2020 Offseason

Heyjoe4

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You said Crosby had declining skills, you said Crosby's life gets in his way. all i was saying was that Crosby had an almost perfect season, despite his home issues, give him the credit he deserves there
Well said. Seems every year there are calls for Crosby’s head. First of all, that’s misplaced, especially after the year and personal tribulations of last year and he responds with one of his best years. Second is - replace him with who? See how well that worked for the Bears? Anyway I get tired of the constant criticism of Crosby. Is he Justin Tucker? No, no one else is. Does he get the job done for GB? In most cases my answer would be yes. Finally, kicking in GB for half the season is gonna take a toll on career numbers.

Geez we need a solid draft (for a change), an ILB, TE, WR, OT and a run stopper or two. Point is, there are bigger things for Gluten to focus on than K and I’m glad he got Crosby squared away quickly. Plus, the guy deserved it.
 

Heyjoe4

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Thomas Dimitroff just said at the combine that the Falcons will let Austin Hooper test the market. There's my preferred free agent target on offense.
He’s your number one FA TE Cap? Why so? I don’t have a horse in the race yet. Well, I’m still mad TT let Jared Cook walk for $3 mil, but that’s old news......
 

Heyjoe4

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I agree that there's no reason to consider the 2018 draft class as an utter disaster by any means. While the first round pick acquired in the trade with the Saints should be considered when evaluating it I prefer to consider Savage part of the 2019 group, especially as it took another move by Gutekunst to select him.
Yeah it takes 3 years to properly evaluate a draft class. Remember Davante Adams first two years? He had to mature, and that’s true for a lot of these guys who are in their early 20s. Good coaching helps a lot.
 

tynimiller

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Thomas Dimitroff just said at the combine that the Falcons will let Austin Hooper test the market. There's my preferred free agent target on offense.

What is your speculated take on expected price tag? You think he'll touch $10 Million? $8?
 

gbgary

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i don't think they'll do anything in FA on TE as far as an impact starter goes. too expensive. i think they think they are ok there. they need the cap space for the bigger fish they have to fry. they may draft one. i think they'll be focusing on ILB. but that's just me. it's very early in the process and things change quickly.
 

Heyjoe4

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i don't think they'll do anything in FA on TE as far as an impact starter goes. too expensive. i think they think they are ok there. they need the cap space for the bigger fish they have to fry. they may draft one. i think they'll be focusing on ILB. but that's just me. it's very early in the process and things change quickly.
Maybe this is the year to see if Sternberger makes a year two jump, although he had limited opportunities last year. GB has been bitten in the FA TE market, so they may sit it out.

And as you say, there are greater needs. Other than WR, they desperately need a sideline-to-sideline ILB who can tackle guys BEHIND the LOS, with all due respect to Martinez.
 

scotscheese

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Well said. Seems every year there are calls for Crosby’s head. First of all, that’s misplaced, especially after the year and personal tribulations of last year and he responds with one of his best years. Second is - replace him with who? See how well that worked for the Bears? Anyway I get tired of the constant criticism of Crosby. Is he Justin Tucker? No, no one else is. Does he get the job done for GB? In most cases my answer would be yes. Finally, kicking in GB for half the season is gonna take a toll on career numbers.
.
And yet Ricflair just ignored me because he knows he's wrong
 
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he wasn't deemed not good enough. he was deemed too expensive. it was a cap move. cap wise it worked out well.

No, the Packers spent a huge amount of cap space on outside linebackers but deemed Matthews not good enough to be a starter moving forward.

I'm a little bit torn on him.

He's a better quality player at his position than most of the wide receivers that will be on the market.

At the same time, he's a solid starting TE who will almost certainly reset the TE market in terms of annual salary.

Is Hooper a good investment of 11M/season? I'm not sold. He's an OK blocker and a reliable receiver, but he really doesn't differentiate himself in either category. He's not a big value added to the running game, and he isn't really a playmaker in the receiving game.

I like that he's gone through his development, as TE's usually take time to blossom. However, I don't love his 3rd down performance. He was targeted 18 times on 3rd down in 2019 and only converted 9 times. 50% isn't a great success rate. It's an ongoing trend too-- he was targeted 22 times on 3rd downs in 2018 and converted 9 times.

I think I lean no, but I understand why some people would say yes.

I don't think that solely taking a look at Hooper's numbers on third down is a smart way to evaluate his production. Overall he ranks fourth in receptions and fifth in yards and has the second highest catch rate among the top 40 at the position over the past two seasons.

Considering it takes most rookies several seasons to have an impact at the position I would be excited if the Packers can make a deal for him this offseason.

Well said. Seems every year there are calls for Crosby’s head. First of all, that’s misplaced, especially after the year and personal tribulations of last year and he responds with one of his best years. Second is - replace him with who? See how well that worked for the Bears? Anyway I get tired of the constant criticism of Crosby. Is he Justin Tucker? No, no one else is. Does he get the job done for GB? In most cases my answer would be yes. Finally, kicking in GB for half the season is gonna take a toll on career numbers.

The Packers once again overpaid for Crosby based on his field goal percentage last season while ignoring that he attempted a total of only six goals from 45 or more yards in 2019. I have posted several times that him kicking in Lambeau has nothing to do with other having a higher career percentage as opposing kickers, who aren't using to kicking in Green Bay, have a higher combined percentage at the stadium than him.

He’s your number one FA TE Cap?

Yes, as I don't expect Henry to make it to free agency.

i don't think they'll do anything in FA on TE as far as an impact starter goes. too expensive. i think they think they are ok there.

In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to rely on Sternberger and Tonyan to get the job done next season.
 

Dantés

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I don't think that solely taking a look at Hooper's numbers on third down is a smart way to evaluate his production. Overall he ranks fourth in receptions and fifth in yards and has the second highest catch rate among the top 40 at the position over the past two seasons.

Well that wasn't my way of evaluating his total production. It was my way of evaluating his production on... 3rd downs.

The Packers were lacking in the 3rd down conversion department last year, as well as in the ability to gain yards after catch. Those are the skill sets I find most relevant in any potential free agents.
 
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Yeah it takes 3 years to properly evaluate a draft class. Remember Davante Adams first two years? He had to mature, and that’s true for a lot of these guys who are in their early 20s. Good coaching helps a lot.
Adams played through a bum ankle in year 2, kind of a liability for a guy who's key feature is suddenness. I'm not sure who you are talking about here, but if a guy is healthy and does not show progress over his first two season gaining more snaps, he is in all likelyhood stalled out at a low ceiling.
 

Dantés

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Giants just released ILB Alec Ogletree. I know only a bit about him. Thoughts?

Splash plays hide horrible consistency with Ogletree. He misses a ton of tackles and blows a lot of coverage assignments. I think the Packers can do a lot better.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Splash plays hide horrible consistency with Ogletree. He misses a ton of tackles and blows a lot of coverage assignments. I think the Packers can do a lot better.

Thanks. Obviously, a sign of the times and current state of the Packers, whenever any ILB hits the market, my ears perk up. Reminds me of a few years ago with CB's.
 

Heyjoe4

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Adams played through a bum ankle in year 2, kind of a liability for a guy who's key feature is suddenness. I'm not sure who you are talking about here, but if a guy is healthy and does not show progress over his first two season gaining more snaps, he is in all likelyhood stalled out at a low ceiling.
I didn’t know about Adams’s bad ankle, or had just forgotten, so thanks. And overall I do agree, two years tells a lot. Josh Jackson case in point. I don’t have any faith he’s gonna have a third year leap, if there is such a thing. And I don’t think injury is an excuse in his case.
 

Heyjoe4

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And yet Ricflair just ignored me because he knows he's wrong
There are all kinds of stats people can use to prove or disprove any point. I guess I don’t have time for that and/or I’m not on here solely for pointing out where other’s are wrong. So I’ll say I just like Crosby, completely subjective. He’s been a valuable kicker, and other than the debacle in Detroit, I don’t remember being mad at him for costing GB a game (although I’m sure that’s happened to him all kickers at some point). And again what’s the alternative? They tried last year with Ficken. Reliable kickers are not easy to find.
 
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Well that wasn't my way of evaluating his total production. It was my way of evaluating his production on... 3rd downs.

The Packers were lacking in the 3rd down conversion department last year, as well as in the ability to gain yards after catch. Those are the skill sets I find most relevant in any potential free agents.

Well, let me put it this way then. Solely taking a look at Hooper's production on third down doesn't offer a fair evaluation of his overall production.

So I’ll say I just like Crosby, completely subjective. He’s been a valuable kicker, and other than the debacle in Detroit, I don’t remember being mad at him for costing GB a game (although I’m sure that’s happened to him all kickers at some point). And again what’s the alternative? They tried last year with Ficken. Reliable kickers are not easy to find.

The Packers tried to make fans believe they brought in real competition for Crosby by having Ficken in camp. Actually he was never given a chance to win the job though.
 

Mondio

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i don't think Ficken actually came close to earning a chance to win the job either.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The Packers tried to make fans believe they brought in real competition for Crosby by having Ficken in camp. Actually he was never given a chance to win the job though.

Considering how "well" Ficken did for the Jets last year 19 of 27 (70.4%) on FG's and 23 of 26 on XP's (88.5%), I think the Packers absolutely made the right decision, no matter how you perceived Ficken's shot at earning the job. Considering how close several of the Packers games were, who knows what our final record would have been with Fricken Ficken doing the kicken!
 
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Considering how "well" Ficken did for the Jets last year 19 of 27 (70.4%) on FG's and 23 of 26 on XP's (88.5%), I think the Packers absolutely made the right decision, no matter how you perceived Ficken's shot at earning the job. Considering how close several of the Packers games were, who knows what our final record would have been with Fricken Ficken doing the kicken!

First of all I agree that it was the correct decision by the Packers to keep Crosby over Ficken. Taking a look at the numbers from 2019 you might want to consider that the Jets put Ficken (average of 42.8 yards per attempt) in way tougher situations than the Packers did with Crosby (37.2).
 

Pokerbrat2000

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First of all I agree that it was the correct decision by the Packers to keep Crosby over Ficken. Taking a look at the numbers from 2019 you might want to consider that the Jets put Ficken (average of 42.8 yards per attempt) in way tougher situations than the Packers did with Crosby (37.2).

;) Glad to hear you finally agree on Crosby. :D

Yeah, I will take a guy that kicked at 91.7% over a guy that kicked 70.4% one year and 33.3% his previous year, despite that 5 yard difference in kicks.

As far as "putting Ficken in way tougher positions" are you only looking at the 5 yard average as your defining point or are you also taking into consideration when those kicks were made? Were they made to win a game, with the score tight? Basically, what kind of pressure was their on the kicker to make them? I didn't follow the Jets, so I don't know. I do know Crosby continued to make clutch kicks and for a fact, one of his 2 total misses was near the end of a game, when it didn't matter.

I think this is why Crosby has stuck so long with the Packers. People can pull up stats of missed kicks or length of kicks, but for the most part, Crosby has been pretty good in the clutch for the Packers.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Well, I’m still mad TT let Jared Cook walk for $3 mil, but that’s old news......

It wasn't $3 M, it was $15M over 2 years, with $8M guaranteed that Cook signed for with the Raiders.

As much as I wish they had kept Cook, even at that $ amount, I think most Packer fans felt that at the time, Mo Bennett and Lance Kendricks were an upgrade over Cook. Turns out the Packers and those of us who thought it, were wrong.
 

tynimiller

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It wasn't $3 M, it was $15M over 2 years, with $8M guaranteed that Cook signed for with the Raiders.

As much as I wish they had kept Cook, even at that $ amount, I think most Packer fans felt that at the time, Mo Bennett and Lance Kendricks were an upgrade over Cook. Turns out the Packers and those of us who thought it, were wrong.

I never imagined Mo and Lance combo would end up failing in comparison to Jared. NEVER expected it to go how it did.
 

Dantés

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Well, let me put it this way then. Solely taking a look at Hooper's production on third down doesn't offer a fair evaluation of his overall production.



The Packers tried to make fans believe they brought in real competition for Crosby by having Ficken in camp. Actually he was never given a chance to win the job though.

And let me put it this way-- solely taking a look at Hooper's production on third doesn't isn't meant to be an evaluation of his overall production. It's an evaluation of his production on... wait for it... 3rd down.

But that should be considered, but 3rd down conversions are a big need in the pass catching corps.
 
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