Was getting rid of Capers and TT really the solution?

[easyk83]

If this is what an outlier looks like, I'll take it every damn time:

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Excatly Ron Wolf is a legend for also bringing home just one, most GMs never manage this feat

 

[Half Empty]

Excatly Ron Wolf is a legend for also bringing home just one, most GMs never manage this feat

I tend to think that a difference in appreciating Wolf's one more than Ted's one is that Wolf's was preceded by the Gory Years, whereas Ted's was preceded by some pretty decent seasons. Even at that, a legend?

 

[Half Empty]

You do realize that most GMs fail to build a team to even make it into a Superbowl. Just getting to one is an achievement in this league and besides in the Thompson era the Packers played in what 4 NFC championships? Thats a lot of times knocking on the door in one GMs tenure.

Again, the point was that I don't believe in being satisfied with 2010, if that's all we get out of AR's tenure. And, personally, it's the losses in the big games that bug me more than not getting there, specially with the way some of the championships you mentioned were lost. Expectations have much to do with how I view results - for most of TT's reign, having AR at the helm pretty much meant a playoff berth. As happy as I was with the New England SB win, the loss to Denver the next year was more of a downer for me, as most thought we'd have back-to-back Lombardis. I have no argument with the bold, just the contention that someone would take a SB and not look for more (again, 'outlier') and be satisfied.

 

[rmontro]

Whatever he might have once done for the Packers, Thompson has left this team in a mess. And they kept Capers far too long.
Thompson gets credit for picking Rodgers, but he failed to capitalize on it. When you have a quarterback that people are calling the greatest of all time at his position on a weekly basis, one Super Bowl is a failure. Now Gute has to work to dig the team out of its hole.
The team at least got to a second Super Bowl under Wolf, even though they lost.
Rodgers lost to Colin Kaeprenick in the playoffs, twice. How does that look?

The 15 -1 team had to outscore people every week.

I think when you outscore people, that's called "winning".

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But was the talent the problem or the inability of Capers to A) utilize the talent that he had or B) the failure of he and his staff to develop talent? We could have two pro bowl caliber safeties right now in Randall and Hyde if Capers had been able to use those two better.

I think the defense having struggled for most seasons since 2010 was a combination of a lack of talent as well as Capers not using players to their strenghts.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Arguably the two best off season moves the organization has made in recent memory. Will take some time to climb out of the hole TT has dug.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

But was the talent the problem or the inability of Capers to A) utilize the talent that he had or B) the failure of he and his staff to develop talent? We could have two pro bowl caliber safeties right now in Randall and Hyde if Capers had been able to use those two better.

Randall isn't exactly lighting it up and Hyde is looking like last year was an anomaly. Additionally, I'm pretty sure Capers wasn't the guy in charge of signing them.

 

[PackinMSP]

People forget that TT drafted

Jennings
Jones
Jordy
Finley

Bishop
Collins
Raji

Who were all huge to the Super Bowl win

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Randall isn't exactly lighting it up and Hyde is looking like last year was an anomaly. Additionally, I'm pretty sure Capers wasn't the guy in charge of signing them.

While neither Randall nor Hyde have performed at an elite level so far this season both are better than any safety currently on the Packers roster.

People forget that TT drafted

Jennings
Jones
Jordy
Finley

Bishop
Collins
Raji

Who were all huge to the Super Bowl win

Thompson deserves huge credit for building the roster that won the Super Bowl in 2010. That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't nearly as successful over the last few years of his tenure though.

 

[Conso]

Did you expect Gutekunst to just cut 50 players this past offseason and replace them with his own players in a matter of five months and we were going to be favorites for the Super Bowl? It doesn't get any more unrealistic than that. This is going to take time. Whether or not this happens before Rodgers loses his A game is yet to be seen.

Exactly, people need to remember that Gute has a lot of work to do to repair the TT debacle. He has started well IMHO but there are a lot of new faces on the team so players/coaches need to figure each other out and what to expect from new teammates. I figured this year would be like a sputtering car until everyone gets on the same page most likely. Look at positives already showing up. WRs we have DA doing well, plus some rookies are starting to sparkle showing promise with more play time. RB is looking good, much better than it has in years, get rid of “RB by committee” and let Jones get some more carries and it might be even better plus take more pressure off AR. Defense I get the feeling it’s the players getting used to Pettine’s scheme and whatnot. Gute is also trying to get rid of bad attitudes, only time will tell if that was a good pair of moves or not (talking about Ha-Ha and the other guy, the one who ignored what coaches told him and lost the Rams game for us.) Like I said we’ll see if those were good moves or not in time. Contract year for HaHa wasn’t it? So maybe he’ll go lazy-mode again once he nets a contract.

 

[PackerDNA]

While letting Capers and TT go was not the cure-all for this team, it was a good start. Things have gotten stale. I think it's the same with McCarthy, and as of today, I think it's 50-50 that this is his last year.

 

[Half Empty]

People forget that TT drafted

Jennings
Jones
Jordy
Finley

Bishop
Collins
Raji

Who were all huge to the Super Bowl win

First, fans have never (to my knowledge) had a problem with giving TT credit for the first part of his tenure. He (as noted above) made plenty of other good moves (Matthews, Bulaga, Woodson and others) to get many key players in that Cinderella season - including free agency! If you started a thread with a title along the lines of "Ted Thompson deserves a great deal of credit for the Packers' 2010 season SB win", absolutely nobody outside of a few trolls would do anything but confirm.

However, if you're going to throw out a bunch of names to support your contention, a little self-editing is in order. I'm not sure if you mean, by 'Super Bowl win', that SEASON or that GAME. In either case, Finley is a bad example, as he played in 5 regular season games and none in the postseason. Jordy had a pretty pedestrian season but came alive in the playoffs, and Jones was along those lines. I'm sure there are individual plays that can be cited in opposition, but I'm not interested in arguing, just pointing out that examples need to be pertinent.

 

[Mavster]

I don't even think an argument can be made for keeping Capers back then. He deserved to be let go far before he was, and how he managed to become to the longest tenured DC in the league before he was fired is a huge stain on the Packers FO. Why they kept around a defensive coordinator that continually surrendered historic nights is something i wish i could ask MM.

Ted's drafting fell off of a cliff and it's painfully obvious to any objective Packer fan. Plus he's seemed a little lost in his mind these past few years.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I don't even think an argument can be made for keeping Capers back then. He deserved to be let go far before he was, and how he managed to become to the longest tenured DC in the league before he was fired is a huge stain on the Packers FO. Why they kept around a defensive coordinator that continually surrendered historic nights is something i wish i could ask MM.

Ted's drafting fell off of a cliff and it's painfully obvious to any objective Packer fan. Plus he's seemed a little lost in his mind these past few years.

Beginning with the 2015 draft, 3 players selected in the first 4 rounds by us have been on the offensive side- Montgomery(gone), Spriggs(terrible), and J'Mon. People acted like Hundley was the problem last year. He was just another problem on top of an offense which had been starved of talent. And we all know what the defense looked like. This organization was run as poorly as any from years 2015-17, and that's not an easy fix. Thank goodness for Clark and Martinez.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Beginning with the 2015 draft, 3 players selected in the first 4 rounds by us have been on the offensive side- Montgomery(gone), Spriggs(terrible), and J'Mon.

Jamaal Williams was selected in the fourth round last season and seems to be the best of the bunch.

 

[PackinMSP]

Ted got old basically I feel...

For the past 3 drafts,

Clark
Martinez
Aaron Jones
Lowry


Randall (this is debateable actually as I believe he was out of position)
Jake Ryan is debateable

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Jamaal Williams was selected in the fourth round last season and seems to be the best of the bunch.

I thought that he was 5th. Either way, he really adds nothing to an offense. I thought that he would be better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ted got old basically I feel...

For the past 3 drafts,

Clark
Martinez
Aaron Jones
Lowry


Randall (this is debateable actually as I believe he was out of position)
Jake Ryan is debateable

King might develop into a pretty good pick by Thompson as well. Ryan has definitely performed above expectations considering he was a fourth round pick.

I thought that he was 5th. Either way, he really adds nothing to an offense. I thought that he would be better.

While Williams isn't an explosive running back like Jones there's a reason he continues to receive playing time.

 

[weeds]

I tend to think that a difference in appreciating Wolf's one more than Ted's one is that Wolf's was preceded by the Gory Years, whereas Ted's was preceded by some pretty decent seasons. Even at that, a legend?

Frankly, I think that "legend" isn't strong enough, HE, but then again I'm more prone toward superlatives than you. You've got a few more years of suffering at Lambeau than I (but I'm not far behind). I agree that Ted inherited a better situation than Wolf but it was definitely on the down-slide after Wolf turned the keys to the kingdom over to Sherman (which is STILL mind boggling to me) AND he hired Ray Rhodes. Nobody is 100% on an NFL dartboard.

I do have to agree it was time for Ted. I remember sitting at the shareholder's meeting Ted's last year and even though everything was happening 20 feet from where he was sitting, he was watching on the north end zone scoreboard with his entire body facing that scoreboard.

As for Capers, I'm not going to beat that dead horse. I give him the fact that his 2010 defense did step up at the end of 2010 giving up an average of 15 pts per game... story goes that his schemes were too complex, I don't know...never saw his playbook. All I know is that his defense gave up record yardage in 2011 and the points per game surrendered was up to 22 per.

I'll take the Super Bowl win - but even as the clock wound down and the Steelers had the ball ... I was expecting the defense from the first 3/4 of the season to reappear.

 

[Half Empty]

Ya, the last sentence sums up so many of my Packer experiences. I had to pause, ensure that the clock had run out and that the Pack still had more points. Then, I could celebrate.

 

[PackerDNA]

I think would wore Ted down the last few years was having to deal with all the extra stuff that a GM has to deal with. Now he can do only what he loves and is best at- watch tape and scout.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

TT yes. Capers yes, if only because it removed the major roadblock for people to notice MM's failures.

MM will be gone. Unless they win out, he will be gone at the end of the season. I'm not giving him a pass based on one game. ALL of last season and most of this season, he looked very bad at his job. If he didn't have AR, who knows what this season would look like. AR is the ONLY reeason we won that opener at home.

 

[Poppa San]

If he didn't have AR, who knows what this season would look like.

Without a franchise level QB, most coaches look bad. Unless the team is built around the D-line like the Giants were or Chicago now. MM wins or dies with Rodgers because that is our franchise QB. Without him, I would hope one of the other good QBs drafted since then would be in GB. If not a top pick then players like Wilson lasted into the fourth round.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Without a franchise level QB, most coaches look bad. Unless the team is built around the D-line like the Giants were or Chicago now. MM wins or dies with Rodgers because that is our franchise QB. Without him, I would hope one of the other good QBs drafted since then would be in GB. If not a top pick then players like Wilson lasted into the fourth round.

Agreed, but most coaches look competent! Last season he looked very bad. BH was a very bad QB and DK looks worse. I don't know if we'd have won ANY games without AR. Good HC's find a way to win. I don't think he does that. I think he just crosses his fingers and hope Rodgers finds a win. SanFran made a third stringer look like a starter. He was against a bad defense, but he was someone moved up from the practice squad.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Agreed, but most coaches look competent! Last season he looked very bad. BH was a very bad QB and DK looks worse. I don't know if we'd have won ANY games without AR. Good HC's find a way to win. I don't think he does that. I think he just crosses his fingers and hope Rodgers finds a win. SanFran made a third stringer look like a starter. He was against a bad defense, but he was someone moved up from the practice squad.

The Packers not having been able to win without Rodgers was mostly based on a lack of overall talent on the roster though.