29th pick.. Eric stokes db

[tynimiller]

I highly doubt another team would be interested in giving up a perimeter cornerback capable of starting for a contender. It's most likely way easier to get a runner stuffer on the defensive line during the season.



The Packers trading King results in an additional cap hit of approximately $2 million. Not gonna happen.

I believe I had said I don't think they will trade him nor want to multiple times - just expounding on hypotheticals is all.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If Hollman can pull a draft pick I’d be king could pull a veteran DL or a swing at a guy that isn’t working somewhere. I just don’t think GB has any desire to move King.

Yeah and I don't get why they wouldn't want to move King. Fear of losing an often-injured corner? I know teams covet veteran corners, but even when he is on the field, the guy just can't play.

And if they play another game even half as bad as last Sunday, get rid of King (ideally for DL help) and throw Stokes in there. At least he has Alexander to mentor him.

 

[Mondio]

where are they going to move him? The re-signed him as a stop gap basically. He has some value, he's also a big liability at times. DB's just like him available in FA that have some value, but lots of warts were going to cost just as much or more. They went with what they knew. I'd rather they had just went with a youth movement across the board, but then signing him gave them more options in the draft, so whatever. win some lose some. again, there wasn't a great alternative.

and getting rid of him now makes zero sense. we're not getting anybody better at this point other than thru some set of crazy circumstances and dumb luck and he's going to cost more money to get rid of than do nothing with.

 

[Pkrjones]

He isn't ready yet for full time starting role opposite Jaire IMO. I'm a big fan...but not that big yet.

STILL waiting for King to be ready... Stokes is ready enough.

 

[Heyjoe4]

where are they going to move him? The re-signed him as a stop gap basically. He has some value, he's also a big liability at times. DB's just like him available in FA that have some value, but lots of warts were going to cost just as much or more. They went with what they knew. I'd rather they had just went with a youth movement across the board, but then signing him gave them more options in the draft, so whatever. win some lose some. again, there wasn't a great alternative.

and getting rid of him now makes zero sense. we're not getting anybody better at this point other than thru some set of crazy circumstances and dumb luck and he's going to cost more money to get rid of than do nothing with.

Good points. For good or bad, he's ours this year. It may not make much difference if the rest of the team doesn't wake up.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I believe I had said I don't think they will trade him nor want to multiple times - just expounding on hypotheticals is all.

My point is that there's no chance of the Packers trading King as it would result in an additional cap hit of $2 million. As I don't expect any team to give up a player capable of helping the Packers for his services it would be smarter to have him inactive all season (not gonna happen either as the Packers don't have that many better cornerbacks, just trying to make my point about the chances of the team trading him).

 

[PackAttack12]

Honestly, Stokes isn't ready BUT part of me thinks if you can get anything DL type in return from a team hungry for a CB due to injury or need I'd trade King even. His contract isn't terrible and he is a serviceable CB, but his time here has long expired in my opinion.

I didn't like King being re-signed then, and I really don't like it now. I hope like hell that Stokes is able to supplant him.

 

[tynimiller]

Stokes play time so a MASSIVE growth from week 1 to week 2

Week 1 8 snaps vs Week 2 44 snaps

King and Sullivan both are set to see snaps drop as Stokes makes Jaire able to move inside more (Sullivan) or outside (King).

 

[Heyjoe4]

Stokes play time so a MASSIVE growth from week 1 to week 2

Week 1 8 snaps vs Week 2 44 snaps

King and Sullivan both are set to see snaps drop as Stokes makes Jaire able to move inside more (Sullivan) or outside (King).

I've been pretty impressed with Stokes' play, limited as it is. He is able to make quick adjustments and has the speed to close. He makes King look like a high school corner. Hope this continues. That defense needs all the help it can get.

 

[tynimiller]

I've been pretty impressed with Stokes' play, limited as it is. He is able to make quick adjustments and has the speed to close. He makes King look like a high school corner. Hope this continues. That defense needs all the help it can get.

I've always said I got high hopes for him and while a rookie there have already been a few plays where he flashes such immense potential.

The issue is we have no way of knowing what he will become, but I like what I'm seeing. The secondary in general needs to get their communication leveled up asap as that is the massive issue I see continually and at times it has caused King to look worse than he already is (which is bad for sure).

 

[Pkrjones]

Cross posted from the "Kevin King" thread, also...
In 11 games in 2020 Kevin King had 5 passes defended. Two games in 2021 he's got 1.
In 2 games in 2021 Eric Stokes has 3 passes defended!!! Hoping Barry & MLF are "stat guys".

 

[Heyjoe4]

I've always said I got high hopes for him and while a rookie there have already been a few plays where he flashes such immense potential.

The issue is we have no way of knowing what he will become, but I like what I'm seeing. The secondary in general needs to get their communication leveled up asap as that is the massive issue I see continually and at times it has caused King to look worse than he already is (which is bad for sure).

Ha, a legitimate defense of King. Yeah the communication problems with the secondary are really problematic because it's the most talented group on the D. I blame that on Barry and his secondary coaches not making sure the players are on board with a new system. I expect some hiccups, but at times against the Saints, it looked like guys had no idea where they should be or what play was called.

Back to Stokes, let the kid play. With that speed and ability to change direction, I think he's gonna be special.

 

[tynimiller]

Ha, a legitimate defense of King. Yeah the communication problems with the secondary are really problematic because it's the most talented group on the D. I blame that on Barry and his secondary coaches not making sure the players are on board with a new system. I expect some hiccups, but at times against the Saints, it looked like guys had no idea where they should be or what play was called.

Back to Stokes, let the kid play. With that speed and ability to change direction, I think he's gonna be special.

Legitimate maybe but it is only between terrible and bad for him LOL

I concur and the coaches clearly are seeing it in Stokes too given his massive snap count jump from week 1 to 2. I expect we won't see less than 2/3 of snaps out of him unless we come up against a high rushing attack style team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Legitimate maybe but it is only between terrible and bad for him LOL

I concur and the coaches clearly are seeing it in Stokes too given his massive snap count jump from week 1 to 2. I expect we won't see less than 2/3 of snaps out of him unless we come up against a high rushing attack style team.

These days, "terrible or bad" gets you $6 mil if you're negotiating with Russ Ball. I kinda get why they kept King, I don't get the price. Hopefully Stokes can follow in the shadow of Alexander. If he's 75% as good, he'll be great.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah the communication problems with the secondary are really problematic because it's the most talented group on the D.

The Packers lack another outside cornerback capable of performing at a decent level for the secondary to be considered elite. Stokes has shown a lot of promise vs. the Lions, if he can improve over the course of the season the team might end up with a great unit at some point later this season.

These days, "terrible or bad" gets you $6 mil if you're negotiating with Russ Ball. I kinda get why they kept King, I don't get the price.

FWIW King's contract is worth a total of $5 million.

 

[Sanguine camper]

At this point, there is no downside for the Packers by playing Stokes ahead of King. King is a huge liability and is at a point where he won't improve. Stokes has already shown more athleticism than King and while he will make rookie mistakes, he has the chance to learn from them and improve each week. Hey Coach, put him in there!

 

[tynimiller]

I'm curious if with King's size we don't see him slide to slot, especially on teams with a hybrid type TE. I also suspect we see more sliding Jaire inside too with King and Stokes outside. Either way we cut it, Stokes is very raw but if he continues to grow and show promise this secondary like our OL is shaping up to be very good by mid season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm curious if with King's size we don't see him slide to slot, especially on teams with a hybrid type TE. I also suspect we see more sliding Jaire inside too with King and Stokes outside. Either way we cut it, Stokes is very raw but if he continues to grow and show promise this secondary like our OL is shaping up to be very good by mid season.

While I'm in favor of trying King in the slot I don't want him paired on the outside with Stokes.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm curious if with King's size we don't see him slide to slot, especially on teams with a hybrid type TE. I also suspect we see more sliding Jaire inside too with King and Stokes outside. Either way we cut it, Stokes is very raw but if he continues to grow and show promise this secondary like our OL is shaping up to be very good by mid season.

Yeah I think you're right about how to use King. He'll match up better with TEs given his height but lack of speed. He won't struggle as much with true slot receivers as the field will be 'shortened" for him. And Alexander is good enough to slide inside if help is needed, or a safety could drop down as a last resort to stop a big gain over the middle. Good idea.

 

[Heyjoe4]

While I'm in favor of trying King in the slot I don't want him paired on the outside with Stokes.

Yeah if King is going to play wide he'll have to be paired with Alexander on the other side. I suppose in that case they could try Stokes at slot to see what he can do - but his ultimate position is outside once he has more experience.

 

[Pkrjones]

Yeah if King is going to play wide he'll have to be paired with Alexander on the other side. I suppose in that case they could try Stokes at slot to see what he can do - but his ultimate position is outside once he has more experience.

NO!! King is never, ever, to play outside again! How many more TD's with King running 2 steps behind are we willing to watch? If he can't make it inside at slot he's completely useless to the Packers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

NO!! King is never, ever, to play outside again! How many more TD's with King running 2 steps behind are we willing to watch? If he can't make it inside at slot he's completely useless to the Packers.

I don't disagree with you at all Pkr. But I don't think Joe Barry plans to play King exclusively inside. We all saw King get burned for something like 50 yards last week by Goff. Part of the fault on that play was with the pass rush. Goff had an incredible amount of time on that play and there wasn't a defender within 5 yards of him. Awful DL play.

That still doesn't change the fact that King is a lousy corner. And apparently worth $5 mil. Wish I had a job where I got paid $5 mil/year to be a failure.

And please, don't get me started on Joe Barry.......

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not saying it isn't fiscally possible, although I don't think we have that much space, I was merely saying I don't see it given everything which has transpired especially the signing of King with dead money beyond this season.

Yeah I’m not saying they WILL make a move, I’m more saying Id personally wait until week of trade deadline to evaluate the current DL and OL and our playoff outlook.
If I see us worthy of playoffs but sporting a position weakness? Id at least attempt to better this years team using a bonus day 3 draft selection depending on who it is. I’m keying on DL, but attaining a productive veteran OL might not be out if the equation if DL isn’t there.

 

[OldSchool101]

STILL waiting for King to be ready... Stokes is ready enough.

agreed. Stokes played fine Monday, I feel he’ll only get better over time.

As for King he played the most snaps from the Slot (22) sharing it with J’aire and Sullivan against the Lions. I still think that’s his niche and he can be productive inside and against the Run. It’s apparent that the Coaches are coming to terms with him not being exclusively out on the perimeter.
I completely understand the frustration though. We’re already seeing Stokes phases in (fingers crossed).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah if King is going to play wide he'll have to be paired with Alexander on the other side. I suppose in that case they could try Stokes at slot to see what he can do - but his ultimate position is outside once he has more experience.

I would much rather prefer to have Alexander paired with Stokes on the outside and don't have King line up there as long as both of them are healthy.