't see him sitting out

I think we’re saying the same thing in different ways.
You’re looking at total length of contract and I’m talking guaranteed. Which could literally end on the same season.
You can sign him to a 5 year deal (extend him 2 seasons whatever) with 3 years fully guaranteed and it’s still the 3 year deal I mentioned.

Rodgers corner is smart enough to connect the monetary dots to calculate the “contract out”.
For example. No way does GB sign Rodgers to a 5 year contract 100% guaranteed. Unless he agrees to play for like $25mil annual etc.. or something crazy low, which likely ain’t happening). Plus anything longer than 5 years is nearly $$ suicidal due to his age.

What I’m trying to say is nothing matters except guaranteed money. He can do the money backwards to calculate probable playing term. He’s smart, he’s already eluded to the fact he understands this.. or he wouldn’t be flipping off the handle just before the draft happened in his final season in GB

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rodgers corner is smart enough to connect the monetary dots to calculate the “contract out”.

Glad that you mentioned that. Wouldn't you think that Rodgers and his corner would have been smart enough to connect the monetary dots before signing the last contract? The Packers and many NFL teams have been doing a lot of these type of contracts over the last 5 or so years. Lots of guaranteed up front money, but some decent outs for the team before the contract is up. They just did one with Jones.

I hate to keep b*tching about not honoring a contract, but JFC he takes all the upfront guaranteed money, knowing that after 2021 and especially after the 2022 season, the Packers intentionally gave themselves some outs and now he wants a new deal with guarantees?

 

[gopkrs]

Well your theory will get tested. I don't see the Chiefs or Dallas dumping their QBs anytime soon.

There's gotta be a better way to manage the cap. Is the league in this only to make money? (yes). Are the players doing the same thing? (yes, and occasionally no, or a compromise). Crazy me, I thought it was all about winning championships.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well as Cool Hand Luke said..."what we have here is a failure to communicate"

That....is probably the base for this upheaval....

Bob Harlan hired Ron Wolfe and gave him full authority over the team.

When he traded for Favre the trade hinged on Favre passing a physical...Because of the removal of most of Favres colon the Packer DR's FAILED Brett's physical, nullifying the trade.

Wolfe called the Dr's and told them to do what they have to do and pass Brett's physical....they did and as they say the rest is history..

Everything went through Wolfe and he solved the problems as they occurred...

This system established by Murphy has too many communication breakdowns and now the team is trying to get out from under his mistake and the system that has finally shown it's weakness...failure of communication between too many offices...

I remember an article written by Pete Dougherty that was about how this system was set up to fail...and now we see that failure...

What's most interesting about this great example you provide is that Harlan wasn't involved at all (I'm sure Wolf gave him updates, but the responsibility was Wolf's. I'm sure he didn't have to check with Harlan, "Is this ok boss?") I spent my career in business. This type of organization structure won't work because the top three guys all have to clear their decisions with Murphy, and there is no united front. Murphy should go back to fund raising. He doesn't belong in the NFL. Neither does Gluten for that matter. He's got an accountant's personality (no offense to accountants). GM of an NFL team is no place for an introvert.

 

[TAYLORBOY]

Great comparison to that type of personality...and spot on...

 

[OldSchool101]

hate to keep b*tching about not honoring a contract, but JFC he takes all the upfront guaranteed money, knowing that after 2021 and especially after the 2022 season, the Packers intentionally gave themselves some outs and now he wants a new deal with guarantees?

It’s not *****ing, it’s called supporting what you think is the right thing to do. Plus *****ing relieves stress and I see it first hand. I’m married.

On that note. Do you think that our FO will just stalemate Rodgers? At first I saw Rodgers with the upper hand. But I’m not so sure I see that anymore.
Rodgers would continue losing 50K daily and it’s a mandatory rule, so that’s enforced by the league and it has nothing to do with our FO. That’s just short term getting started. Then it kicks into far worse for him as an individual case as he could stand to kiss away 10’s of Millions.
IDC who he thinks he is, that’s just not very wise. No one has $15mil annual + daily fines to kiss away. That’s serious cash no matter who you are (ok maybe for Oprah that’s pocket change)

What think you?

 

[gopkrs]

What's most interesting about this great example you provide is that Harlan wasn't involved at all (I'm sure Wolf gave him updates, but the responsibility was Wolf's. I'm sure he didn't have to check with Harlan, "Is this ok boss?") I spent my career in business. This type of organization structure won't work because the top three guys all have to clear their decisions with Murphy, and there is no united front. Murphy should go back to fund raising. He doesn't belong in the NFL. Neither does Gluten for that matter. He's got an accountant's personality (no offense to accountants). GM of an NFL team is no place for an introvert.

I disagreed because I honestly don't think Gute has had his chance yet. I have to see how the players we have drafted pan out. I just can't blame all this Rodger's stuff on him. I have watched Rodger's personality on the field and it sucks. This past year was, I admit, better than previous ones. But a leopard doesn't change it's spots. I have been really happy having ARod as our QB and would be happy if he plays this coming year...for us. But no way am I blaming Gute for all this crap.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I disagreed because I honestly don't think Gute has had his chance yet. I have to see how the players we have drafted pan out. I just can't blame all this Rodger's stuff on him. I have watched Rodger's personality on the field and it sucks. This past year was, I admit, better than previous ones. But a leopard doesn't change it's spots. I have been really happy having ARod as out QB and would be happy if he plays this coming year...for us. But no way am I blaming Gute for all this crap.

If anyone is to blame before Gute, it is Murphy and Ball. I still think Murphy has been the primary reason for just 1 Super Bowl under his "leadership".

 

[gopkrs]

If anyone is to blame before Gute, it is Murphy and Ball. I still think Murphy has been the primary reason for just 1 Super Bowl under his "leadership".

Yeah, I don't know. Does Murphy actually make draft picks? I doubt it. For me, the coach and the GM are two most responsible for what happens. I sure thought Ted and Mike were running things the way they saw fit. Not that I agreed with it down the stretch.

 

[OldSchool101]

If anyone is to blame before Gute, it is Murphy and Ball. I still think Murphy has been the primary reason for just 1 Super Bowl under his "leadership".

Murphy was part of a committee that caused a stalemate in the NFL in 1982. His ties with player unions was a known cause of the NFL strike, causing the league to shutdown for 7 games. He’s got quite a track record. My understanding is that he was blacklisted by teams’ owners league wide after showing his loyalty to the unions.

That didn’t stop him, he just went and applied to the only team who didn’t have a single owner (they had thousands of them). The GBP
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...nst-nfl/d1e60ebc-a898-4ed4-870b-25bdf7d3e895/

btw. Anytime someone makes a statement like this? You can be 100% sure they are lying and want just the exact opposite. No one that believes strongly against going on a strike affecting thousands of family members casually takes just 2 hours to meet. Hung jury’s that are at a pass take days or weeks. I’ve been in a drive through fast food restaurant longer than 2 hours. Ok I’m B.S.’ing you on that part but you get the point.

“I take no pleasure whatsoever in this announcement," NFLPA President Gene Upshaw of the Los Angeles Raiders told a packed news conference following a two-hour meeting of the committee.

Term limits should be set on any executive leadership positions. 12 years maximum etc.. that goes for Goodell also. Each dispute causing ongoing league wide disruption should shorten the leadership term limits by 1 year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It’s not *****ing, it’s called supporting what you think is the right thing to do. Plus *****ing relieves stress and I see it first hand. I’m married.

On that note. Do you think that our FO will just stalemate Rodgers? At first I saw Rodgers with the upper hand. But I’m not so sure I see that anymore.
Rodgers would continue losing 50K daily and it’s a mandatory rule, so that’s enforced by the league and it has nothing to do with our FO. That’s just short term getting started. Then it kicks into far worse for him as an individual case as he could stand to kiss away 10’s of Millions.
IDC who he thinks he is, that’s just not very wise. No one has $15mil annual + daily fines to kiss away. That’s serious cash no matter who you are (ok maybe for Oprah that’s pocket change)

What think you?

I originally thought the Packers would flinch first and that flinch would be tomorrow with a trade and a dead cap split over 2 seasons. If they aren't entertaining any trade talks, then I take that as a "your move Aaron, are you coming to mandatory camps?" If Aaron doesn't show up for those, then I think the Packers need to make a decision 1 of 2 decisions. Trade him or fully call his bluff and make him sit out 2021. I don't want Aaron showing up the day before the regular season opens and expect to play. You are in or you are out and that means practicing when everyone else does. Problem is, I think he could do just that and I'm not liking that for team chemistry.

Personally, as soon as I know Rodgers is dead set against playing for the Packers ever again, his *** is on the trading block and may the best bidder outside the NFC take him. Might consider a trade to an NFC team, but it better be juicy.

As far as money goes, while he may be thinking about it, I think ego and making a point is more important to Aaron. So ultimately he probably won't flinch at the money. His reported net worth is $120M and I would guess that is on the low side. Even once he is out of Football, his earning potential will stay plenty high. His soon to be wife is worth around $11M and guessing her potential as Rodgers wife will also continue to rise.

Is it just me or is this feeling a lot like what the Favre situation felt like?

 

[OldSchool101]

I originally thought the Packers would flinch first and that flinch would be tomorrow with a trade and a dead cap split over 2 seasons. If they aren't entertaining any trade talks, then I take that as a "your move Aaron, are you coming to mandatory camps?" If Aaron doesn't show up for those, then I think the Packers need to make a decision 1 of 2 decisions. Trade him or fully call his bluff and make him sit out 2021. I don't want Aaron showing up the day before the regular season opens and expect to play. You are in or you are out and that means practicing when everyone else does. Problem is, I think he could do just that and I'm not liking that for team chemistry.

Personally, as soon as I know Rodgers is dead set against playing for the Packers ever again, his *** is on the trading block and may the best bidder outside the NFC take him. Might consider a trade to an NFC team, but it better be juicy.

As far as money goes, while he may be thinking about it, I think ego and making a point is more important to Aaron. So ultimately he probably won't flinch at the money. His reported net worth is $120M and I would guess that is on the low side. Even once he is out of Football, his earning potential will stay plenty high. His soon to be wife is worth around $11M and guessing her potential as Rodgers wife will also continue to rise.

Is it just me or is this feeling a lot like what the Favre situation felt like?

There’s little to no loyalty anymore in relationships and football is no exception. I don’t think our FO should compound this by doing the wrong thing and trying to make him pay beyond what is natural (not saying you said that). If we just stay away from saying anything deemed personal, I think time is on our side. We can recoup some $ and move on. Eventually maybe a few draft picks. If I’m GB I’m making an offer and then not saying one word. Let him come to us or deal with the consequences he’s brought upon himself. We’ll be fine without him IMO. This is getting too personal.

To many of these players they are all about status and money. While I agree on the face Rodgers has plenty, I don’t think he feels like he has enough. It becomes a way of life ...what a person puts their value in.

$30mil + possibly another $2-$5mil in fines is a hefty price. But to not play the season after an MVP year would be an absolute anomaly. It would define his career and not in a good way. He’s going to need to play his cards perfectly to recover from this hand IMO. I also think his representation is poor at best and leaning awful.

no it’s not just you. This is starting to get old and it just shows you how ungrateful and selfish he has become. Rodgers is compromising an entire team and staff. I’ve always believed God looks out for widows and Orphans (the fatherless etc..).
I’d take my chances with my God and an unproven kid who wants to play and who’s overcome great odds, losing his Father. Certainly over a kid who’s disrespectful to his parents and disowns them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What is interesting to me, egos aside, I think what is best for both sides is the exact same outcome, that of Rodgers being traded ASAP for as much as the Packers can get. Rodgers gets to keep playing, with a new team and make more money. The Packers purge a guy that wants out and they get maximum trade value for him. There will be some lingering resentment and conversations, but the Packers move forward and aren't stuck talking about "will Rodgers be back?"

Sure, pie in the sky dream scenario is everyone wakes up tomorrow and this never happened, Rodgers and the Packers are happy as clams and play on. That isn't happening and even if the Packers and Rodgers can somehow come to terms, I don't see this being over by a long shot.

3rd scenario is the worst in my opinion. Nobody flinches, Packers say "Report or retire" and Rodgers says "I'm just not reporting." In that situation this will be dragged out for a minimum of a season, if not 3. It will continue to be talked about, analyzed and short of a Super Bowl win every year, the reason the Packers aren't winning. Packer players will get tired of it and probably want out from under it.

 

[OldSchool101]

What is interesting to me, egos aside, I think what is best for both sides is the exact same outcome, that of Rodgers being traded ASAP for as much as the Packers can get. Rodgers gets to keep playing, with a new team and make more money. The Packers purge a guy that wants out and they get maximum trade value for him. There will be some lingering resentment and conversations, but the Packers move forward and aren't stuck talking about "will Rodgers be back?"

Sure, pie in the sky dream scenario is everyone wakes up tomorrow and this never happened, Rodgers and the Packers are happy as clams and play on. That isn't happening and even if the Packers and Rodgers can somehow come to terms, I don't see this being over by a long shot.

3rd scenario is the worst in my opinion. Nobody flinches, Packers say "Report or retire" and Rodgers says "I'm just not reporting." In that situation this will be dragged out for a minimum of a season, if not 3. It will continue to be talked about, analyzed and short of a Super Bowl win every year, the reason the Packers aren't winning. Packer players will get tired of it and probably want out from under it.

If we can get some draft picks great. But if Rodgers wants to retire there’s nothing we can do to control being a *****
I think we were looking for a QB when we found Favre and Rodgers. I think we can be looking again

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If we can get some draft picks great. But if Rodgers wants to retire there’s nothing we can do to control being a *****
I think we were looking for a QB when we found Favre and Rodgers. I think we can be looking again

I don't think he wants to retire or he would have done that already. I only see him retiring as a middle finger to the Packers as a result of them not trading him.

Gute has been looking, it is his job. Just like he has to continually evaluate every position, player and coach, trying to decide what is best now and in the future for the Packers. This isn't a static work environment that only requires checking in once in awhile, things can and do change fast. All those people, including Rodgers, who were butt hurt over Gute drafting Love need to look at the big picture and realize the guy was doing his job. I am probably wrong, but I don't remember such an over reaction by any player in the NFL of another guy being drafted behind him. Yet alone a 36 year old Super Star QB that about the last thing he has to worry about is being beaten out of his job or being unemployed, if he continues to perform at around his normal level.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't think he wants to retire or he would have done that already. I only see him retiring as a middle finger to the Packers as a result of them not trading him.

Gute has been looking, it is his job. Just like he has to continually evaluate every position, player and coach, trying to decide what is best now and in the future for the Packers. This isn't a static work environment that only requires checking in once in awhile, things can and do change fast. All those people, including Rodgers, who were butt hurt over Gute drafting Love need to look at the big picture and realize the guy was doing his job. I am probably wrong, but I don't remember such an over reaction by any player in the NFL of another guy being drafted behind him. Yet alone a 36 year old Super Star QB that about the last thing he has to worry about is being beaten out of his job or being unemployed, if he continues to perform at around his normal level.

That's probably because QB is the only position in which one guy plays the entire game. How many other times has a very good QB, that wasn't threatening to retire for 3 consecutive off-seasons, seen his team use a first round pick on a QB? I'm also pretty sure he's not concerned about being unemployed.

I'm not here to say who's right or wrong in the current standoff but in retrospect it certainly appears that Gute drafted Rodgers' replacement a little early.