A Training Camp Battle is in Store For The Green Bay Packers Wide Receivers

[brandon2348]

McCarthy is always looking for that second year jump, though recently I saw him use the phrase "second or third year", perhaps a recognition, or a revised optimism for this season, that the road is longer for some of these guys, Randall being a prime example.

Yeah, we have to wait for preseason to see what's what with Davis. Guys can get rave reviews in camp where there's little contact scrimmaging, and then not show up in games. If by preseason week 4, for anybody who makes it that far, not getting many snaps or getting thrown out there with the 3rd. string QB is kind of a giveaway. He has to show something to get better snaps in the earlier games and produce with those snaps to prevent that eventuality.

I agree with all that. My prediction is Davis will make the biggest jump out of any of the receivers on the roster. In college all he ran is a slant a post and a bubble screen. It is understandable he would need some time to develop. The fact that he bulked up shows that he is willing to put in the work which I believe is the key component for a lot of these guys transitioning to the next level.

I'm rootin for him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When you get down to a 6th. receiver or the 53rd. spot on a roster, you're looking at two injuries among the top 4 before the guy even makes a game day roster.

The Packers receivers were active for a combined total of 87 games during the regular season last season, meaning the team had either five or six WRs on the game day roster.

I wouldn't write Davis off just yet. He is arguably the fastest player on the team and put on 5-6 pounds of muscle during offseason. Well have to wait and see how this translates in camp but I'm still high on Davis.

There's no reason to write Davis off at this point but him landing in the coaches dog house, being passed by Allison on the depth chart as well as the Packers drafting two wide receivers should put him on notice.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Packers receivers were active for a combined total of 87 games during the regular season last season, meaning the team had either five or six WRs on the game day roster.

You may not have read to my last paragraph: "The strongest case for carrying 6 WRs is having a #5 who serves on special teams." A guy who is a core special teamer, but not a WR per se, would obviously make 5 on the game day roster as was the case with Janis last season.

I would not assume that the gunner or returner jobs come out of the WR bench this season. Janis is a player waiting to be replaced given his limited utility as a WR. Montgomery for kicks and Cobb for punts would be the default at this stage. You'd rather that not be the case, but somebody will have to show they can match their reliability (don't fumble!) and productivity.

Further, I'd expect the 3 TEs to be on the game day rosters most if not all weeks. There's talk of running more 2 TE sets. Kendricks may see more snaps as the speedier guy when matriculating down the field while Rodgers gets red zone snaps. Rodgers has some special teams utility having taken about 100 ST snaps last season.

Getting to 5 WR on the game day roster would suggest ST utility from one of those guys. Getting to 6 would suggest 2 ST players out of the position group. That I am not seeing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

There's no reason to write Davis off at this point but him landing in the coaches dog house, being passed by Allison on the depth chart as well as the Packers drafting two wide receivers should put him on notice.

Can't write him off, can't write him in. All the backup WR spots are up for competition. These guys will get at least 3 quarters of play in each preseason game to make their bones.

 

[Arthur Squires]

Call me negative but I just don't see Davis being effective for us. I have him catching under 10 balls this year. The one hope I do have for Davis is as a return man. He has the speed to be effective there. Davis needs space to build up speed also he isn't as quick or shifty for a guy his size. Lastly I think Geronimo has much better hands than Davis.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You may not have read to my last paragraph: "The strongest case for carrying 6 WRs is having a #5 who serves on special teams." A guy who is a core special teamer, but not a WR per se, would obviously make 5 on the game day roster as was the case with Janis last season.

I was just replying to your claim that the Packers mostly have only four receivers active on game day. You're right that Janis was mostly active for special teams although he played more than 20% of the offensive snaps.

The one hope I do have for Davis is as a return man.

Davis has to better take care of the football to have any positive impact as a returner though.

 

[Arthur Squires]

I was just replying to your claim that the Packers mostly have only four receivers active on game day. You're right that Janis was mostly active for special teams although he played more than 20% of the offensive snaps.



Davis has to better take care of the football to have any positive impact as a returner though.

I agree there. I just have a feeling he will be more effective their than as a WR

 

[Pkrjones]

So far I'm the lone "vote" for Max McCaffrey. He's 6'-2", 198+ lbs. and ran a 4.43 40 last year. I also think he's "hungry" to play and will willingly be a ST gunner in TC. Will be interesting to see if he can draw attention to himself on ST as well as route runner.

FYI - Speed/Size of those "on the bubble" for #5/6: Janis (6'-3", 219 lbs) - 4.42, Davis (6'-1", 188 lbs) - 4.43, Dupre - 4.52 (6'-2", 196lbs), and Yancey - 4.55 (6'-2", 215lbs).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So far I'm the lone "vote" for Max McCaffrey. He's 6'-2", 198+ lbs. and ran a 4.43 40 last year.

I guess that's because McCaffrey is an extreme long shot to make the 53.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Every body down on davis because they say he lack the strength to beat man coverage, but last year only 2 receivers was really beating man coverage and that was Adams and G-Mo. Davis really hasnt had a real opportunity to see a lot of playing time but I do hope he bulk up little.

 

[thequick12]

So im of the opinion the packers will keep 7 wrs on the 53 again in 2017 which makes sense as they start 3 and they have a lot of diverse talent anong the group. I think they will keep at least another 2 on the practice squad. who will those 9 players be?
53 man roster:
1. jordy nelson: look for him to regain his 2014 form catching more deep balls in 2017 than he did in 16
2. davantae adams: expect him to get a contract extension shortly before season begins.
3. randall cobb: he is too versatile and reliable a weapon for a team with super bowl aspirations to trade or cut.
4. jeff janis: he stays not because hell be the #4 wr but because hes the best special teams player both as a gunner and kick returner
5. trevor davis: hes got the best speed, along with janis, of the group and he understands the offense much better so he will get chances to make plays
6. malachi dupre: he was given praises all offseason after falling to the packers final pick of the 7th round. could he develop into the steal of the 2017 draft
7. michael clark: takes the spot from last years undrafted rookie geronamo allison. hes 3 inches taller and much more explosive of a player than allison. if you watch him run routes he looks to be a very promising prospect to develop who stands little chance of making it to the practice squad with 6-6 217 size and 4.5 speed.

practice squad
1. geronamo allison: makes it to ps after contributing in 2016, hes just a little too slow and doesnt play special teams
2. deangelo yancy: the 5th round pick ends up on pratice squad after being out played by janis a special teams and davis dupre and clark as a reciever

 

[ExpatPacker]

You really love Janis don't you even though as a receiver the only thing to his credit are a couple of hail marys. Yes they were great, but other than that what did Janis do? I wouldn't put Janis at #4 at all. His ship has sailed IMO. Dupre and Yancey both may be able to take on the gunner role.

Why the hell would you put Allison, who had a way better season that Janis, on the practice squad??

 

[Mondio]

I see a couple guys with the potential to take Janis's spot on ST this year. It will be a competition and while Allison won't take his place on ST, he's already beaten him out as a passing option. I think that kid is hungry enough to keep working and get better. I think Janis is too, but if doesn't have it yet, he's not going to. I don't like talking poorly about Janis, because I think he's a good guy. I think he works hard too. He's physical, athletic and you don't play ST like he does with out a great work ethic. It just seems he has deficiencies in his game and he's not ever going to see the field much at his given position of WR.

with some faster and athletic guys that will be down on the depth chart at different positions this year, I can see a few options for replacing Janis on the ST. Of course they will have to earn it, and Janis will have a fair chance to earn his spot again.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm of the opinion that it'smore likely we'll have 6 WR's, 3 TE's, 4 RB's and 8 OL on the 53 man roster. I think it's more likely that we'll have 27 defensive players on the final 53. Having only 26 means we'll carry 3 QB's imo.

 

[thequick12]

While I agree that it's unlikely even Thompson has released rookies that were drafted in the fifth round immediately in Jamon Meredith and David Clowney.

clowney was a 7th round pick. but he also released wr corey rodgers a 4th round pick and another 5th rounder lb ricky elmore after their rookie training camp

 

[Deleted member 6794]

clowney was a 7th round pick. but he also released wr corey rodgers a 4th round pick and another 5th rounder lb ricky elmore after their rookie training camp

Clowney was a fifth round pick (157th overall) in 2007. The Packers drafted Elmore in the sixth round (197th pick). You're right about Rodgers but I specifically looked at fifth round picks only.

 

[Carl]

So im of the opinion the packers will keep 7 wrs on the 53 again in 2017 which makes sense as they start 3 and they have a lot of diverse talent anong the group. I think they will keep at least another 2 on the practice squad. who will those 9 players be?
53 man roster:
1. jordy nelson: look for him to regain his 2014 form catching more deep balls in 2017 than he did in 16
2. davantae adams: expect him to get a contract extension shortly before season begins.
3. randall cobb: he is too versatile and reliable a weapon for a team with super bowl aspirations to trade or cut.
4. jeff janis: he stays not because hell be the #4 wr but because hes the best special teams player both as a gunner and kick returner
5. trevor davis: hes got the best speed, along with janis, of the group and he understands the offense much better so he will get chances to make plays
6. malachi dupre: he was given praises all offseason after falling to the packers final pick of the 7th round. could he develop into the steal of the 2017 draft
7. michael clark: takes the spot from last years undrafted rookie geronamo allison. hes 3 inches taller and much more explosive of a player than allison. if you watch him run routes he looks to be a very promising prospect to develop who stands little chance of making it to the practice squad with 6-6 217 size and 4.5 speed.

practice squad
1. geronamo allison: makes it to ps after contributing in 2016, hes just a little too slow and doesnt play special teams
2. deangelo yancy: the 5th round pick ends up on pratice squad after being out played by janis a special teams and davis dupre and clark as a reciever

Allison would be picked up by another team before landing on the practice squad.

 

[Mondio]

Allison would be picked up by another team before landing on the practice squad.

I think you're right. I don't have him as a shoe in for making the team, he's going to have to earn it. Barring a complete drop off, he's making a 53 man roster, our's or someone else's. I don't see him as a PS player.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Allison would be picked up by another team before landing on the practice squad.

I actually think that fact will probably have a big influence on the final cut(s) at WR (along with performance and injuries); "Who can the Packers safely slide to the PS, without too much fear of losing them?". The preseason and how the WR's perform will have a lot to do with that and their value to other teams watching the waiver wires. Obviously, you want to keep the top guys on the final 53, but if comes down to a toss up between someone like Allison and Yancey, the Packers probably try to slide Yancey to the PS and keep Allison on the 53. We may even see a few of those WR's not see a lot of action in preseason, if the Packers feel that he is a player that probably wouldn't make the final 53, but want to keep him "hidden" so that he can make it to the PS for further grooming. McCaffery and Dupre might be 2 such players.

I see the Packers wanting to keep as many WR's as they can on their 53 and practice squad that seem to have a good grasp of the offense. While a player could have the physical attributes to be a decent WR, if they can't figure out the Packer offense by year 2 and beyond, time to let them go. Unless of course, they are a big asset to special teams. If I am one of those 9 WR's on the bubble, I am playing my butt off on special teams, to try and set myself apart from the rest.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually think that fact will probably have a big influence on the final cut(s) at WR (along with performance and injuries); "Who can the Packers safely slide to the PS, without too much fear of losing them?". The preseason and how the WR's perform will have a lot to do with that and their value to other teams watching the waiver wires. Obviously, you want to keep the top guys on the final 53, but if comes down to a toss up between someone like Allison and Yancey, the Packers probably try to slide Yancey to the PS and keep Allison on the 53. We may even see a few of those WR's not see a lot of action in preseason, if the Packers feel that he is a player that probably wouldn't make the final 53, but want to keep him "hidden" so that he can make it to the PS for further grooming. McCaffery and Dupre might be 2 such players.

I believe the Packers will definitely keep the top players at each position on the 53 even if that results in possibly losing a talented one on the waiver wire. In addition there's no reason to limit the playing time of rookies during the preseason to increase the chances of signing them to the practice squad.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I was just replying to your claim that the Packers mostly have only four receivers active on game day. You're right that Janis was mostly active for special teams although he played more than 20% of the offensive snaps.

That doesn't tell us much. Cobb missed 3 games; Allison missed week 16 after settling in as the #4; guys are less than 100% at times with reduced snap counts or are injured mid-game. Here are some indication of the utility of the 5th. and 6th. WRs as WRs, not special teamers using 2016 data:

1. Using Football Outsiders data, during weeks 1-11, 5th. WR snaps totaled 72, or 7 per game. 6th. WR snaps totaled 16. Some of this is finding out what inexperienced players can do with some chances in money games. In 2 games, weeks 1 and 16, the #5 took no snaps.

2. Using ESPN data, those 72 #5 WR snaps in weeks 1- 11 drew 5 targets.

3. It was a tale of two seasons. After week 11, sitting at a 4-6 record, it was time to get very serious.

4. In weeks 12 - 17, the #5 WR took a total of 12 snaps. Even the #4 was limited to 46 total snaps over those 6 games.

With 3 TEs of varying talents this season (Rodgers a short yardage/red zone guy, Kendricks more a between the 20's guy adding better speed), and Montgomery capable of stealing WR snaps motioning to the slot, there's no reason to carry more than 4 WRs on the game day roster unless the #5 (and #6) are regular special teamers....gunner, kick/punt returner. Janis was hit or miss as a gunner last season, and will be vulnerable to somebody taking his job, which is typically a DB. I don't see any of these backup WRs returning kicks or punts.

In fact, that's pretty much the way 2016 shaked out. 4 WR + Janis for ST and injury backup + a 6th. in Davis when he was returning punts or a 6th. when somebody was dinged up with play time questionable.

Going almost exclusively with 3 WRs getting snaps in the closing 6-0 run, the 3 TEs plus Mongomery, and Janis on the bubble, I'd be more shocked if the Packers carried 7 WRs on the roster than I would if they carried 5 WRs. I see a 6th. spot coming down to Janis keeping his ST job or a guy with better perceived potential upside relative to another bottom-of-the-roster candidate at another position who they don't think they get onto the PS.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That doesn't tell us much. Cobb missed 3 games; Allison missed week 16 after settling in as the #4; guys are less than 100% at times with reduced snap counts or are injured mid-game. Here are some indication of the utility of the 5th. and 6th. WRs as WRs, not special teamers using 2016 data:

1. Using Football Outsiders data, during weeks 1-11, 5th. WR snaps totaled 72, or 7 per game. 6th. WR snaps totaled 16. Some of this is finding out what inexperienced players can do with some chances in money games. In 2 games, weeks 1 and 16, the #5 took no snaps.

2. Using ESPN data, those 72 #5 WR snaps in weeks 1- 11 drew 5 targets.

3. It was a tale of two seasons. After week 11, sitting at a 4-6 record, it was time to get very serious.

4. In weeks 12 - 17, the #5 WR took a total of 12 snaps. Even the #4 was limited to 46 total snaps over those 6 games.

Thanks, very interesting information. I didn't realize the Packers mostly used only three wide receivers for the stretch run in 2016.

 

[thequick12]

i wonder how many snaps/targets cook got after week 11 because he essentially became the 4. he rarely lined up inline.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

i wonder how many snaps/targets cook got after week 11 because he essentially became the 4. he rarely lined up inline.

Cook played a total of 193 snaps (50.4%) over the last six regular season games and was targeted a total of 29 times. His playing time (151, 73.3%) and targets (32) significantly increased in the playoffs.

 

[HardRightEdge]

i wonder how many snaps/targets cook got after week 11 because he essentially became the 4. he rarely lined up inline.

The numbers supplied above were done "by hand", i.e., no simple query, and it took awhile.

If you'd like more counts of this nature, you can use the following tool:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

And you can go to the ESPN player card for each player, and then the game log, to get targets for each game, as in this example:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/12537/jared-cook

I eyeballed the TE snap counts for weeks 12-17 and here a few impressions:

Cook's snaps over that period were not overwhelming...in the 20+% - 60+% range, with him getting more toward the back end of that period than the front.

Here's the most interesting thing to me: Over that stretch, the only TEs to take offensive snaps (or any snaps for that matter) were Cook and Rodgers and their aggregate offensives snap counts hit 100% in only one of those games.

In 7 man lines they were using Spriggs as the second TE because Rodgers remains a pretty sh*tty blocker. And there may have been a few 4-wide, single-back, no TE sets sprinkled in. But the data suggest Rodgers in-line and Cook split out did not occur very often (or maybe not at all).

We're told to expect more 2 TE formations this season. And there will be presumably 3 on the roster who will get snaps in different situations. That will eat into WR opportunities (unless the Packers go no huddle / 700 pass attempt crazy), which we certainly don't expect.

I've since looked at the WR playoff snaps from last season. Recall Nelson busted ribs and played only about 1/3 of the snaps in game 1 and missed game 2. In those games the #4 got a lot of snaps. I suppose it was a case of "we cannot replace Giambi, but we might be able to recreate him in the aggregate," even if that movie did not represent what actually went on.

I think you can expect on those occasions when Nelson-Adams-Cobb are fit as fiddle, the rest of the WRs are not going to get many opportunities. Some earlier in the season, fewer during the stretch run. But they'll get chances when games are missed by the top 3 or they're dinged up on limited snaps. Nobody gets 48-for-48 stats and 100% health out of their top 5 WRs.