2022 Draft #34 Christian Watson

[Mondio]

I think Capers got handed some raw deals too. He had his faults, don't get me wrong, but many times i the big games we were playing good teams with nobodies on defense. Still remember a 1 legged Andy Malumba being our best linebacker on the field in on playoff game. Lots of inopportune injuries, lots of money tied up into players that didn't perform etc on that side of the ball. Seemed to happen every year.

I put Barry squarely into the "doing less with more" category. The defensive roster has players, and enough playmaking talent to be a very good defense. one a team should be able to rely upon to win games for you on a fairly consistent basis.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'd like to blame the problems with the defense strictly on the coaches, but I can't. It's as much of a personnel and money problem, as it is coaching. We have way too much money tied up in a handful of players. There's not enough cap room to look at FAs out there that are one or two steps above what we have in some starting positions, and to improve depth.

You don't make Beef Wellington with ground beef.

Good point. One reason KC is good year after year is that they manage their cap well and keep a well-balanced team. It also helps that Mahomes is enough of a team player not to throw a hissy fit and demand to be the highest paid QB, even though he deserves it. Yeah he makes $45 mil/year, not chump change. But Rodgers is ahead of him, and soon Burrow, Hurts, Herbert and others will be pulling in $50 mil plus. I guess Mahomes is more interested in Lombardi trophies.

 

[gopkrs]

Good point. One reason KC is good year after year is that they manage their cap well and keep a well-balanced team. It also helps that Mahomes is enough of a team player not to throw a hissy fit and demand to be the highest paid QB, even though he deserves it. Yeah he makes $45 mil/year, not chump change. But Rodgers is ahead of him, and soon Burrow, Hurts, Herbert and others will be pulling in $50 mil plus. I guess Mahomes is more interested in Lombardi trophies.

If I remember correctly KC decided Mahomes was their man and gave him a really long contract for a lot of money. He was satisfied and so will KC be if doesn't get hurt.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If I remember correctly KC decided Mahomes was their man and gave him a really long contract for a lot of money. He was satisfied and so will KC be if doesn't get hurt.

It's a 10 year deal worth $45 mil/year. In 5 years, franchise QBs will be making $60 to $70 mil/year. Mahomes will no doubt get another deal, but he seems willing to play for less in order to play for championships. More than we can say about Rodgers.

 

[Mondio]

It's a 10 year deal worth $45 mil/year. In 5 years, franchise QBs will be making $60 to $70 mil/year. Mahomes will no doubt get another deal, but he seems willing to play for less in order to play for championships. More than we can say about Rodgers.

It's not really comparing apples to apples though. Mahomes is young and they put it out a decade. He will be restructured or new contract in 2 years probably, 3 tops IMO. Rodgers is at the end of a career the numbers are altered by lengths of contracts at this point. In reality, Mahomes is taking home a lot of cash, and will be taking home a lot more in the next 1-3 years that will play with that average considerably i think.

I mean they gave him 140+ million guaranteed and were able to move the numbers around over a decade. The reality will be much more is likely to be added in the next 1-3 years and essentially he'll have made that 140 million+ in about a 5 year span and be given more. Considerably more as long as the catastrophic doesn't happen.

The Chiefs are fortunate he's young and they're able to really stretch things to play with numbers. If he stays healthy all will probably be just fine. He's fun to watch. But he's not playing for less.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's a 10 year deal worth $45 mil/year. In 5 years, franchise QBs will be making $60 to $70 mil/year. Mahomes will no doubt get another deal, but he seems willing to play for less in order to play for championships. More than we can say about Rodgers.

Crazy, just crazy. For S&G's I looked up Favres final contract with the Queens. 2 year, $12.5M a year. Today, that would barely buy you a 6 pack at the game and a marginal WR.

 

[Schultz]

It's a 10 year deal worth $45 mil/year. In 5 years, franchise QBs will be making $60 to $70 mil/year. Mahomes will no doubt get another deal, but he seems willing to play for less in order to play for championships. More than we can say about Rodgers.

I am guessing these are your opinions in less you know Mahomes personally. For discussions sake my opinion is that Mahomes next contract he will want to be paid as much as possible and that KC will give it to him as a lot of teams do for their FHOF players. As far as the 60-70 mill for QBs that is quite a wide range you have given there. Though if forced to make a wager IMO it would be the under.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am guessing these are your opinions in less you know Mahomes personally. For discussions sake my opinion is that Mahomes next contract he will want to be paid as much as possible and that KC will give it to him as a lot of teams do for their FHOF players. As far as the 60-70 mill for QBs that is quite a wide range you have given there. Though if forced to make a wager IMO it would be the under.

Take the under on QBs making $60 to $70 mil/year in 5 years. And I imagine the caps will be $350 to $400 mil. Who knows?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'd like to blame the problems with the defense strictly on the coaches, but I can't. It's as much of a personnel and money problem, as it is coaching. We have way too much money tied up in a handful of players. There's not enough cap room to look at FAs out there that are one or two steps above what we have in some starting positions, and to improve depth.

The Packers have a ton of first round talent on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion coaching is the main reason they didn't performed up to expectations last season.

Good point. One reason KC is good year after year is that they manage their cap well and keep a well-balanced team. It also helps that Mahomes is enough of a team player not to throw a hissy fit and demand to be the highest paid QB, even though he deserves it. Yeah he makes $45 mil/year, not chump change. But Rodgers is ahead of him, and soon Burrow, Hurts, Herbert and others will be pulling in $50 mil plus. I guess Mahomes is more interested in Lombardi trophies.

Mahomes was the highest paid player in the league at the time he signed his extension. I guess it won't be long until his deal will be renegotiated and he ends up being on top of that list once again.

 

[Voyageur]

The Packers have a ton of first round talent on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion coaching is the main reason they didn't performed up to expectations last season.



Mahomes was the highest paid player in the league at the time he signed his extension. I guess it won't be long until his deal will be renegotiated and he ends up being on top of that list once again.

First round picks has nothing to do with how well a player develops.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

First round picks has nothing to do with how well a player develops.

Unless it is the player that the Packers would have picked instead of Love! THAT player would have been a Pro Bowler and led the Packers to 3 straight Super Bowl wins.

Seriously though.

The higher the pick, statistically speaking, the better chance the player pans out in the NFL. That is not a guarantee by any means that a 1st round pick will out perform a second round pick and so on. Also, it doesn't mean that a first round pick that barely out performs a 6th round pick was better value, actually probably just the opposite.

 

[Voyageur]

As I look back over the years, I see so many cases of players who should have been drafted before the pick the Packers made, and it makes me wonder what was on their minds when they made that pick.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As I look back over the years, I see so many cases of players who should have been drafted before the pick the Packers made, and it makes me wonder what was on their minds when they made that pick.

Generally speaking, I think that happens with all teams, most of us are just more in tune with when it happens to the Packers. That said, I can honestly say that I have scratched my head more than just once on draft night, scrambling to find info. on a guy the Packers just selected.

 

[tynimiller]

Generally speaking, I think that happens with all teams, most of us are just more in tune with when it happens to the Packers. That said, I can honestly say that I have scratched my head more than just once on draft night, scrambling to find info. on a guy the Packers just selected.

As I look back over the years, I see so many cases of players who should have been drafted before the pick the Packers made, and it makes me wonder what was on their minds when they made that pick.

Poker is right for most, this is very common due to just how everyone is more in tune with their team, and this is only intensified as time allows hindsight to sink in too.

I'll be honest since about 2016 or so when I truly started becoming addicted with research and prospect studying to a level I truly think I have a problem since I don't get paid for it LOL...I've not had a single pick yet where I was caught off guard by a guy before say late round flyers on day 3 - for sure have had a few times I was like whoa wait a second that was too early for that guy or wow cannot believe he last this long.

 

[Magooch]

Good point. One reason KC is good year after year is that they manage their cap well and keep a well-balanced team. It also helps that Mahomes is enough of a team player not to throw a hissy fit and demand to be the highest paid QB, even though he deserves it. Yeah he makes $45 mil/year, not chump change. But Rodgers is ahead of him, and soon Burrow, Hurts, Herbert and others will be pulling in $50 mil plus. I guess Mahomes is more interested in Lombardi trophies.

Worth mentioning their cap hits too, however.

2022 - Mahomes 35.8m (2nd), Rodgers 28.5m (6th)
2023 - Mahomes 49.3m (2nd), Rodgers 31.6m (11th)
2024 - Mahomes 44.3m (6th), Rodgers 40.7m (8th)

It's not until 2025 that Rodgers (59.3m, 1st) would be ahead of Mahomes (46.3m, 6th) but I don't think Rodgers playing on that contract for us (or anyone else) in 2025 is really remotely realistic, while Mahomes will likely be making every bit as much if not more.

So I don't know. I'm not entirely convinced that Mahomes "taking less" is the reason for the Chiefs' successes, just like I am not convinced that Rodgers "taking more" is the reason for our (relative) failings.

 

[Heyjoe4]

First round picks has nothing to do with how well a player develops.

Very true. Savage is proof of that. And they have virtually no chance to develop with a no-talent DC like Barry. After so many years spending first and second round picks on D, it would be nice if they could match that talent with top-notch coaching talent.

The league seems to be going younger and younger at HC and coordinator positions. I don't mean that older guys are obsolete (see Reid, Andy), but the younger guys bring new ideas to a quickly evolving league. I think the young guys just adapt better and certainly can relate better to players.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Very true. Savage is proof of that. And they have virtually no chance to develop with a no-talent DC like Barry. After so many years spending first and second round picks on D, it would be nice if they could match that talent with top-notch coaching talent.

The league seems to be going younger and younger at HC and coordinator positions. I don't mean that older guys are obsolete (see Reid, Andy), but the younger guys bring new ideas to a quickly evolving league. I think the young guys just adapt better and certainly can relate better to players.

I think it is easy to blame things on coaching, but I would look hard and long at scouting too. Many wanted to blame coaching for all the 1st and 2nd round DB's that failed in GB. When in reality, they just weren't players that deserved that high of a drafting grade or they didn't belong in your particular system. Scouting and drafting is no exact science, sometimes you draft a young person, who suddenly gets a ton of money and whether it is that and/or lack of talent/discipline, they don't make it in the NFL. Nothing new to the Packers and nothing new to all teams. I like to "blame" coaching or management, when a player moves on from Green Bay and blossoms in a new environment. But then again, maybe that was just the wake-up call that the player needed to realize that they were running out of opportunities.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think it is easy to blame things on coaching, but I would look hard and long at scouting too. Many wanted to blame coaching for all the 1st and 2nd round DB's that failed in GB. When in reality, they just weren't players that deserved that high of a drafting grade or they didn't belong in your particular system. Scouting and drafting is no exact science, sometimes you draft a young person, who suddenly gets a ton of money and whether it is that and/or lack of talent/discipline, they don't make it in the NFL. Nothing new to the Packers and nothing new to all teams. I like to "blame" coaching or management, when a player moves on from Green Bay and blossoms in a new environment. But then again, maybe that was just the wake-up call that the player needed to realize that they were running out of opportunities.

It bugged me when Micah Hyde went to the Bills and Casey Hayward went to the Chargers. Both guys had great careers outside GB. In Hyde's case, I seem to recall he was not playing his best position in GB. I think he ended up playing S in Buffalo, and very well. I think GB knew Hayward was good, and just didn't want to pay him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

First round picks has nothing to do with how well a player develops.

While that's true I expect a defensive coordinator to put up better results while being given as much capital to work with as Barry. Otherwise he should be replaced with someone else. If that doesn't work the general manager and his scouting staff needs to be questioned.

It bugged me when Micah Hyde went to the Bills and Casey Hayward went to the Chargers. Both guys had great careers outside GB. In Hyde's case, I seem to recall he was not playing his best position in GB. I think he ended up playing S in Buffalo, and very well. I think GB knew Hayward was good, and just didn't want to pay him.

The Packers made the right decision to let both Hayward and Hyde walk away in free agency at the time the moves had to be made. In hindsight it was a mistake though.

 

[tynimiller]

Well still plenty of season left, but it is looking vastly more than likely after this year Watson is at a MASSIVE crossroads career wise.

This year, Watson feels more like just a bigger body version of MVS rather than perhaps a poor man's DK Metcalf type guy we all thought he might be based on his rookie year.

Part of me is strongly considering Watson could be the most lethal WR he can be when he is NOT the WR1 but the WR2 on a team. Time will tell, his rookie production was at a rate which was INSANE, but his third year I feel is going to be the decider, as of course this second season there are struggles all over and not just by him.

 

[tynimiller]

I'll go as far to say, depending on the staff interprets his play I think there might be more likely for him to be nervous about what Gute does in the first round than that of Jordan Love. Malik Nabers, Keon Coleman, Marvin Harrison Jr....all instantly IMO make Watson a much smaller piece on this roster, until his route running and aggressiveness to attack the ball changes.

 

[Magooch]

I was thinking a bit about Watson and just our WR “hierarchy” in general. Going into the season it seemed Watson and Doubs were the clear top two (and probably still are on paper). But with the way things have been going you could probably make a case that Reed and Wicks are our top two at the moment

As for Watson I’m just kind of growing tired. He has shown flashes but not much more. He’s fast but doesn’t show much else. decently big build, but plays a lot smaller. With his measurables you’d think he’d be a guy to win 50-50 balls, one where you can throw up a jump ball and half expect him to come down with it. But he gets outmuscled and /or out-efforted a lot it seems. At the moment it kinda feels like he’s just out there cuz he’s fast enough to keep defenses honest lol

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well still plenty of season left, but it is looking vastly more than likely after this year Watson is at a MASSIVE crossroads career wise.

This year, Watson feels more like just a bigger body version of MVS rather than perhaps a poor man's DK Metcalf type guy we all thought he might be based on his rookie year.

Part of me is strongly considering Watson could be the most lethal WR he can be when he is NOT the WR1 but the WR2 on a team. Time will tell, his rookie production was at a rate which was INSANE, but his third year I feel is going to be the decider, as of course this second season there are struggles all over and not just by him.

Yeah he's closer to MVS, and I'd argue MVS was better - he had a limited route tree but he ran it well and eventually became better at catching.

Watson has no apparent route tree other than a long go route and the occasional jet sweep. His footwork is non-existent and he doesn't run many of the routes expected for even a #2 WR. Reed is easily outplaying him, and Wicks isn't far behind.

Just based on the production I think I've seen, I'd rank the WRs as Doubs first, Reed second, Wicks third and Watson fourth. Musgrave gets an incomplete grade, but even he has improved his route running from week 1.

It took Adams three years before he realized how important footwork and release from the LOS are. I'm fine giving Watson another year if just for his speed and height. But if he doesn't develop more routes, improve his ability to separate on short routes, and learn to high point passes - he'll be a poor man's MVS and likely WR #4.

Doubs looks like the real thing and is getting better. Reed and Wicks have been pleasant surprises as rookies. If Love sticks around for 2025, Gluten has to add some veteran WR talent IMO.

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah he's closer to MVS, and I'd argue MVS was better - he had a limited route tree but he ran it well and eventually became better at catching.

Watson has no apparent out tree other than a long go route and the occasional jet sweep. His footwork is non-existent and he doesn't run many of the routes expected for even a #2 WR. Reed is easily outplaying him, and Wicks isn't far behind.

Just based on the production I think I've seen, I'd rank the WRs as Doubs first, Reed second, Wicks third and Watson fourth. Musgrave gets an incomplete grade, but even he has improved his route running from week 1.

It took Adams three years before he realized how important footwork and release from the LOS are. I'm fine giving Watson another year if just for his speed. But if he doesn't develop more routes and improve his ability to separate on short routes, he'll be a poor man's MVS and likely WR #4.

Doubs looks like the real thing and is getting better. Reed and Wicks have been pleasant surprises as rookies. If Love sticks around for 2025, Gluten has to add some veteran WR talent IMO.

The sad thing is I don't see at this time any pure WR1 material. Now I do think Doubs continues to work towards being one, and Reed can easily become a moving/slot stud for sure but I have never liked offenses where that type is #1.

The crazy thing is once it clicks, IF it clicks for Watson dude will be INSANE....or he will slowly become like Claypool, but it will take longer because he is NOT A CALLOUS of a teammate like Claypool.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I was thinking a bit about Watson and just our WR “hierarchy” in general. Going into the season it seemed Watson and Doubs were the clear top two (and probably still are on paper). But with the way things have been going you could probably make a case that Reed and Wicks are our top two at the moment

As for Watson I’m just kind of growing tired. He has shown flashes but not much more. He’s fast but doesn’t show much else. decently big build, but plays a lot smaller. With his measurables you’d think he’d be a guy to win 50-50 balls, one where you can throw up a jump ball and half expect him to come down with it. But he gets outmuscled and /or out-efforted a lot it seems. At the moment it kinda feels like he’s just out there cuz he’s fast enough to keep defenses honest lol

Can't argue with your assessment. Doubs continues to improve but damn Reed is having an impressive rookie year, and Wicks shows a lot of promise.

And maybe you hit on something. Watson seems intimidated by DBs. He's faster and taller than any corner he'll face, but he hasn't learned to fight for the ball. He's not an aggressive player. In fairness, Love has thrown some lousy passes his way. Even so, it's looking like last year was a fluke. Too bad.