3rd round WR Ty Montgomery

[Carl]

To make a post back on subject, I'm excited to see what Ty can do in the kickoff return game since we've been lacking in that department.

 

[Carl]

Early report on Ty is a good one. From Vic on Packers.com

"Did any of the rookies pop out at you on day one?

Ty Montgomery caught everyone’s eye. Just as Tony Pauline said, Montgomery looks the part. He’s got the upper body of a running back and the legs of a wide receiver. He’s quick and darting and he has a straight-line burst in the open field. Yesterday’s practice was all about movement, and nobody moved better than Montgomery. Tony predicted it."

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

this is what i predicted too when i seen his stature and combine numbers. a special physical tallent. it will all come down to the mental part to decide where he ends up on the depth chart... if he comes out like cobb did as a rookie, seemingly pre-tempered for nfl. or like adams did, where physical ability battles the mental mistakes, to determine how good he is. adams can be a julio jones type wr if he can master the mental game, and learn some tricks.... but cobb seemed to come in and imediatly made driver history, and jennings expendable. as a rookie! montgomery comes in and plays like that, what do we do with adams?

 

[DaveRoller]

Love all the talk about another explosive weapon on O. Montgomery may not just be the KR we have been lacking but also a big play threat on O.

Really exciting.

 

[Luca]

I´m not sure where you have the information from that he had only 16 drops in three years, according to Pro Football Focus he had the most drops of all draft eligible receivers last year although I can´t find a number.

They never said that. He isn't even in their bottom 10. They never published the number of drops for Montgomery though, but is has to be less than these 10 guys. The guy with the most drops was Vince Mayle, with 19 drops. But he also made a lot of catches (106), so he is number 122 on this list (15.20%).

By the way, note that Jimmy Hunt is on this list. He is one of our UDFA's. The good news regarding hunt though is that he also made the list of top 10 best slot perfermers (yards per route run) and best deep threats.

Another of our other UDFA's, Jevess Blue also made the list of top slot performers. But he also dropped many passes. He caught 29 passes and dropped 5 passes from the slot. He would have made this list with with 6 drops, so he didn't drop any other passes. So he has a drop rate 14.71%.

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But back to Montgomery. PFF doesn't show his number of drops, but according to NFL.com he had 16 drop over the last three years:
"Extremely suspect hands with 16 drops and three fumbles over his last three seasons. Allows throws to get on top of him. Hands lack supple qualities and his catch radius is smaller than desired."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ty-montgomery?id=2552429

He had 148 receptions over this time span. That would be a drop rate of 9.8% over the last three years (PFF uses= drops/catchable balls = drop rate, some other sites use targets instead). That is not that bad actually. However he ran a lot of shorter routes, so that might skew the number in his favour?

On the other hand, it should be mentioned that he dropped 3 of his 16 passes in the rain versus Notre Dame. Quote from the game review: "the combination of fierce wind, sheets of rain and sub-40 degree led to multiple drops in this game."Without these 3 drops, his numbers would look much better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They never said that. He isn't even in their bottom 10. They never published the number of drops for Montgomery though, but is has to be less than these 10 guys. The guy with the most drops was Vince Mayle, with 19 drops. But he also made a lot of catches (106), so he is number 122 on this list (15.20%).

But back to Montgomery. PFF doesn't show his number of drops, but according to NFL.com he had 16 drop over the last three years:
"Extremely suspect hands with 16 drops and three fumbles over his last three seasons. Allows throws to get on top of him. Hands lack supple qualities and his catch radius is smaller than desired."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ty-montgomery?id=2552429

He had 148 receptions over this time span. That would be a drop rate of 9.8% over the last three years (PFF uses= drops/catchable balls = drop rate, some other sites use targets instead). That is not that bad actually. However he ran a lot of shorter routes, so that might skew the number in his favour?

On the other hand, it should be mentioned that he dropped 3 of his 16 passes in the rain versus Notre Dame. Quote from the game review: "the combination of fierce wind, sheets of rain and sub-40 degree led to multiple drops in this game."Without these 3 drops, his numbers would look much better.

My bad, I thought I read somewhere that Montgomery had the most drops in the FBS last season. If the number from nfl.com is truly accruate I don't think drops are a big issue for him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

montgomery comes in and plays like that, what do we do with adams?

Adams is an outside receiver with Montgomery best suited to play in the slot. Ty will have a hard time getting on the field as a WR with Cobb playing in the slot.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

With all the positive talk about Montgomery's performance during rookie camp it should be mentioned that he dropped a deep pass from Hundley as well.

 

[ivo610]

17 siblings from foster care. What a guy to root for

 

[Carl]

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is although he has hast drop issues, he's still a rookie.

Rookies can and often do get better. He'll get a lot more work catching the ball now than he did in college.

All of our rookies have at least one weakness. Maybe by the time the season comes, he'll be fine as a pass catcher.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Montgomery looks like a guy that will line up in a bunch of different places but it's going to take a while for the guy to earn playing time as a top four receiver on this team (barring someone ahead of him getting injured). Now, that's not really a problem because he'll have plenty of value in the return game.

Don't have the exact link handy but if you search for Matt Waldman Ty Montgomery on Google you can find a link to Mattwaldmanrsp.com, where there is a nice write-up of some of Montgomery's problems. Waldman notes that he appears to have problems tracking the football and he telegraphs his intentions (example in article is that he extend his arms and turns his hips four strides before the ball arrives).

Matt does note his elite physical skills and mentions other players that have fixed similar issues in their games. I just think Montgomery is a project as a receiver, he's not nearly refined enough to be a starter. Right now he seems to be a guy that you design plays to get the ball in his hands (ala Cordarelle Patterson or Harvin) and I don't think the Packers run an offense that needs a guy like that. I don't think it makes sense to design a play to take the ball out of Rodgers' hands (I would hope this goes without saying but I'm talking about the passing game here).

 

[Mondio]

I don't think it will take the ball out of Rodger's hands any more than handing it off to Cobb or Lacey does. I can see him being slowly worked in to receiving duties over the course of 2-3 seasons, but I can see him being used immediately in certain situations to either take advantage of mismatches, or create some with some of our other receivers by confusing the defense or making it more complicated. Of course the play starts with Rodgers deciding where he's going with the ball.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think it will take the ball out of Rodger's hands any more than handing it off to Cobb or Lacey does. I can see him being slowly worked in to receiving duties over the course of 2-3 seasons, but I can see him being used immediately in certain situations to either take advantage of mismatches, or create some with some of our other receivers by confusing the defense or making it more complicated. Of course the play starts with Rodgers deciding where he's going with the ball.

The problem I see with Montgomery is that the Packers would have to design specific plays to get the ball in his hands. While that is fine on on limited occasions I´d rather have Rodgers throwing the ball to the open receiver than worry about getting our third-round draft pick, who at the moment is primarily a kick returner, involved.

 

[Mondio]

I"m sure they'll run plays at certain times just to get the looks on film. I expect that a guy with his skill set can add something to this offense and some of those plays will be successful. It puts different looks on tape for teams to defend against and I can see this helping in all sorts of down and distance scenarios, especially goal line. I don't think they become special plays for him alone, other than early in the year to get those looks on tape and see how they run. By the time everything really matters, Rodgers is going to read the defense anyway. Will Montgomery be the mismatch? or does his skill set in a certain formation create one elsewhere? I defer to Rodgers to make that decision when the time comes

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I"m sure they'll run plays at certain times just to get the looks on film. I expect that a guy with his skill set can add something to this offense and some of those plays will be successful. It puts different looks on tape for teams to defend against and I can see this helping in all sorts of down and distance scenarios, especially goal line. I don't think they become special plays for him alone, other than early in the year to get those looks on tape and see how they run. By the time everything really matters, Rodgers is going to read the defense anyway. Will Montgomery be the mismatch? or does his skill set in a certain formation create one elsewhere? I defer to Rodgers to make that decision when the time comes

I don´t believe Montgomery possess the skill set to either line up at outside or slot receiver. With that being said he won´t get on the field as long as Rodgers is the QB aside of some plays specially designed to make use of his ability to make tacklers miss once he has the ball in his hands.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

I liked the Rollins pick. I like what the Packers have on offense. We have some good defensive players who I compliment from with frequency.

There are things I don't like. I don't like how this defense goes through extended periods of bad tackling, lack of intensity and, of course, the regular defensive collapses in the playoffs. I dislike Capers and believe he should have fired this offseason.

You sir, are what we call a "homer", and if you want to keep that company it is you who is a joke.

You make good points about the D. They go through stretches, meaning games, where they don't even execute on fundamentals, like tackling. To me that's a coaching problem. And I share your dislike of Capers. Let's face it, the D under Dom had one good year, 2010. You can't win championships with offense alone. D and STs have to be well above average. And it doesn't help that two first round picks, Perry and Datone Jones have been busts.

That said, I think TT did a good job with this draft. I only wish Ted had replaced Capers with a younger rising star on D. But I don't see the D being any better than last year. As for STs, they have nowhere to go but up. I hope I'm wrong about the D, but would ask all on this forum for good reasons to be optimistic re: the D.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It'll be interesting to see how they coach Montgomery. Ordinarily McCarthy and staff train WRs to play all the WR spots on offense.

Eventually, if they're around long enough and they demonstrate the versatility to warrant the effort.

I recall McCarthy saying that he was adding to Nelson's route tree in the off season prior to his 4th. season. He started out as primarily a slot receiver. As recently as 2013 he took about 50% of his snaps out of the slot. It's a progression and a goal, not something they'll dump on a rookie.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Did you notice how they mentioned his similarity to DeMarco Murray?

Oh, sure. One guy compares him to Murray; another (a Packer scout by the way) calls him a "bigger Cobb". Unproven comparisons are fun, aren't they?

 

[HardRightEdge]

You make good points about the D. They go through stretches, meaning games, where they don't even execute on fundamentals, like tackling. To me that's a coaching problem. And I share your dislike of Capers. Let's face it, the D under Dom had one good year, 2010. You can't win championships with offense alone. D and STs have to be well above average. And it doesn't help that two first round picks, Perry and Datone Jones have been busts.

That said, I think TT did a good job with this draft. I only wish Ted had replaced Capers with a younger rising star on D. But I don't see the D being any better than last year. As for STs, they have nowhere to go but up. I hope I'm wrong about the D, but would ask all on this forum for good reasons to be optimistic re: the D.

Yeah, this defense goes full games, sometimes multi-game stretches, where the pursuit and gang tackling is lackluster. Then McCarthy carps about the bad tackling in the press, and the following game you start seeing a bunch of guys around the ball. Not to put too fine a point on it, it p*sses me off to no end.

Going into 2014, McCarthy promised an improved defense "in captial letters". Does anybody think he's happy with what Capers delivered?

I'll tell you this. Take any business and identify a star manager who was allowed to operate with relative autonomy until one day his boss decided to take a more active interest in that guy's sphere of operation. There are only two reasons a boss does this: (1) the boss thinks his star is going to move to greener pastures and he needs to get a better handle on what he's doing or (2) he's not entirely happy with his former star's performance so he needs to get closer to make a full evaluation.

I'll tell you this: (1) does not apply to Capers. And if anybody thinks that McCarthy's plan to involve himself more with the defense this season is not a reflection on Capers' performance, then they're not seeing the picture.

 

[SoonerPack]

Oh, sure. One guy compares him to Murray; another (a Packer scout by the way) calls him a "bigger Cobb". Unproven comparisons are fun, aren't they?

God you are insufferable most of the time. You conveniently left out how I was making the statement because my co-worker said the same thing when he watched the tape. I clearly stated I in no way expected a Murray type impact from Ty just that his body type and running style was similar. Which they are. I follow Sooner recruiting and was on DeMarco since his junior year at Bishop Gorman and watched him live in Norman on several occasions. I don't know why I feel the need to respond as you will cherry pick and misconstrue regardless of the contents of said response. I've tried and even (foolishly) apologized for an earlier post to you yet here you are again. I didn't join this site to get into pissing matches but at some point you just have to tell it like it is. You are a jerk and you have no interest in quality banter. If you are anything like this in person I feel for your friends. Lighten up a little. Stop cherry picking quotes all while never giving the back story. You would make a helluva writer for MSNBC. Have a good day or at least as good of a day as your attitude will allow.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yeah, this defense goes full games, sometimes multi-game stretches, where the pursuit and gang tackling is lackluster. Then McCarthy carps about the bad tackling in the press, and the following game you start seeing a bunch of guys around the ball. Not to put too fine a point on it, it p*sses me off to no end.

Going into 2014, McCarthy promised an improved defense "in captial letters". Does anybody think he's happy with what Capers delivered?

I'll tell you this. Take any business and identify a star manager who was allowed to operate with relative autonomy until one day his boss decided to take a more active interest in that guy's sphere of operation. There are only two reasons a boss does this: (1) the boss thinks his star is going to move to greener pastures and he needs to get a better handle on what he's doing or (2) he's not entirely happy with his former star's performance so he needs to get closer to make a full evaluation.

I'll tell you this: (1) does not apply to Capers. And if anybody thinks that McCarthy's plan to involve himself more with the defense this season is not a reflection on Capers' performance, then they're not seeing the picture.

McCarthy's decision to involve himself more in the defense prior to 2014 lead to the "quad" defense that was terrible. The main issue with this defense has been personnel. The Packers have fielded a dline with only one good player, a linebacking group that, until 2014, had ONE good player and a secondary that in 2013 was forced to start guys at safety that are now out of the league (or maybe one is a backup somewhere?). In 2014, the defense was given another good linebacker and a good safety and the defense was ranked 16th by Football Outsiders after adjusting for opponent. Imagine what might happen if the team had two decent dlinemen or inside linebackers that were worthy of starting status.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You make good points about the D. They go through stretches, meaning games, where they don't even execute on fundamentals, like tackling. To me that's a coaching problem. And I share your dislike of Capers. Let's face it, the D under Dom had one good year, 2010. You can't win championships with offense alone. D and STs have to be well above average. And it doesn't help that two first round picks, Perry and Datone Jones have been busts.

That said, I think TT did a good job with this draft. I only wish Ted had replaced Capers with a younger rising star on D. But I don't see the D being any better than last year. As for STs, they have nowhere to go but up. I hope I'm wrong about the D, but would ask all on this forum for good reasons to be optimistic re: the D.

While the defense decided to not show up during the playoff game at Arizona the 2009 unit ranked 2nd in yards, first in rushing yards and 7th in points. At that time the defense had way more talent on the roster than the current team, blaming Capers only is the wrong way to do it.

Eventually, if they're around long enough and they demonstrate the versatility to warrant the effort.

I recall McCarthy saying that he was adding to Nelson's route tree in the off season prior to his 4th. season. He started out as primarily a slot receiver. As recently as 2013 he took about 50% of his snaps out of the slot. It's a progression and a goal, not something they'll dump on a rookie.

Well, Nelson played more than 50% of his snaps in the slot because of Cobb´s injury.

 

[HardRightEdge]

God you are insufferable most of the time.

That's an exaggeration, like your Murray comparison. Whoops! I did it again, didn't I?

 

[HardRightEdge]

While the defense decided to not show up during the playoff game at Arizona the 2009 unit ranked 2nd in yards, first in rushing yards and 7th in points. At that time the defense had way more talent on the roster than the current team, blaming Capers only is the wrong way to do it.

So, in 2009 it was a highly ranked regular season defense with "way more talent than the current roster", yet the defense collapsed in the playoffs. It was the first in a series. Is there not a coaching issue here?

I don't blame "Capers only". But it's the place to start.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

If special teams is anything but a very minor factor in the first 3 rounds, something is wrong.

I don't think TT drafted just for STs, with the possible exception of Montgomery. Certainly Randall and Rollins will play STs, but I think they were chosen for defense first. And given other options, these picks were spot on. There was Luke Kuechly in this draft.