How about that? Coach fired.

[Voyageur]

Got my fingers crossed. They played great last night, but still failed to play enough defense to defeat a good team in a 7 game match. Doc was more of a spectator, which was good. The players took the game on their shoulders.

Not certain on how long Giannis is on the shelf, but it could help them, or hurt them. If they start to play well without him, he's going to be an added weapon, and that never hurts.

Right now? Waiting to see what happens. At least he avoided an Achilles injury.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Got my fingers crossed. They played great last night, but still failed to play enough defense to defeat a good team in a 7 game match. Doc was more of a spectator, which was good. The players took the game on their shoulders.

Not certain on how long Giannis is on the shelf, but it could help them, or hurt them. If they start to play well without him, he's going to be an added weapon, and that never hurts.

Right now? Waiting to see what happens. At least he avoided an Achilles injury.

Careful...I have drank from that optimistic well before!

I haven't watched any Celtics games this year, other than last night and I think the first matchup with the Bucks. So it is hard for me to say "they were taking a Bucks night off", but it wouldn't surprise me if they were. No Porzingis or Horford, on the road, #1 seed locked up.

I will say watching Jrue play defense last night, made me miss him.

 

[Voyageur]

Careful...I have drank from that optimistic well before!

I haven't watched any Celtics games this year, other than last night and I think the first matchup with the Bucks. So it is hard for me to say "they were taking a Bucks night off", but it wouldn't surprise me if they were. No Porzingis or Horford, on the road, #1 seed locked up.

I will say watching Jrue play defense last night, made me miss him.

Amen on Holiday. The guy does play the game like it should be played. I also agree that the Celtics had nothing to prove, and weren't playing their "A" game.

Can't read anything into it, except the Bucks showed team effort for once. Got my fingers crossed, but not buying that they've turned the corner. I doubt they have.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Amen on Holiday. The guy does play the game like it should be played. I also agree that the Celtics had nothing to prove, and weren't playing their "A" game.

Can't read anything into it, except the Bucks showed team effort for once. Got my fingers crossed, but not buying that they've turned the corner. I doubt they have.

I really miss Holiday. He is an incredible defender, and I'm convinced he was the equivalent of a point guard on defense. Guys around him played better because he was there. The guy is a leader, and a classy guy to boot.

I have no idea how the Bucks will do in the playoffs. I'd like them to win a series, an improvement over last year, and ideally make it to the East finals. (And all bets are off is Giannis' calf is bad enough to keep him from some or all of the first series.)

I have no illusion that they could beat the Celtics in a 7-game series. But if they can make it that far, something will be salvaged from this miserable year.

 

[Voyageur]

I really miss Holiday. He is an incredible defender, and I'm convinced he was the equivalent of a point guard on defense. Guys around him played better because he was there. The guy is a leader, and a classy guy to boot.

I have no idea how the Bucks will do in the playoffs. I'd like them to win a series, an improvement over last year, and ideally make it to the East finals. (And all bets are off is Giannis' calf is bad enough to keep him from some or all of the first series.)

I have no illusion that they could beat the Celtics in a 7-game series. But if they can make it that far, something will be salvaged from this miserable year.

I'd almost rather see the Bucks knocked out prior to playing the Celtics to be honest. The reason is Holiday. I don't want to watch him destroying us with his consistent play, and leadership. I don't care if Lillard puts up 35 points in a game at 50% shooting behind the 3. I'd rather have Holiday putting up 12, finding outlet passes that create mismatches, and a lot of buckets that don't get assist credit but should, because of how he exploits defenses. Then, on defense, his taking the opposition off drives in the lane with his solid defense out front. So much of a team player. I'll never forgive Horst. He's a total idiot for trading him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'd almost rather see the Bucks knocked out prior to playing the Celtics to be honest. The reason is Holiday. I don't want to watch him destroying us with his consistent play, and leadership. I don't care if Lillard puts up 35 points in a game at 50% shooting behind the 3. I'd rather have Holiday putting up 12, finding outlet passes that create mismatches, and a lot of buckets that don't get assist credit but should, because of how he exploits defenses. Then, on defense, his taking the opposition off drives in the lane with his solid defense out front. So much of a team player. I'll never forgive Horst. He's a total idiot for trading him.

Agreed. Reminds me of game 5 in the championship series against Phoenix. It was very late in the game, the Bucks were up by 1, and Phoenix had a fast break. Booker had the ball and was just turning to his left to take a mid-range shot for the lead. Holiday positioned himself perfectly in Booker's blind spot and as soon as Booker turned to start his shooting motion, Holiday literally grabbed the ball away from him and broke the other way. Giannis saw it coming and was leading on the other side of the floor in transition, really a fast break. It was too easy. Holiday lobbed an alley oop and Giannis jammed it. 3 point lead. Game over. The subsequent finals win in Milwaukee was anticlimactic.

Now I see Boston has given Holiday a 4 year contract extension worth $135m. Good for him. And yeah, Horst screwed the pooch by trading for Lillard. And nothing against Lillard, a brilliant offensive force and HOF shoo in. But the Bucks didn't need two great scorers to share one ball, while taking away their best defensive player. Just a disaster. I can forgive Horst firing Bud, well sort of - can't lose in 5 games to an 8th seed, just can't. But Holiday? Yeah, it would be hard to watch the Celtics finish the Bucks' season. I doubt it will get that far though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The reason is Holiday......................... So much of a team player. I'll never forgive Horst. He's a total idiot for trading him.

Agree, especially given that Jrue wanted to stay in Milwaukee and finish his career as a Buck. In this day and age that is somewhat rare of a Superstar in any Sport.

 

[Voyageur]

Agree, especially given that Jrue wanted to stay in Milwaukee and finish his career as a Buck. In this day and age that is somewhat rare of a Superstar in any Sport.

I don't get the fans who say we got rid of him because he was going to retire. He didn't say that. He said he wanted to end his career in Milwaukee, and call it home. That signifies to me that he would have taken a contract extension. But, because it fits into the "hate the guy who's gone" philosophy of too darned many fans, they say he was gonna leave anyway.

But, that's the way it is with way too many fans.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now I see Boston has given Holiday a 4 year contract extension worth $135m. Good for him.

That's a huge contract for a guy that is Jrue's age (will be 34 in June). I heard only 4 other players at his age have gotten $100M deals. I also heard that with this contract, for the next two seasons, the Celtics starting 5 guys will be making close to $200M.

I don't get the fans who say we got rid of him because he was going to retire. He didn't say that.

Honestly, I think a lot of casual fans seem to only pay attention to how many points a player scores. Jrue may only average 15-20 points/game, but he is player with an all around game. His defense is great and he is a really good assist guy. I don't see any player on the Bucks right now that consistently provides everything that Jrue did.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That's a huge contract for a guy that is Jrue's age (will be 34 in June). I heard only 4 other players at his age have gotten $100M deals. I also heard that with this contract, for the next two seasons, the Celtics starting 5 guys will be making close to $200M.


Honestly, I think a lot of casual fans seem to only pay attention to how many points a player scores. Jrue may only average 15-20 points/game, but he is player with an all around game. His defense is great and he is a really good assist guy. I don't see any player on the Bucks right now that consistently provides everything that Jrue did.

Interesting stuff. I knew he was over 30, but not 34. That is a big contract but he's certainly worth it. And the way he plays, yeah he's physical but he uses his head as much as his body. As you note, he's an elite defender who can score and create assists.

And I do recall him saying he and his family planned on making Milwaukee home, during and after his playing days.

Other than Giannis, Holiday was the only other guy I considered irreplaceable on the championship team. Not sure who thought getting Lillard and dumping Holiday would make the Bucks better. As usual, first thought wrong.

But the Celtics fielding a starting lineup at $200m? I guess it says the owners are all-in on championships - plural.

 

[Voyageur]

Today is judgement day for the Bucks. They win today and have #2 seed in the East. Lose, and quite honestly, they're dog meat. This is not the way this season should have gone.

Now it's a question of saving face for them. Either they pull it together and overcome front office stupidity, or they fold their tent and pack their bags, because they'll be on someone else's roster next year if they're smart.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Today is judgement day for the Bucks. They win today and have #2 seed in the East. Lose, and quite honestly, they're dog meat. This is not the way this season should have gone.

Now it's a question of saving face for them. Either they pull it together and overcome front office stupidity, or they fold their tent and pack their bags, because they'll be on someone else's roster next year if they're smart.

Amen V. Time to salvage a forgettable year for a team with so much talent. Time to make a statement.

We’ll see what they’re made of. It’s been a year of incredibly inconsistent and disappointing play. Yeah a 2 seed is nice. But we shouldn’t still have so many questions.

Holiday is not coming back and Giannis is out. Who is gonna step up?

 

[Voyageur]

Down by 10, 2 minutes left in the 3rd, they are playing like a loser. They got nothing in the tank. They just can't compete.

John Horst needs to be congratulated at doing the perfect job of destroying a roster and a franchise that was on the verge of being great. As for ownership, they're idiots for allowing this travesty to happen. Anyone with any sense whatsoever would have seen what this guy was doing two years ago, and put a stop to it.

 

[Voyageur]

Great job by the Bucks and Rivers. A must win game, and get whipped by 30+. It's not disappointing, it's disgusting.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Great job by the Bucks and Rivers. A must win game, and get whipped by 30+. It's not disappointing, it's disgusting.

Seems like the players have given up. That should never happen, but considering all the mistakes Horst made before and during the season, pinning this fiasco on him seems appropriate. And cold comfort it is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Bucks will be facing the Pacers in the first round. A team that dominated them in the regular season, winning 4 out 5 against the hapless Bucks. At least they will be put out of their misery quickly again this playoff season.

 

[Voyageur]

The Bucks will be facing the Pacers in the first round. A team that dominated them in the regular season, winning 4 out 5 against the hapless Bucks. At least they will be put out of their misery quickly again this playoff season.

Maybe the Pacers will put them out of their misery, and the owners can get on with the job of dismantling the management and coaching staff, so this team can be rebuilt. I've never seen this much dysfunction to be honest.

As poorly as they've played, I'm not certain I'd be willing to pay $2 for a ticket to watch them play if it was 5 minutes from home, and I had a luxury seat. Now, if they throw in shrimp cocktail, and a nice lobster dinner, or prime rib, I'd do the two bucks. But, I'd want to eat first, because the nausea after watching them play would ruin my appetite.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As poorly as they've played, I'm not certain I'd be willing to pay $2 for a ticket to watch them play if it was 5 minutes from home, and I had a luxury seat. Now, if they throw in shrimp cocktail, and a nice lobster dinner, or prime rib, I'd do the two bucks. But, I'd want to eat first, because the nausea after watching them play would ruin my appetite.

Maybe with all that AND Mallory Edens picked me up and took me home (her home), I would go.

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[Voyageur]

Maybe with all that AND Mallory Edens picked me up and took me home (her home), I would go.

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At my age, 83, I don't have a clue what I'd do with her! I'm not interested in stroking out!

 

[Heyjoe4]

The Bucks will be facing the Pacers in the first round. A team that dominated them in the regular season, winning 4 out 5 against the hapless Bucks. At least they will be put out of their misery quickly again this playoff season.

Yeah that's a solid prediction. Then again, after losing to three of the worst teams in the entire league, and in games that counted, anyone could eliminate these Bucks.

Gonna be a long off season. The team is old, they have no draft picks until the next century. The only way out of this mess is to trade who can be traded and start a rebuild. Can't believe I'm saying this.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm never going to rule the Bucks out of it, until they are. However, if Giannis doesn't come back for the Pacers series, that will be a tough one to get out of. If they do, they would face either the Knicks, Sixers or Heat. The Bucks actually played better against those 3 teams. They swept the 6'ers (3-0). Went 2-1 against the Heat and 3-2 against the Knicks.

If the somehow they make it to the East Finals, the Celtics might be waiting on the other side. The Bucks were 2-2 against the Celtics.

 

[weeds]

If the somehow they make it to the East Finals, the Celtics might be waiting on the other side. The Bucks were 2-2 against the Celtics.

Pre- or Post- Doc? Not that it really matters I guess. Pre-Doc, MEGA scoring and no D. Post-Doc, WTF?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm never going to rule the Bucks out of it, until they are. However, if Giannis doesn't come back for the Pacers series, that will be a tough one to get out of. If they do, they would face either the Knicks, Sixers or Heat. The Bucks actually played better against those 3 teams. They swept the 6'ers (3-0). Went 2-1 against the Heat and 3-2 against the Knicks.

If the somehow they make it to the East Finals, the Celtics might be waiting on the other side. The Bucks were 2-2 against the Celtics.

All good points. They shouldn't be ruled out. That's why they play the games. The Pacers aren't a good draw, but then again neither were the eight seeded Heat last year. And they did well in the regular season games against all their possible opponents but the Pacers, as you note.

In fairness, I didn't feel great about the Packers chances against the Cowboys in January. We know how that went.....

 

[Heyjoe4]

Pre- or Post- Doc? Not that it really matters I guess. Pre-Doc, MEGA scoring and no D. Post-Doc, WTF?

I recall they were blown out once by the Celtics, won a regular season game with both teams at full strength, and won the last game with the Celtics resting some starters. But they did play well against the Celtics.

Not sure about the pre-Doc, post-Doc stuff. Their schedule with Doc was much harder with a lot of the top West teams in the mix.

This team lacks an identity, or at least a consistent identity. Right now they are mostly built for offense. If they are gonna win in the post-season, it will be with their offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure about the pre-Doc, post-Doc stuff. Their schedule with Doc was much harder with a lot of the top West teams in the mix.

A good point and one that can easily be lost in a long season.

I don't follow the Bucks as close as I do the Packers, but this 2023 Bucks team seems like a real Jekyll and Hyde team. One that keeps thinking that a new coach, new chemistry between players, etc. will suddenly turn them into a Championship caliber team.

I think as @Voyageur rightfully points out, in the end, Horst can be blamed for this cluster F*** of a team. Getting rid of Holiday, obtaining Lillard and changing coaches like underwear, may land him in the unemployment line when this is all done.

I really don't want to see Giannis traded and it would shock me to see it happen, but as of now, he might be the only piece of the team that is worth a whole lot. I'm not a Chris Middleton fan, especially since his recent rash of injuries. If they could figure out a way to purge him and get something in exchange, things might get better in 2024-25.

Drafting really doesn't seem to work out for the Bucks, at least recently. Beside Malcolm Brogdon, who I think the Bucks gave up way too early on, Giannis has been about the only draft pick in the last 20+ years that has amounted to much.

What a mess, hoping for a 2024 Miracle!