2018 Draft Review

[RRyder]

Derwin James ain't no Nick Collins. Trust that.

Impact plays? Again, I like James...but he hasn't had an illustrious amount of impact plays. 3 interceptions for his career. His freshman year he had 4.5 sacks...he's a really good blitzer for his position, but I don't know if I would say he's produced an illustrious amount of impact plays in his career. For comparison, Nick Collins had 13 interceptions over his college career, and Alexander had 7. Both James and Alexander essentially missed a year or played hurt, and James played more as a freshman than Alexander did.

And I said Scott was a very good punter. If that's hyping him as the 2nd coming, then you've got a reading comprehension issue. Try to stick to the facts.

A bold statement when one was a better college prospect then the other.

Also its called projecting. Jalen Ramsey didn't exactly nab pick after pick either at FSU. Pointing to interceptions in college as a way of projecting playmaking imo is almost always a mistake. Teams will literally cut off half the field to avoid top level prospects in college.

However his ability to be a swiss army knife can be invaluable in today's game and it's entirely possible Alexander's size limitation keep him from being anything more then a slot CB in this league. (I'm not saying it will but he has warts too)

Also YOU said that you'd take the good CB over the very good Saftey. I gave you an example of a great Saftey and very good CB. The next step up because projections like this are generally done at max value. In which case you take the guy you feel will be better. It would seem that you weren't entirely honest when you said you take the good CB over the very good Saftey cause if that's the case you should also take the very good CB over the great Saftey

You obviously don't like James as a prospect.. At least not as much as Alexander. I simply disagree. The problem is you seem to think the assertion that James is a clear cut better prospect is ludicrous. It's not.

(And when I get to read posts talking about how our brand new punter is a "leader" and how hes going to put to shame a guy who last year was a top 10, probably closer to 7, Punter in this league I'm going to use hyperbole)

 

[RRyder]

I understand that people view James as a better prospect than Alexander in a vacuum. I’m one of those people. However, when you consider what Green Bay needed, which position is more valuable, and (this is big) that they got a 1st round pick out of the move that eventually resulted in Alexander, there’s no contest for me. I take Alexander and a 1st 100 times out of a hundred over James on his own.

I get that. But with the power of hindsight knowing we got Jackson in round 2 has an effect on overall grades when u now know u could've gotten James AND still gotten a legit CB prospect. (One many had on par with Alexander)

 

[Dantés]

I get that. But with the power of hindsight knowing we got Jackson in round 2 has an effect on overall grades when u now know u could've gotten James AND still gotten a legit CB prospect.

I don’t really think you can assess picks that way though. At least to me, I don’t think it’s reasonable to have expected Gutekunst to know that Jackson, who everyone thought would go higher, would be there at #45.

And frankly, one could argue that even after drafting one CB, the position was still a bigger need than safety... as sad as that sounds.

 

[RRyder]

I don’t really think you can assess picks that way though. At least to me, I don’t think it’s reasonable to have expected Gutekunst to know that Jackson, who everyone thought would go higher, would be there at #45.

And frankly, one could argue that even after drafting one CB, the position was still a bigger need than safety... as sad as that sounds.

Well I'm simply talking about overall draft grade when I mention that. In which case I agree it isnt fair. But neither is life. Gute is being judged on his ability to project value. In which case things like that get factored in.

Same way as I judge him for reaching on Burks (a player I like). If he could've been had a round later, (not saying that's an absolute), then drafting him earlier can only be classified as a mark against Gute. We'll never know but we're all just giving our opinions

 

[Dantés]

Well I'm simply talking about overall draft grade when I mention that. In which case I agree it isnt fair. But neither is life. Gute is being judged on his ability to project value. In which case things like that get factored in.

Same way as I judge him for reaching on Burks (a player I like). If he could've been had a round later, (not saying that's an absolute), then drafting him earlier can only be classified as a mark against Gute. We'll never know but we're all just giving our opinions

My opinion on the Burks pick is that the run that was going on at WILB (Warner at #70, Baker at #73, Jefferson at #78) necessitated the trade up for him. I’m guessing they had a certain number of guys they liked for that position and saw them getting picked off and decided to go get one before they were all gone. That position didn’t get talked about as much this offseason, but it was quietly the biggest hole on the roster. They literally did not have a WILL on the roster.

 

[McKnowledge]

Derwin James cannot play every spot in the secondary. Good grief. He projects as a good safety, a passable NB, and not an outside corner at all.

I want to preface this by saying I like James, but his tape has never matched his athletic ability or hype. I'll take a good CB over a very good safety any day. And I think Alexander can be a very good CB.

Outside of witnessing it yourself, tape is the most conclusive evidence you could ever have of anything, especially a player's athleticism. I can't speak on your perception of hype, but its acknowledged throughout the NFL that Derwin James is special.

https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/20...t-defensive-player-derwin-james-florida-state

 

[GleefulGary]

Good grief. I like Derwin James!

I'm just saying he has warts too. Every player does. He's not some perfect prospect that is 100% a stud, and we shouldn't be acting like it.

 

[GleefulGary]

A bold statement when one was a better college prospect then the other.

Also its called projecting. Jalen Ramsey didn't exactly nab pick after pick either at FSU. Pointing to interceptions in college as a way of projecting playmaking imo is almost always a mistake. Teams will literally cut off half the field to avoid top level prospects in college.

However his ability to be a swiss army knife can be invaluable in today's game and it's entirely possible Alexander's size limitation keep him from being anything more then a slot CB in this league. (I'm not saying it will but he has warts too)

Also YOU said that you'd take the good CB over the very good Saftey. I gave you an example of a great Saftey and very good CB. The next step up because projections like this are generally done at max value. In which case you take the guy you feel will be better. It would seem that you weren't entirely honest when you said you take the good CB over the very good Saftey cause if that's the case you should also take the very good CB over the great Saftey

You obviously don't like James as a prospect.. At least not as much as Alexander. I simply disagree. The problem is you seem to think the assertion that James is a clear cut better prospect is ludicrous. It's not.

(And when I get to read posts talking about how our brand new punter is a "leader" and how hes going to put to shame a guy who last year was a top 10, probably closer to 7, Punter in this league I'm going to use hyperbole)

I don't think I ever commented on Scott and his leadership capability.

I don't think Vogel was a top-10 punter. Perhaps statistically, but statistics are misleading based on personal and strategy.

 

[McKnowledge]

The pick went to Seattle to move back up. Plus some lower level picks.

So Green Bay held those picks, gave them up, and made more moves. They still gave away value. They did give those picks up. Mid-round draft picks>Late round draft picks.

So how did your discussions with his high school and college position coaches go? Also any conversations with him? During your meetings with the defensive co-ordinator did he need some one like him or does the review of tape by people that have been doing it for years because it puts bread on the table and a roof over their family's head show that you need a true CB, not someone that can also do it? You know, better than the conversion project you just shipped out.

LOL

Read a story the Brown's felt the pass rush was fine, but would be great if the DBs could buy an extra half step of coverage time. A lot of close but no cigar.

When was the last time any of these mock "experts" truly responsible for their decisions? Any battle plan is great until the first shot is fired.

Great pass rush mitigates average or below-average coverage, and great coverage can mitigate an average or below-average pass rush. So which prospect is better? Denzel Ward? or Bradley Chubb? I'm picking Chubb.

 

[McKnowledge]

I understand that people view James as a better prospect than Alexander in a vacuum. I’m one of those people. However, when you consider what Green Bay needed, which position is more valuable, and (this is big) that they got a 1st round pick out of the move that eventually resulted in Alexander, there’s no contest for me. I take Alexander and a 1st 100 times out of a hundred over James on his own.

Time will tell...

 

[brandon2348]

Derwin James could very easily end up being Jabrill Peppers. I liked James but I don't see Nick Collins so lets not act like we gave away a guaranteed "playmaker" away. There was a reason James dropped and we have safties.

The one player I wish we would of used back end capital on to get was Callaway. I really believe he would of given the offense a true immediate "playmaker". From what I found with Callaway is he likes to smoke pot. Well so does G-Mo and etc etc.

I believe Callaway will be this years "Kareem Hunt" as far as making that type of impact from 3rd round. Mayfield gonna throw him downfield all day long. Tomlin is fixin to get fired.

 

[Mondio]

In my admittedly small sample size of one replayed game on an over the air sports channel here, I was less than impressed with Derwin James in that game. Maybe a fine pick and he had 2-3 decent plays in that replayed game. The announcers couldn't stop gushing over him and what an impact he was going to have for some NFL team and to me he looked out of position and the only reason the play looked good was because he is an athlete going against a nobody in college. On at least one of those plays his reaction and angle to the play was horrible, an NFL RB would have gone 40 yds for a TD. But against the slow guy not going to the NFL, he barely made a shoe string tackle and it was "amazing".

anyway, I know it was 1 game, and not even a complete one at that. I'm not making any written in stone bold statement, mostly just an observation that even subpar play is glorified for some of these guys especially once their names are known by most. We see it every week in the NFL too, some guys can do no wrong, even when they do wrong right in front of us according to "experts" and announcers.

 

[GleefulGary]

Derwin James could very easily end up being Jabrill Peppers. I liked James but I don't see Nick Collins so lets not act like we gave away a guaranteed "playmaker" away. There was a reason James dropped and we have safties.

The one player I wish we would of used back end capital on to get was Callaway. I really believe he would of given the offense a true immediate "playmaker". From what I found with Callaway is he likes to smoke pot. Well so does G-Mo and etc etc.

I believe Callaway will be this years "Kareem Hunt" as far as making that type of impact from 3rd round. Mayfield gonna throw him downfield all day long. Tomlin is fixin to get fired.

I like Calloway as a player, but his issues are a lot more than smoking pot.

Him in the same locker room as Josh Gordon and Randall could be a disaster.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

An interesting "tidbit" about each player drafted by the Packers:

1. CB Jaire Alexander: Alexander allowed only three completions past the line of scrimmage over 148 coverage snaps in 2017.
2. CB Josh Jackson:The Iowa star didn’t allow a completion over 30 yards despite facing 91 targets in 2017.
3. LB Oren Burks: Burks started 40 total games at three different positions (safety, outside linebacker, inside linebacker) over four seasons at Vanderbilt.
4. WR J’Mon Moore:Moore became only the second receiver in Missouri history to post back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons. The first? Jeremy Maclin.
5. OL Cole Madison:Madison allowed only 12 career sacks despite playing almost 2,300 pass-blocking snaps over 47 starts, the second most in school history.
6. P JK Scott:Scott dropped 40.9 percent of his 188 career punts inside the 20-yard line. He also made nine extra points and a 48-yard field goal.
7. WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling:Valdes-Scantling set school records at USF for receiving yards in a season (879), longest touchdown reception (95 yards), most receiving yards in a game (186) and career yards per catch average (17.3).
8. WR Equanimeous St. Brown:Four of St. Brown’s nine touchdown receptions during his breakout sophomore season went for at least 29 yards.
9. DL James Looney:Looney made two game-saving tackles against Utah in 2016, stuffing the Utes running back short of the goal line on the final play with Cal up five points after previously making a stop on fourth down in the red zone earlier in the fourth quarter.
10. LS Hunter Bradley:Mississippi State’s team website recorded Bradley as having successfully completed every snap over 26 games during the 2016 and 2017 seasons.
11. OLB Kendall Donnerson:Tallied 32.5 tackles for losses and six forced fumbles over his final three seasons at SE Missouri.

 

[sschind]

I want to preface this by saying I like James, but his tape has never matched his athletic ability or hype. I'll take a good CB over a very good safety any day. And I think Alexander can be a very good CB.

CB was a bigger need than safety and I think that was the tipping point in Alexander's favor.

Read a story the Brown's felt the pass rush was fine, but would be great if the DBs could buy an extra half step of coverage time. A lot of close but no cigar.

That's why I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Dorsey may have indeed went for need over BPA but when your need pick is also a pretty damn good player in his own right maybe its not all that bad. Its not like Ward was a reach. Lots of mocks had him going to Cleveland at #4 after Chubb was off the board to the Giants. Its really too bad for Ward because if Chubb turns out to be all everyone expects he (Ward) will always be "the guy they took instead of Chubb." Even if he turns into a shutdown corner he will never be thought of as highly as Chubb.

Most teams including the Packers chose need over drafting the "best player available"..

It is arguable that Alexander was the BPA when the Packers chose at 18. Had he stood pat at 14 and taken Alexander then you could argue he went for need over BPA but since he didn't pick at 14 he didn't draft for need or BPA at that point.

 

[sschind]

An interesting "tidbit" about each player drafted by the Packers:

P JK Scott:Scott dropped 40.9 percent of his 188 career punts inside the 20-yard line. He also made nine extra points and a 48-yard field goal.

In comparison Vogel had just over 26 % last season.

Its not a roster spot you plan for but it is nice to have a guy on the roster who can be a legitimate back up kicker. I'm not saying they wouldn't run out and get a new kicker for the next game if MC got hurt but at least for the game it happened in we might be able to try a 40 yard FG for the game winner and have a shot at making it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In comparison Vogel had just over 26 % last season.

In Vogel's defense, I image that Hundley and the Packer offense didn't set him up as often to make those punts. Not sure if the stat is available, but it would be more informative to know what % of successful opportunities a punter had, when it was considered reasonable to punt the ball inside the 20.

 

[brandon2348]

I like Calloway as a player, but his issues are a lot more than smoking pot.

Him in the same locker room as Josh Gordon and Randall could be a disaster.

Dorsey made good with both Marcus Peters and Tyreek Hill who had troubling issues. I expect some more with Callaway.

 

[brandon2348]

Gute knocked it out of the park. Thank You GUTE!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

CB was a bigger need than safety and I think that was the tipping point in Alexander's favor.

Hopefully the Packers don't regret passing on James. I agree that with cornerback being in dire need of an upgrade Alexander presented the best value at #18.

 

[sschind]

In Vogel's defense, I image that Hundley and the Packer offense didn't set him up as often to make those punts. Not sure if the stat is available, but it would be more informative to know what % of successful opportunities a punter had, when it was considered reasonable to punt the ball inside the 20.

I did think of that. Hard to drop one inside the 20 when you are kicking from your own 30.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I did think of that. Hard to drop one inside the 20 when you are kicking from your own 30.

Although, maybe not for JK Scott LOL

 

[Arthur Squires]

Alexander I predict will be successful as a pro. But I can't say enough how big of a deal Jackson will be. This guy is a playmaker plain and simple. I see him being in play for Defensive Rookie this year. Madison will be a project imo. I still think Spriggs and Murphy have potential we haven't fully seen. Jmon is tricky feet type WR. Very quick and fluid in changing direction. My only question is how his body will hold up after a few blows from these pros.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For lack of a better place to post this, I think I am watching the wrong Football league.....I mean what a fight!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[RRyder]

An interesting "tidbit" about each player drafted by the Packers:

1. CB Jaire Alexander: Alexander allowed only three completions past the line of scrimmage over 148 coverage snaps in 2017.
2. CB Josh Jackson:The Iowa star didn’t allow a completion over 30 yards despite facing 91 targets in 2017.
3. LB Oren Burks: Burks started 40 total games at three different positions (safety, outside linebacker, inside linebacker) over four seasons at Vanderbilt.
4. WR J’Mon Moore:Moore became only the second receiver in Missouri history to post back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons. The first? Jeremy Maclin.
5. OL Cole Madison:Madison allowed only 12 career sacks despite playing almost 2,300 pass-blocking snaps over 47 starts, the second most in school history.
6. P JK Scott:Scott dropped 40.9 percent of his 188 career punts inside the 20-yard line. He also made nine extra points and a 48-yard field goal.
7. WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling:Valdes-Scantling set school records at USF for receiving yards in a season (879), longest touchdown reception (95 yards), most receiving yards in a game (186) and career yards per catch average (17.3).
8. WR Equanimeous St. Brown:Four of St. Brown’s nine touchdown receptions during his breakout sophomore season went for at least 29 yards.
9. DL James Looney:Looney made two game-saving tackles against Utah in 2016, stuffing the Utes running back short of the goal line on the final play with Cal up five points after previously making a stop on fourth down in the red zone earlier in the fourth quarter.
10. LS Hunter Bradley:Mississippi State’s team website recorded Bradley as having successfully completed every snap over 26 games during the 2016 and 2017 seasons.
11. OLB Kendall Donnerson:Tallied 32.5 tackles for losses and six forced fumbles over his final three seasons at SE Missouri.

I actually love Jackson in the 2nd round but is nobody concerned that he was targeted 91 times last year?

Yes he held up great but it does make one think that teams saw something on film that made them feel like they didn't need to gameplan away from him.

Could be wrong but top college corners never really seem to get targeted that much where as Jackson wasn't shied away from