You all blame Barry but refuse to blame MLf

[El Guapo]

Lafleur came out today supporting Barry
He’s as much of the problem if he thinks Barry is competent
Get rid of them both

I think that we all want Barry gone, but who would you replace Barry with in season? Who actually has any experience calling plays??

 

[Sanguine camper]

At this point, replacing Barry is an act that shows the players that there is accountability and that somebody cares enough to make a change. Will an interim DC turn the team around? It's doubtful but keeping the team together will pay dividends next year with a fresh DC.

 

[milani]

I think that we all want Barry gone, but who would you replace Barry with in season? Who actually has any experience calling plays??

Very little can be done for 2023. It is more than calling plays. The system and the instruction have to change. Yes, there are shortcomings with the talent level and injuries. Now if we could have been destroyed in Week 2 or 3 of this season a change could be made. Not now. Think of all those Capers years giving up all those yards and points during the season and postseason. He got a pass because most of the time a powerful Packer offense scored enough points to win games anyway until it came to crunch time in the postseason.

 

[Poppa San]

Now if we could have been destroyed in Week 2 or 3 of this season a change could be made.

Week four Packers gave up only 34 because I believe Detroit took their foot off the gas. It was 27-3 at halftime. 200+ yards rushing. Yep, a change should have been made then.

 

[milani]

Week four Packers gave up only 34 because I believe Detroit took their foot off the gas. It was 27-3 at halftime. 200+ yards rushing. Yep, a change should have been made then.

The Lions were actually kind to us that night. I think when Turkey Day came they simply thought we were dessert instead of the main course.

 

[PikeBadger]

Murphy held on to Ted way too long. He should have recognized that Ted was having issues.
I hate Barry...Lafleur doesn't get a pass either. He has watched this garbage defense fold too often under Barry's leadership. Get a real d.c. and go back to 4-3!

Explain to me who would be your starters in a 4-3 defense.

 

[Voyageur]

Explain to me who would be your starters in a 4-3 defense.

Even when we play 3 down in the front, we have 5 guys at the line. The two OLBs play up, creating what's essentially a 5 man front. As far as personnel to go to a straight 4-3, we don't have the right personnel in my opinion. But, like I said, it's my opinion.

 

[milani]

Explain to me who would be your starters in a 4-3 defense.

Agreed. He held TT too long. In a 4-3 I would put Kenny Clark as one of the DTs, Preston Smith at one Defensive End. We need another Gilbert Brown type at the other DT. And we may need another DE. Van Ness could be a good one but he is too skinny right now. He could be a KGB on passing downs. Z would have been a good DE in the 4-3. Gary could be one of the OLBs. Quay is fast but would not be physical enough to handle the blocks that come from a center or TE consistently in a 4-3. Definitely, would need a few new body types.

 

[PikeBadger]

Agreed. He held TT too long. In a 4-3 I would put Kenny Clark as one of the DTs, Preston Smith at one Defensive End. We need another Gilbert Brown type at the other DT. And we may need another DE. Van Ness could be a good one but he is too skinny right now. He could be a KGB on passing downs. Z would have been a good DE in the 4-3. Gary could be one of the OLBs. Quay is fast but would not be physical enough to handle the blocks that come from a center or TE consistently in a 4-3. Definitely, would need a few new body types.

It seems to me that going to 4-3, requires a total change in front 7 personnel. Voyageur's idea sounds more like a 5-2 to me.

 

[Pugger]

MLF has the youngest team in the league on the brink of making the playoffs just one year after losing a 1st ballot hall of fame quarterback. Despite having a complete and utter buffoon as the team’s defensive coordinator.

He should have moved on way sooner from Barry (and quite honestly, never hired him to begin with), but no one bats a thousand and his positives far outweigh the negatives.

Look around the league at all of the **** poor coaching. You don’t offload a bright young coach just because one of his few flaws is loyalty to his staff.

The only reason some are questioning MLF is because he hasn't moved on from Barry yet. Last offseason was the perfect time to make the move and there is a chance he won't this time either.

 

[Sanguine camper]

MLF can't manage a coaching staff and it's looking like his Achilles heel. He's held onto Barry and Drayton too long and promoted Stenovich when he should've stayed to work his magic as an o line coach.

 

[tynimiller]

MLF can't manage a coaching staff and it's looking like his Achilles heel. He's held onto Barry and Drayton too long and promoted Stenovich when he should've stayed to work his magic as an o line coach.

Drayton...? There is no "held" he has been gone for a couple years now.

The issue with Steno was I sensed we were on the verge of losing him had MLF not promoted him - while some coaches do not desire to be anything further after a coordinator, most do not have a desire to just stay a offensive line coach or a defensive back coach.

 

[Voyageur]

Drayton...? There is no "held" he has been gone for a couple years now.

The issue with Steno was I sensed we were on the verge of losing him had MLF not promoted him - while some coaches do not desire to be anything further after a coordinator, most do not have a desire to just stay a offensive line coach or a defensive back coach.

The money difference between position coach and coordinator is significant. An assistant could be as high as about $400k, up from the $150k a few years ago, but for a minor coordinator designations, it could be as high as the $2 mill that Rich Bisaccia is being paid.

From what I gather, that's significant. But, Barry makes roughly $4 mill. Talk about a waste of money? Here it is!

 

[Sanguine camper]

Drayton...? There is no "held" he has been gone for a couple years now.

The issue with Steno was I sensed we were on the verge of losing him had MLF not promoted him - while some coaches do not desire to be anything further after a coordinator, most do not have a desire to just stay a offensive line coach or a defensive back coach.

Mo Drayton should've been fired by mid-season. He stayed on until his units cost a playoff game. I would say that was a bad failure by MLF. Those failures were predictable given their weekly putrid performance. Again, it's putting loyalty over performance and that's extremely costly. With Steno, I would get him to stay by giving him a hefty salary increase. Works with most people. Stenovich is a good example of the Peter principle.

 

[tynimiller]

Mo Drayton should've been fired by mid-season. He stayed on until his units cost a playoff game. I would say that was a bad failure by MLF. Those failures were predictable given their weekly putrid performance. Again, it's putting loyalty over performance and that's extremely costly. With Steno, I would get him to stay by giving him a hefty salary increase. Works with most people. Stenovich is a good example of the Peter principle.

Sanguine, I was merely addressing the claim that "he's held" onto was worded in a way I thought you either still thought Drayton was on staff or perhaps had mixed him and Rich up?

You'll get no disagreement from me that Drayton absolutely had earned a mid-season firing truthfully!

 

[milani]

It seems to me that going to 4-3, requires a total change in front 7 personnel. Voyageur's idea sounds more like a 5-2 to me.

It usually does. Recall how Aaron Kampman was superb in the 4-3 but when we went 3-4 there was no good place to put him. We once made the transition to 3-4. I am sure we could make back to a 4-3. The LBs have to be able to run faster to the boundaries. And when facing a gunslinger like Mayfield you can go 4-4 to get the extra corner or 2 on the field with the option of blitzing one.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Murphy held on to Ted way too long. He should have recognized that Ted was having issues.
I hate Barry...Lafleur doesn't get a pass either. He has watched this garbage defense fold too often under Barry's leadership. Get a real d.c. and go back to 4-3!

Based on the interview Poppinga did with Cowherd Thompson shouldn't have made the 2011 draft

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

The issue is more than DC Joe Barry, it's D-Line coach, the linebacker's coach, the OC who was a very good O-line coach and the HC who over the last two years has shown to be more like McCarthy in his last two seasons. Stubborn, unable to adjust, and unwilling to listen.
Not long ago Mark Murphy made himself the lord of Gutey and LaFleur having them report direct to him.
In my opinion Murphy needs to go, along with the entire coaching staff with the exception of Clements, who's done a good job of working with Love.
I personally would like to see Murphy replaced with John Schneider, and then raid the 49er or Texans D-Staff for a new Head Coach.
Compare what DeMeco Ryans has done with a young roster in Houston, versus what LaFleur has done this year. While Houston has lost games, they have not been out coached, game after game, after game.
Other teams keep doing the same things to the Packers knowing we will not adjust to stop them. What does LaFleur do on Offense, stop doing what was working (running Jones, etc) and get cute with the play calling. He is more McCarthy 2017-2018, than the next best coach. He is the new Marty Shottenheimer, king of the regular season and unable to get the W in big games. It's why the Chargers fired Marty after a 14-2 season. We need to not do what San Diego did and wait too long to move on.

I trust our D-Line coach a helluva lot more than I trust Butkus coaching that O-Line

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Murphy isn't micromanaging Gute, & Gute isn't micromanaging MLF...they're all allowing those below them to do their job.

I also hear Murphy is to much involved with creating/planning the neighborhood around the stadium
and letting everyone decide on football.

Also how could we have two Hall-of-fame quarterbacks over 20+ years come away with one Super Bowl each
in their time spent here??????

 

[mradtke66]

Agreed. He held TT too long. In a 4-3 I would put Kenny Clark as one of the DTs, Preston Smith at one Defensive End. We need another Gilbert Brown type at the other DT. And we may need another DE. Van Ness could be a good one but he is too skinny right now. He could be a KGB on passing downs. Z would have been a good DE in the 4-3. Gary could be one of the OLBs.

Who is the DE and who is the OLB is backwards. Gary would be an excellent DE in a 4-3. He's the bigger, wide-body player. Gary is the stouter player, Smith is better in coverage between the two, he'd be a pretty good 4-3 SAM when in base. LVN would also be a pretty good DE in a 4-3. Honestly, who our DEs would be in a 4-3 is the obvious and easy answer, since all of our OLBs spend most of their time as defacto 4-3 ends anyway.

Quay would be a pretty good WILL in a 4-3, because as always, 4-3 MIKE and WILL are almost a perfect 1:1 to 3-4 MACK and BUCK.

We probably also have our DTs sorted as well. Kenny would be either the nose or the 3-technique. Wyatt is also a reasonable 3-tech player.

And for all that, it won't matter. Nickel is the new base defense. Our 4-2 would be the same 4-2 it is today and has always been going back to Capers.

 

[Team Ronny]

Explain to me who would be your starters in a 4-3 defense.

Clark, Slaton, Vaness, Smith
Gary, Campbell, walker. Anything is better than that 3-4 crap. I don't really care who the starters are as long as the can get better in the front 7.

 

[El Guapo]

Remember when we switched to a 3-4 and Aaron Kampman was extremely unhappy. He struggled in his new role at OLB and eventually tore his ACL. Just moving guys to new positions works on paper, but is usually a lot more tricky in realty. We would need to draft/acquire players suited for a 4-3.

 

[mradtke66]

Remember when we switched to a 3-4 and Aaron Kampman was extremely unhappy. He struggled in his new role at OLB and eventually tore his ACL. Just moving guys to new positions works on paper, but is usually a lot more tricky in realty. We would need to draft/acquire players suited for a 4-3.

It's been almost 15 years since then.

A: The change for THIS roster to a 4-3 would be easier. We'd have to adjust what we're looking for at DT as I don't know if anyone has the ideal body type to be an every down 3-technique defensive tackle.

B: It doesn't matter because Nickel is the modern base defense. How many snaps are we even in true 3-4 in between the 20s?

C: It doesn't matter because if you took our 3-4 base of Smith, Wyatt, Clark, Slaton, Gary, Campbell, and Walker....you have a solid 4-3 front 7. Put Gary's hand in the dirt, boom. 4-3 done.

 

[mradtke66]

Clark, Slaton, Vaness, Smith
Gary, Campbell, walker.

Why does everyone want to take our biggest EDGE player (Gary) and turn him into a non-pass rushing linebacker? Especially when of all of our outside linebackers, Smith is the best cover man?

 

[PackerDNA]

I've always preferred the 4-3. But you need different types of players up front. I remember Bum Phillips said you play a 3-4 if you have more better linebackers, and a 4-3 if you have more better lineman.