Reading at www.packersnews.com yesterday that maybe the lack of edge rushers won't be such a big deal as Pettine is very big on getting inside/up the middle pressure.
2018 Draft Review
- Thread starter GleefulGary
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That might be the plan but I would definitely feel more comfortable about the pass rush with more quality depth on the edge.
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Turns out that pro bowl Micah Hyde was part of that secondary and two years ago we had the 500 year flood of injuries in the secondary while having a lousy and inconsistent pass rush. No one in the league has 10 good experienced DB’s on their roster. It’s not financially possible.
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True, there were other teams capable of having at least three decent cornerbacks on their roster though.
Sunshinepacker
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No, you're right. Plenty of people thought we should bench either HaHa or Burnett so that Hyde could see more time. And the injuries were my point. There's no person or team that can coach their way out of the number of injured secondary players the Packers have played with over the past two seasons. The only hope you really have is that the other Pro Bowl players on defense can account for the issues. Unfortunately the Packers' recent drafts have lacked those players.
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I don't remember a lot of posters advocating for that to happen.
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HardRightEdge
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I expect a better defensive product for a a few reasons in line with consesus thinking: (1) the long overdue "Fire Capers!", (2) Pettine simplifying for the youth on hand and the emphais on execution over scheme, and (3) upgraded talent at the cornerback position.
But "much better"? King's struggles last season is a cautionary tale when dealing with rookies.
Point (2) may be the most critical element. Until a couple years back, Capers' play calls were an elongated bunch of verbiage with a string of discreet calls for each unit. Whether this was a function of (1) Capers liking to mix and match unit calls on a play-by-play basis, (2) an inherently compartmentalizing mind-set, or (3) a "do your job" approach without having to think about what the other guys were doing, I wouldn't know at at this point and don't care.
"Communication" issues with this approach were then acknowledged. It was said it was taking too long to get those elongated verbiage stings from the box to the players. It was not acklowedged that such an approach may have lost something in translation in the "telephone game" (or "Chinese whispers" for out British friends).
Capers then went to a more compacted, "wholistic" if you will, play calling scheme. The call had everybody's job compacted into a shorter verbiage string. Though we don't know how this worked precisely, we can conceptualize how the change might have caused a different conceptual problem. Let's say there were 5 different calls for each of the units...line, LBs, backfield. That's 125 permutations. Or 10 different calls for each is 1,000 permutations. In the original elongated calling scheme, "do your job" was easier in that the players had to memorize only their own 5 (or 10) calls. In the compacted version of the calls, everybody would have to memorize 125 (or 1,000 calls) and then unpack from it their particular call.
Jump to 2017. How did this work out last season? The playcalling job jumped from Martinez in week 1, quickly to Ryan I presume since he was the guy waving and moving guys around for a couple of games, to Burnett, then to Clinton-Dix when Burnett was injured, and then when C-D wasn't getting it done to Capers (or McCarthy's?) satisfaction, back to Martinez it went. As for C-D, I wouldn't be certain that his problem wasn't just teammates not being able to hear adjustments from the free safty position.
Understand this, Packer fans: your defensive players were often confused about what they were supposed to be doing dating back quite a few year resulting in the thing you want least: the whole being less than the sum of the parts.
Fast forward to 2018 and the creation of "run game coordinator" and "pass game coordinator" coaching roles. That this was also done on the offensive side of the ball might suggest to the cynical among us that more authoratative titles were created to justify pay raises, the fact there there are no longer discreet CB and safety coaches suggests something else. It's a doubling down on that "wholistic" approach with the aim of achieving a whole greater than the sum of the parts. Or, if you prefer a less highfalutin take, it's "let's work together" where "do your job" entails helping the other guys do theirs.
With coaches and players born and bred in the Capers Way and key rookies starting from scratch in the NFL game, I would not be surprised if the season starts a bit rocky on the defensive side of the ball. If that happens to be the case, I'd reserve judgment until at least week 4. The early weeks of the season are generally pretty sloppy across the league in any event.
On the other hand, if this defense comes out guns-a-blazin', we may have to conclude past issues were not entirely a talent issue.
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King's development during his rookie campaign got derailed by a shoulder injury though, something I'm worried about with him entering this season.
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HardRightEdge
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To me, it's a two-fold concern. He looked clueless too often when healthy. And there's the shoulder thing. There are two fresh faces and one returning face with meaningful perimeter corner credentials, so there's that. And House for a kicker.
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HardRightEdge
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True, while acknowledging we cannot account for all 7 billion possilbe opinions on the planet.
If one did hold that opinion, he would have overlooked an essential fact: In 2016 Hyde played all 16 games and took 80% of the defensive snaps, primarily as the nickel corner, a position that is indistinguishable from strong safety on a number of snaps. It's possible he took every single nickel and dime snap that season.
Hyde certainly didn't lack for opportunity.
Miscast in Green Bay in light of his performance in Buffalo as primarily a free safety? Maybe. Maybe not. Hyde played well on occasion at strong safety when Burnett missed games with injuries, but nothing that said "Pro Bowl". We'll never know how he would have performed at free safety in the Capers scheme, surrounded by confusion and underperformance. What we saw may have been as good as it was gonna get.
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As I've mentioned earlier it might be smart to be a bit cautious before appointing the Packers' secondary to be significantly improved.
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HardRightEdge
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And I've already commented a scant 5 posts up on that word "significantly" as an as yet unfounded assumption, so you may replay to that if you like.
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I've already replied to several posters that in my opinion have taken a too enthusiastic approach about the defense entering this season.
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HardRightEdge
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I understand. My point is you needn't have replied to me as though I don't. You snagged my King comment right out of that post where I expressed my opinion on the matter.
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Yeah, you're right about that.
Sunshinepacker
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Sorry, I'm a frequent forgetter that sarcasm doesn't translate well. That was my point. "Everyone" knows in hindsight that Hyde should have played more but nobody seems to actually lay out how a defense starting three safeties would have worked.
GleefulGary
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He played 80% of the defensive snaps.
That’s a lot. Like HRE said, he didn’t lack for opportunity.
I recall Hyde's time here as a jack of all trades master of none type situation. He was not a guy who was going to win you games on his own but chances were he wasn't going to cost you any either and if you needed help he could fill in in many situations. I think you need a few guys like that as long as you are not paying them to much. When he was up for FA he was destined to get more than his past production (I don't like that word here but can't think of another. Value?) warranted so he was allowed to leave. I would have liked to keep him but not at the contract he eventually got.
I don't recall if the Packers made him any offer at all but I don't think they did. I wonder what it would have taken to keep him around had they made an offer to extend him prior to him reaching free agency. Who knows, maybe he sensed it was Capers' scheme holding him back and he wanted a chance to prove himself elsewhere so he was going to test FA no matter what. Who knows if the Packers ever would have made a change that allowed him to reach a higher potential. It would have been interesting however to see an extension and the ability to shine now under new defensive leadership. Alas we shall never know what might have been.
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Hyde looked like a FS to me from the first preseason game I saw him play in. Like Sharper and Randall, some guys just show more traits that make them appear to be better fits as a FS.
RicFlairoftheNFL
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Justin Lawler would've been a good depth upgrade at this position even with Pettine's scheme.
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FWIW according to PFF Lawler is one of the hidden gems in this year's draft class.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-hidden-gems-underrated-prospects-in-the-draft
