2023 Tyni's Prospect Thread

[Pkrjones]

OK, I won't "write off" LaPorta just yet. FYI ~ Zack Kuntz has a 10.00 RAS.

 

[tynimiller]

OK, I won't "write off" LaPorta just yet. FYI ~ Zack Kuntz has a 10.00 RAS.

Most everyone expected Kuntz was going to physically test off the charts. I had him as a + athlete who with his background was most likely going to absolutely shine at measureables.

He has a long way to go as far as learning to block through technique but it is clear from a measures standpoint why he was a massively touted recruit that Penn State gobbled up only to lose him than in the post Covid year to Old Dominion....he shined in 2021 against CUSA competition but injury essentially ended his 2022 campaign where he was hoping to prove a high level TE prospect.

Raw athleticism is there, but with all of his speed, and explosiveness which is physically there he is shockingly pedestrian in YAC production - but he is an untapped powder keg which I think in a year's time the team that nabs him will know if you have an absolute dynamite project on your hands or the powder is wet inside and he is even worse than the Sternbeger experiment.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

LaPorta everyone knew was under 6'4' that watched tape and saw that Iowa listed him just at it...I've yet to see any school put the actual measurement and I swear many seem to just ask the player lol

I think it is something in the air in Indianapolis. So many guys come back shorter than they were when they arrived.

 

[tynimiller]

I think it is something in the air in Indianapolis. So many guys come back shorter than they were when they arrived.

BUT some taller. It was massive for Kancey to come in and hit 6'1' as many worried he may barely hit six foot.

 

[OldSchool101]

I keep coming back to the concept of don't push TE, let one come to you at 45 out of the top 5/6...then double dip mid rounds on a guy like Davis Allen, Zach Kuntz, Payne Durham or such.

Given that the Packers TE cupboard is almost bare, I wouldn't be surprised to see them double dip at the position, especially if they can accumulate a few extra picks in a Rodgers trade and/or trading back in the first round.

Interesting I did some research and each team has a positions list.
Primary, Secondary and Tertiary [TheDraftNetwork]

Only 9 teams list TE as a primary or secondary need. Just 6 teams have it as a primary need along with 2-3 other positions.

Primary TE needed:
Team (draft order)
Panthers (9th)
Saints (10th)
Packers (15th)
Dolphins (21st)
Jags (25th)
Giants (26th)

Secondary TE need:
Team (draft order)
Rams (6th)
Chargers (22nd)
Bengals (29th)
This bodes extremely well for Green Bay imo. It also validated what Tyni said about waiting until our natural selection. It’s not a position we need to reach and we still likely have a very good top end choice through #45 overall.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting I did some research and each team has a positions list.
Primary, Secondary and Tertiary [DraftNetwork]

Only 9 teams list TE as a primary or secondary need. Just 6 teams have it as a primary need along with 2-3 other positions.

Primary TE needed:
Panthers (9th)
Saints (10th)
Packers (15th)
Dolphins (21st)
Jags (25th)
Giants (26th)

Secondary TE need:
Rams (6)
Chargers (22)

This bodes extremely well for Green Bay imo.

Good research, thanks. I don't think any team needs to be in a hurry to draft a TE, but I do think that if the majority of the good ones are still on the board, we will see a big run on 4 or 5 of them in round 2.

Also, I just realized that there are some decent FA TE's that might soon be on the market. Not sure if your research assumed that their teams would resign them or if not, how that will effect the teams that do sign one of them.

Those TE's are:

- Mike Gesicki
- Dalton Schultz
- Evan Engram
- Austin Hooper
- Hayden Hurst

 

[Pkrjones]

Good research, thanks. I don't think any team needs to be in a hurry to draft a TE, but I do think that if the majority of the good ones are still on the board, we will see a big run on 4 or 5 of them in round 2.

Also, I just realized that there are some decent FA TE's that might soon be on the market. Not sure if your research assumed that their teams would resign them or if not, how that will effect the teams that do sign one of them.

Those TE's are:

- Mike Gesicki
- Dalton Schultz
- Evan Engram
- Austin Hooper
- Hayden Hurst

Spotrac Free Agent Tracker has a comprehensive list of TE's & on some have a breakdown of their "Market Value" for discussion sake.

- Mike Gesicki - $8.2Mil
- Dalton Schultz - $15.1Mil
- Evan Engram - $9.3mil
- Austin Hooper - $6.7Mil
- Hayden Hurst - $6.8Mil
- Robert Tonyan - $5Mil ( I believe towards beginning of '22 season was over $9Mil)
- Irv Smith - $10.2Mil

Might be worth signing Tonyan for another year to go with a couple of draftees (rounds 2 & 5?)?

 

[tynimiller]

Spotrac Free Agent Tracker has a comprehensive list of TE's & on some have a breakdown of their "Market Value" for discussion sake.

- Mike Gesicki - $8.2Mil
- Dalton Schultz - $15.1Mil
- Evan Engram - $9.3mil
- Austin Hooper - $6.7Mil
- Hayden Hurst - $6.8Mil
- Robert Tonyan - $5Mil ( I believe towards beginning of '22 season was over $9Mil)
- Irv Smith - $10.2Mil

Might be worth signing Tonyan for another year to go with a couple of draftees (rounds 2 & 5?)?

Lewis makes much more sense to sign low and draft support than Tonyan IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Lewis makes much more sense to sign low and draft support than Tonyan IMO.

Agreed, unless maybe of course, Rodgers stays and wants both Lewis and Tonyan.

If Love is the QB, I can see resigning Lewis at around vet min and going out and getting him some new TE's to work with via the draft and or Free Agency.

The Good News for the Packers....there is a pretty big market of FA's and draftees at the TE position. A position I think has major need right now for the Packers. This large pool of both FA's and draftees, should keep the price low on signing a FA TE.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

But we ask ourselves. He’s 6’6” 5/8 so can he catch? Hmmm

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WOW!!!

 

[tynimiller]

Agreed, unless maybe of course, Rodgers stays and wants both Lewis and Tonyan.

If Love is the QB, I can see resigning Lewis at around vet min and going out and getting him some new TE's to work with via the draft and or Free Agency.

The Good News for the Packers....there is a pretty big market of FA's and draftees at the TE position. A position I think has major need right now for the Packers. This large pool of both FA's and draftees, should keep the price low on signing a FA TE.

If Rodgers wants Tonyan back and I'm Gute I am looking at Rodgers in the eyes and saying "Fine, you go negotiate with him and his agent on a deal - come back and be prepared to take a straight pay cut to cover it."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Cross Engram off the list, the Jags just put the franchise tag on him.

I mean if you believe Adam Schefter that is.

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[Schultz]

IMO. You missed the real story. Cross JAX off of the TE need list. IMO.

 

[GleefulGary]

BUT some taller. It was massive for Kancey to come in and hit 6'1' as many worried he may barely hit six foot.

Was it that big of a deal that he measured 6’1 when he has short arms? I don’t think that many care about his height enough that 1” makes a “massive” difference. He has short arms and gets washed out in the run game frequently. He’s a pass rushing specialist, nothing more. Round 3 or so talent, imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

Spotrac Free Agent Tracker has a comprehensive list of TE's & on some have a breakdown of their "Market Value" for discussion sake.

- Mike Gesicki - $8.2Mil
- Dalton Schultz - $15.1Mil
- Evan Engram - $9.3mil
- Austin Hooper - $6.7Mil
- Hayden Hurst - $6.8Mil
- Robert Tonyan - $5Mil ( I believe towards beginning of '22 season was over $9Mil)
- Irv Smith - $10.2Mil

Might be worth signing Tonyan for another year to go with a couple of draftees (rounds 2 & 5?)?

I could see that. I think GB will keep at least 1 of Tonyan or Lewis. Then likely sign another one in earlier in the draft, such as before Day 3.

While Engram just got $11.3mil, imo I think they are a too high $$ on Schultz value above. He’s more similar to Tonyan in that he’s had 1 great year (2021) but His 10.1 yards per catch brought him back to earth in 2022. Dalton has good hands, but he’s very pedestrian after the catch. Dallas signed him to an $11mil contract for 2022, but Dalton slightly underperformed.
57/577 5TD 70% catch

 

[tynimiller]

Watched some CB tape.

Julius Brents CB Kansas State 6’4’ 202

Range and length (measured 33 7/8…WHICH IS INSANE) - two things God heaped on this cat (or should I say wildcat?)

He will flirt with a forty inch vertical and many envision a NFL switch to Safety depending on scheme and team…but it’s only because he can do everything and is just as comfortable in man to man on the boundary with no help or dropping into zone. Dude is special and like Banks below Day 2 grade for me easily and I like Brents I could easily see both skyrocketing up to early Day 2 type.

Deonte Banks CB Maryland 6’2’ 205lbs

This cat has not just the size but the length and is SWIFT footed to cover most WRs that can be thrown his way.

He is going to be showing up higher and higher on CB and draft boards now that the underclass man has declared for draft.

He is a rare lockdown corner that EXCELS at tackling. Depending on source it is claimed he never missed a tackle this year and some say last year too. Look for him to test VERY WELL and his age are both going to make him very high on GB’s board…not a massive need but adding him flexes maybe Rasul back to safety…maybe you even task Banks with safety switch…either way his measurables, RAS and age all indicate Packer type.

No joke when everyone else now is hopping on the wagons of these two - let the record show I was on them A LONG time ago

 

[GleefulGary]

No joke when everyone else now is hopping on the wagons of these two - let the record show I was on them A LONG time ago

Yeah, but I mean, what player haven’t you posted about loving?

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah, but I mean, what player haven’t you posted about loving?

LOL Actually I should share for the record a few guys I do not like especially early.

 

[tynimiller]

Fair critique arose about how I don't share my bad prospect or prospects I'm not a fan of either overall or by round:

Dawand Jones - I've went back and forth on this but I'm firmly in the camp of a guy of his build and his sluggish twitch and speed is one I simply cannot justify spending a first round on like many are saying. I'd also personally say I have numerous Tackle prospects I'd pick ahead of him personally (Paris, Skoronski, Jones, Duncan, Freeland to name a few). Yes he is a massive long - mountain of a man...hard no in first round and perhaps not even in second depending on what the tackles are like.

Quentin Johnston - I am not anti-Johnston, I'm just not in the high first round group on him like many and I personally would pick Addison, JSN, Hyatt and Flowers even before I'd pick him. Personally I just fail to see what many see...I like WRs that consistently put forth production across the board...Johnston had 64.3% of his yards in just four of his 13 games this year...and over 50% of his receptions in those same games....picking Johnston over many WRs would come down to for me if my coaches tell me yes, go get him, while he is a roller coaster - there are massively too many uncoachable traits there and we believe he is capable of being coached up.

Cody Mauch - Many have even went as far as to say he is flirting with first round...personally I am not in that group because to me he is only a year one starter for center, not guard. I think he gets overdrafted by someone. I wouldn't pick him till third, unless you have a luxury of multiple picks in the second and they're towards the end of it.

Nathaniel "Tank" Dell - He is on my Day 3 ONLY list just due to his massively tiny and atypically small frame. I just cannot use decent draft equity on a WR that is TINY. Dude is crazy athletic and is the definition of "playing bigger than their size".

Brian Branch - I fully admit I ignorantly judged him based on many other opinions all the way up until the week before the combine when I tried to watch a ton of film. I'll be honest, his play diagnosing and the teammates he had that just made him look amazing - he lacks the functional athleticism I fear is needed to be a first round safety prospect. His combine confirmed this and left me truly believing that there is no safety level first round prospect in this draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Brian Branch

I acutally like what I have seen of him. However, I totally get your "do other players make him look better than he is?" I have that fear with most players selected from one of the top 5 schools. Ohio State QB's are always over-rated in my opinion, the other 10 guys on offense usually are the reason they put up the amazing stats that they do. Now Fields and maybe Stroud might prove me wrong, but OSU notoriously has had a lot of promising QB's take a big dump at the next level.

Back to Branch. I wouldn't want him at #15, but if the Packers trade back to say late 20's, he might be a solid pick.

 

[tynimiller]

I acutally like what I have seen of him. However, I totally get your "do other players make him look better than he is?" I have that fear with most players selected from one of the top 5 schools. Ohio State QB's are always over-rated in my opinion, the other 10 guys on offense usually are the reason they put up the amazing stats that they do. Now Fields and maybe Stroud might prove me wrong, but OSU notoriously has had a lot of promising QB's take a big dump at the next level.

Back to Branch. I wouldn't want him at #15, but if the Packers trade back to say late 20's, he might be a solid pick.

If the luxury exists of building other picks with a trade back happens and we are around or close to thirty I would be skeptical but one hundred percent understand the pick.

 

[GleefulGary]

Fair critique arose about how I don't share my bad prospect or prospects I'm not a fan of either overall or by round:

Dawand Jones - I've went back and forth on this but I'm firmly in the camp of a guy of his build and his sluggish twitch and speed is one I simply cannot justify spending a first round on like many are saying. I'd also personally say I have numerous Tackle prospects I'd pick ahead of him personally (Paris, Skoronski, Jones, Duncan, Freeland to name a few). Yes he is a massive long - mountain of a man...hard no in first round and perhaps not even in second depending on what the tackles are like.

Quentin Johnston - I am not anti-Johnston, I'm just not in the high first round group on him like many and I personally would pick Addison, JSN, Hyatt and Flowers even before I'd pick him. Personally I just fail to see what many see...I like WRs that consistently put forth production across the board...Johnston had 64.3% of his yards in just four of his 13 games this year...and over 50% of his receptions in those same games....picking Johnston over many WRs would come down to for me if my coaches tell me yes, go get him, while he is a roller coaster - there are massively too many uncoachable traits there and we believe he is capable of being coached up.

Cody Mauch - Many have even went as far as to say he is flirting with first round...personally I am not in that group because to me he is only a year one starter for center, not guard. I think he gets overdrafted by someone. I wouldn't pick him till third, unless you have a luxury of multiple picks in the second and they're towards the end of it.

Nathaniel "Tank" Dell - He is on my Day 3 ONLY list just due to his massively tiny and atypically small frame. I just cannot use decent draft equity on a WR that is TINY. Dude is crazy athletic and is the definition of "playing bigger than their size".

Brian Branch - I fully admit I ignorantly judged him based on many other opinions all the way up until the week before the combine when I tried to watch a ton of film. I'll be honest, his play diagnosing and the teammates he had that just made him look amazing - he lacks the functional athleticism I fear is needed to be a first round safety prospect. His combine confirmed this and left me truly believing that there is no safety level first round prospect in this draft.

Lol I wasn’t criticizing. I’m just here to make jokes and take shots.

 

[tynimiller]

Lol I wasn’t criticizing. I’m just here to make jokes and take shots.

LOL No it isn't untrue though. I do 100% focus on likes or where I like guys, don't usually hear me speak ill or say nope.

Couple further ones..

I'm 100% out on Kayshon Boutte - dude has mentality issues and also is just not an athlete. I wouldn't touch him personally until Day 3 and at that 5th round or later.

Jalen Carter to me draws massive questions from a behavior and "what type of man" am I adding to my locker room. Interviews are something I don't get to have but while he may be a top 2 or 3 prospect this draft I would struggle with using first round equity on him unless I did a TON of digging and got to sit down with him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Back to Branch. I wouldn't want him at #15, but if the Packers trade back to say late 20's, he might be a solid pick.

Dantés put together a decent list with RAS scores and how it impacts players at different positions. According to his research safeties that score under 7.00 mostly have a hard time excelling at the pro level. With Branch scoring only 6.06 it might be best to stay away from him, especially in the first round.

 

[tynimiller]

LOL No it isn't untrue though. I do 100% focus on likes or where I like guys, don't usually hear me speak ill or say nope.

Couple further ones..

I'm 100% out on Kayshon Boutte - dude has mentality issues and also is just not an athlete. I wouldn't touch him personally until Day 3 and at that 5th round or later.

Jalen Carter to me draws massive questions from a behavior and "what type of man" am I adding to my locker room. Interviews are something I don't get to have but while he may be a top 2 or 3 prospect this draft I would struggle with using first round equity on him unless I did a TON of digging and got to sit down with him.

The Carter one added....dude showed up at Pro Day and failed the thing....proving to be a low character guy IMO time and time again...9 pounds heavier just since the combine. Cramping up and out of breath for drills. He has easily IMO gave up millions potentially.