2020 Offseason

[tynimiller]

I was Happy to see Mike shakedown the Lions organization for $9.1M last year, but as Mondio said, he isn't worth much more than Vet Min. and some playing incentives. Packers need to speed up the defensive line, not slow it down. I hope they don't have to look for old castoffs just to plug holes.

Don't get me wrong I think this is a call only made post-draft depending how it all shakes out. I agree 100% he is nothing more than depth and plug at this point.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Thoughts....Mike Daniels brought back on a cheap deal as a depth and support guy. I could see this as a much lesser degree type re-signing Tramon type situation. If Daniels is wanting starter money I don't think ANY team is gonna do it, he is past that. But as a depth signing....thoughts? I'm mixed on it...but someone asked me the other day and I really wasn't sure of what I feel his value is anymore..but not entirely against it either.

While signing Tramon worked out well most of the time it doesn't make sense to bring back a player that was deemed not good enough for whatever reason at some point.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

I'm a fan of drinking...but clearly I'm not on your level.

Because only alcoholics can what use their brain and come up with an issue ASIDE from deteriorating skills to explain poor play? Maybe apply your Crosby logic to Rodgers. Also, I'm straight edge, so nice attempt at defaming my character.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

You mean like this year when his wife and sister-in-law got cancer, his sister-in-law died, and he only missed 2 FG's? That what you mean?

I thought the wife getting cancer was 2017 or 2018?

 

[mradtke66]

Thoughts....Mike Daniels brought back on a cheap deal as a depth and support guy.

The problem with Big Mike is he's a better pass rusher than run defender. We have a pretty good pass rushing front with Clark, Z-Smith, and P-Smith.

If we're going to sign a cheap, old guy, I'd rather get a 2-down NT to spell Clark.

 

[tynimiller]

Because only alcoholics can what use their brain and come up with an issue ASIDE from deteriorating skills to explain poor play? Maybe apply your Crosby logic to Rodgers. Also, I'm straight edge, so nice attempt at defaming my character.

LOL you tried saying Crosby isn't mentally tough after easily the hardest personal/family issue season any Packer of recent memory has been through and had an AMAZING year. So you weren't drinking...than I guess you just didn't watch the season.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yup, Kittle will get somewhere in the $13-15M per range and that will just escalate all the other Free Agent TE contracts. Which is why I said that I hope the 49'ers do it AFTER free agency is done.
Hell, it won't be long before Jimmy Grahams $10M per will look like a bargain!

Jimmy made $22,371 per yard gained in 2019.
Let’s hope THAT’s not the new gold standard! That’s be like paying $2,356 per square foot to purchase an old, poor efficiency home. Brrrr. It’s gonna be a cold Winter.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

LOL you tried saying Crosby isn't mentally tough after easily the hardest personal/family issue season any Packer of recent memory has been through and had an AMAZING year. So you weren't drinking...than I guess you just didn't watch the season.

"LOL" try flippin' cheeseburgers at your after school job while worrying about a dying family member. "LOL" try doing your cheeseburger flipping after school job while worrying about how your significant other is handling a family member's illness. "LOL" try flipping those burgers and asking 'do you want fries with that' worrying about you significant other having cancer. If you can work your McDonald's job up to your usual performance in those situations, without customers knowing you aren't up to par, THEN, and only then you might some day once you've graduated from high school and gotten a real job and go through those situations again, you MIGHT at THAT point get a say on anything about Mason Crosby. This isn't a mental toughness thing. This is someone who has had to work a job much less stressful than professional athlete while my father was actively dying of leukemia. I've been in a situation that Crosby finds himself in, you obviously haven't and have a perfect life. I hope you are enjoying it and not taking it for granted.

 

[tynimiller]

"LOL" try flippin' cheeseburgers at your after school job while worrying about a dying family member. "LOL" try doing your cheeseburger flipping after school job while worrying about how your significant other is handling a family member's illness. "LOL" try flipping those burgers and asking 'do you want fries with that' worrying about you significant other having cancer. If you can work your McDonald's job up to your usual performance in those situations, without customers knowing you aren't up to par, THEN, and only then you might some day once you've graduated from high school and gotten a real job and go through those situations again, you MIGHT at THAT point get a say on anything about Mason Crosby. This isn't a mental toughness thing. This is someone who has had to work a job much less stressful than professional athlete while my father was actively dying of leukemia. I've been in a situation that Crosby finds himself in, you obviously haven't and have a perfect life. I hope you are enjoying it and not taking it for granted.

What in the world?? Dude, I made a joke in response to the fact that you claimed the following:

2 small issues with your thread...1.) I think Crosby's personal life gets in the way of his performance, and sometimes his performance snowballs. This might be a sports psychology issue more than ability, if so he's better than every guy you named. If not, then I would agree with you.

Which is utter crazy talk given the personal and family issues his life saw this past season and yet delivered arguably one of if not his best seasons of his career...

Oh and not a perfect life at all here, but my personal life and your personal life were not a topic of discussion. For what its worth that's terrible losing a parent let alone from leukemia (have lost relatives, not parents to this). Wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.

 

[scotscheese]

Because only alcoholics can what use their brain and come up with an issue ASIDE from deteriorating skills to explain poor play? Maybe apply your Crosby logic to Rodgers. Also, I'm straight edge, so nice attempt at defaming my character.

I thought the wife getting cancer was 2017 or 2018?

Crosby hit over 90% on FG, and 95% on PAT, how are these deteriorating skills, stating that Crosby was poor is just way off the mark. add in the family issues, then you have to give the guy some respect for keeping his head and standards so well this season.

feel free to s*** on a player when they don't play to their expected standard, but at least give them props when they play well

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Crosby hit over 90% on FG, and 95% on PAT, how are these deteriorating skills, stating that Crosby was poor is just way off the mark. add in the family issues, then you have to give the guy some respect for keeping his head and standards so well this season.

feel free to s*** on a player when they don't play to their expected standard, but at least give them props when they play well

tynimiller made these statements not me. I attempted to back him off of them.

 

[scotscheese]

tynimiller made these statements not me. I attempted to back him off of them.

2 small issues with your thread...1.) I think Crosby's personal life gets in the way of his performance, and sometimes his performance snowballs. This might be a sports psychology issue more than ability, if so he's better than every guy you named. If not, then I would agree with you. 2.) Lucas Patrick can NOT replace Bulaga, though I love the idea of Bulaga not comin' back.

Because only alcoholics can what use their brain and come up with an issue ASIDE from deteriorating skills to explain poor play? Maybe apply your Crosby logic to Rodgers. Also, I'm straight edge, so nice attempt at defaming my character.

You said Crosby had declining skills, you said Crosby's life gets in his way. all i was saying was that Crosby had an almost perfect season, despite his home issues, give him the credit he deserves there

 

[tynimiller]

tynimiller made these statements not me. I attempted to back him off of them.

LOL....um...nope, I did not make those statements. They are direct quotes of your comments.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Crosby hit over 90% on FG, and 95% on PAT, how are these deteriorating skills, stating that Crosby was poor is just way off the mark. add in the family issues, then you have to give the guy some respect for keeping his head and standards so well this season.

feel free to s*** on a player when they don't play to their expected standard, but at least give them props when they play well

It seems like every year the number of commenters calling for Crosby’s head increases. How is that possible after last season, and that he kicks half the season at Lambeau? I don’t get it. I like the guy, and you won’t find too many other players as loyal to the team and community.

 

[adambr2]

Gute needs a solid draft. His debut draft class of 2018 is looking like an utter disaster.

 

[tynimiller]

Gute needs a solid draft. His debut draft class of 2018 is looking like an utter disaster.

While the 2018 draft from top to bottom did not meet what someone would hope for, calling a draft which gave you perhaps the best young CB this team has had since McKenzie is saying something.

Jaire (1st round) is the clear and away best player that year, and is I'd bet going to be looked at as being one of the best draftees over the last decade for us.

Past him though, there sure are a decent number of "projects" and perhaps "failed experiments", but mostly you have 'too early to tell' type guys.

The class still has a year or so to truly prove how it pans out with guys like Burks (3rd round) and Jackson (2nd round) kinda in a season now where it better click or they're failures.

ESB (6th round) was delivering towards end of his rookie year, only to have sophomore campaign cut to injury.

Cole Madison (5th round) still gets praises from time to time but no one can judge what we have there given his mental health step away from the game, then last year tearing his ACL.

MVS (5th round) still had one of the best WR rookie campaigns we've seen in a long time...dropped performance wise his 2nd year when faced with the pressure and chance of being the #2. Vastly too early to say whether this 5th round pick is a bust or will provide that #3-#5 WR option for years to come. He has proven one thing: he is not ready at least yet to even be sniffing around that #2 role.

This class also gave us a punter with a BOMB as a leg...probably is it seems extremely up and down and inconsistent...this third season for Scott (5th round) will tell us a lot.

It also gave us our starting long snapper in Hunter Bradley (7th round)

Oddly enough it gave us a OL in James Looney (7th round)...that was just signed (January 2020) to a contract after being switched over to Tight End in December of last year.

Anything 5th round on for me each year I don't judge too harshly...and the fact that those rounds gave us ESB, MVS, Bradley and Scott that are still battling or providing gameday play is saying something. Add in the fact that all 11 guys still presently hold NFL contracts and this class doesn't appear to fit the term "utter disaster" at all. If for no other reason than this draft class has not seen even a 3rd season yet....

However, let's look at what the draft class (11 guys currently gave us):

1 - BONAFIDE STUD STARTER: Jaire
3 - Gameday Starters & Contributors: MVS, Jackson, Burks, ESB, Scott and Bradley
2 - Guys with us on contracts battling for spots: Madison & Looney
2 - Guys no longer with us but hold a contract elsewhere: Moore (4th round), and Donnerson (7th round)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Past him though, there sure are a decent number of "projects" and perhaps "failed experiments", but mostly you have 'too early to tell' type guys.

I think your words here, are why some are willing to say that it is "starting to look like a failed class". I think the most disappointing thing to me is the fact that many of these guys actually went backwards last season, their second season in the NFL, its suppose to be the opposite. So I guess we will wait another year, maybe 2 to see if any of the questionable ones step up.

So call them what you want "projects or hopefuls", but out of the 11 picks, as of today, Jarie is about the only one that is playing at or above expectations.

One note, Savage should almost be added to this draft class, since Gute obtained the pick used (plus two 2019 4th round picks) to move up to draft him in 2019 from the 2018 draft.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robrei...ft-class-has-been-one-giant-dud/#3750fd5a55e9

 

[tynimiller]

I think your words here, are why some are willing to say that it is "starting to look like a failed class". I think the most disappointing thing to me is the fact that many of these guys actually went backwards last season, their second season in the NFL, its suppose to be the opposite. So I guess we will wait another year, maybe 2 to see if any of the questionable ones step up.

So call them what you want "projects or hopefuls", but out of the 11 picks, as of today, Jarie is about the only one that is playing at or above expectations.

One note, Savage should almost be added to this draft class, since Gute obtained the pick used (plus two 2019 4th round picks) to move up to draft him in 2019 from the 2018 draft.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robrei...ft-class-has-been-one-giant-dud/#3750fd5a55e9

The Savage point is one I almost made, because I firmly believe it cannot be overlooked as a factor.

I still think when you have added 3 day to day starters (not discussing how well we love or like them) in Jaire, Bradley and Scott...plus contributors in MVS, Jackson and Burks to various degrees....a promising ESB coming back I'm merely asking folks to back off calling it an utter failure or disaster is all.

Honestly I grade this class in two ways at the moment: C- for overall contributions, a D vs expectations (the upper picks have been out performed by the lower...which you never hope for).

I think if just one of the group including MVS, Scott, ESB, Jackson, Burks take steps forward and earn a second contract with GB this is a solid C class on top of Jaire, Bradley and by extension Savage. If two do so, they creep with flirting in that B range. I will say this class is not becoming an A class. It contributed three quick day one starters, but two were special teamers....and I just don't see enough guys "clicking" to argue for anything higher than that B/B- range.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I still think when you have added 3 day to day starters (not discussing how well we love or like them) in Jaire, Bradley and Scott...plus contributors in MVS, Jackson and Burks to various degrees....a promising ESB coming back I'm merely asking folks to back off calling it an utter failure or disaster is all.

I think if just one of the group including MVS, Scott, ESB, Jackson, Burks take steps forward and earn a second contract with GB this is a solid C class on top of Jaire, Bradley and by extension Savage. If two do so, they creep with flirting in that B range. I will say this class is not becoming an A class. It contributed three quick day one starters, but two were special teamers....and I just don't see enough guys "clicking" to argue for anything higher than that B/B- range.

First of all Savage was drafted last year while you seem to grade the 2018 class. In addition a punter and especially a long snapper performing either way don't tip the scale by a whole lot in my opinion.

 

[tynimiller]

First of all Savage was drafted last year while you seem to grade the 2018 class. In addition a punter and especially a long snapper performing either way don't tip the scale by a whole lot in my opinion.

First of all the savage mention is one you cannot remove from the discussion of 2018, as without 2018 draft moves, the 2019 draft class isn't the same. Doesn't tip it much either way, but you cannot ignore it.

I stated as such that two of the three starters are special teamers and don't do much to sway the scale if you will. However, again you cannot remove it from the equation entirely either. I wasn't attempting to build a case that the 2018 class was amazing, or even good...merely that it was not the utter disaster claimed. I don't see how any draft of 11 players, all of which still have NFL contracts, gave 3 day one starters, 2-3 others that have started along the way and depth guys is an utter disaster is all.

I'd bet irregardless of positions, if you told Gute his 2020 draft class could contribute just 1 day one starter, 2-3 game contributors/borderline starters and the rest be depth or guys that show signs of NFL futures he would take that 100%

 

[Deleted member 6794]

First of all the savage mention is one you cannot remove from the discussion of 2018, as without 2018 draft moves, the 2019 draft class isn't the same. Doesn't tip it much either way, but you cannot ignore it.

I stated as such that two of the three starters are special teamers and don't do much to sway the scale if you will. However, again you cannot remove it from the equation entirely either. I wasn't attempting to build a case that the 2018 class was amazing, or even good...merely that it was not the utter disaster claimed. I don't see how any draft of 11 players, all of which still have NFL contracts, gave 3 day one starters, 2-3 others that have started along the way and depth guys is an utter disaster is all.

I'd bet irregardless of positions, if you told Gute his 2020 draft class could contribute just 1 day one starter, 2-3 game contributors/borderline starters and the rest be depth or guys that show signs of NFL futures he would take that 100%

I agree that there's no reason to consider the 2018 draft class as an utter disaster by any means. While the first round pick acquired in the trade with the Saints should be considered when evaluating it I prefer to consider Savage part of the 2019 group, especially as it took another move by Gutekunst to select him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Thomas Dimitroff just said at the combine that the Falcons will let Austin Hooper test the market. There's my preferred free agent target on offense.

 

[gbgary]

While signing Tramon worked out well most of the time it doesn't make sense to bring back a player that was deemed not good enough for whatever reason at some point.

he wasn't deemed not good enough. he was deemed too expensive. it was a cap move. cap wise it worked out well.

 

[Mondio]

he wasn't deemed not good enough. he was deemed too expensive. it was a cap move. cap wise it worked out well.

His play was clearly heading the wrong way and then he was hurt. and then he was still hurt all offseason and then he didn't do much but get hurt for his new team and sit out. I'm not even sure but he likely finished on IR again. It was not just a cap move. Unless you think its a coincidence he left here injured and joined his new team injured despite an entire offseason off? odds on big mike being effective again are pretty small.

 

[Dantés]

Thomas Dimitroff just said at the combine that the Falcons will let Austin Hooper test the market. There's my preferred free agent target on offense.

I'm a little bit torn on him.

He's a better quality player at his position than most of the wide receivers that will be on the market.

At the same time, he's a solid starting TE who will almost certainly reset the TE market in terms of annual salary.

Is Hooper a good investment of 11M/season? I'm not sold. He's an OK blocker and a reliable receiver, but he really doesn't differentiate himself in either category. He's not a big value added to the running game, and he isn't really a playmaker in the receiving game.

I like that he's gone through his development, as TE's usually take time to blossom. However, I don't love his 3rd down performance. He was targeted 18 times on 3rd down in 2019 and only converted 9 times. 50% isn't a great success rate. It's an ongoing trend too-- he was targeted 22 times on 3rd downs in 2018 and converted 9 times.

I think I lean no, but I understand why some people would say yes.