Wanna watch something frustrating?

[Daryl Muellenberg]

You are going to have a hard time convincing me that YAC isn't a meaningful stat, since it shows a receivers ability to run after the catch (contact or no contact). Take Richard Rodgers and compare his YAC to Gronk. Who has the better stats? James Jones and Jeff Janis catch a pass, nobody near them, who is going to have more YAC? Now if you want to combine yards after contact, you have an even more meaningful stat.

Take a look at this and tell me it doesn't say something about YAC being meaningful. Make sure to click on the YAC tab to see the receivers that led the league.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-receiving-yards-at-the-catch-yatc/2015/

I'm not saying it's totally meaningless, I'm saying it can be subjective (like blown coverages where a receiver is wide open) where yards after contact is not as subjective. The difference between Jones and Janis is because of speed which is quite obvious, but it is still possible for Jones to have more YAC than Janis simply because of a blown coverage. Rodgers versus Gronk is that Gronk is harder to tackle which is where yards after contact is more meaningful than just yards after catch.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The reason that field goals are measured from the spot kicked is because they are placed on the ground prior to the kick and where ever the ball last hits the ground is the line of scrimmage for the kick. If a kicker where to drop kick a punt instead of punt it, it would count from the place it touched the ground.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

i wasn't telling anything, i was just adding my opinion/thoughts on maybe why punts are measured from LOS. why don't you ask the NFL or other stats recorders why they do this

maybe they should re-structure it to net yards from LOS, and gross yards from where the kick took place.

this i'm afraid is not an area of expertise, as unlike most of this forum i haven't been raised on US sports, ask me a question on the transport of dangerous goods and i can be more definitive than just offering a possible explanation

Sorry, I wasn't implying that you knew the answer or anything like that and realize it was just a possible reason why they do it. I was more or less trying to point out that they can determine where a punter punts the ball from so just because different punters take different steps shouldn't be a reason.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As far as YAC being meaningful for evaluating a receiver, I would say that is debatable.

Debate it all you want, but I will agree to totally disagree with you that YAC isn't a meaningful stat when evaluating a receiver.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

The reason that field goals are measured from the spot kicked is because they are placed on the ground prior to the kick and where ever the ball last hits the ground is the line of scrimmage for the kick. If a kicker where to drop kick a punt instead of punt it, it would count from the place it touched the ground.

Not sure I totally agree with that, but that would be an explanation. The reason I don't agree with that is let's say the qb drops the snap from center and the ball hits the ground, does that now become the LOS? If the punter drops the ball before he punts it are you saying they would count the punt yardage from where he dropped the ball?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The reason that field goals are measured from the spot kicked is because they are placed on the ground prior to the kick and where ever the ball last hits the ground is the line of scrimmage for the kick. If a kicker where to drop kick a punt instead of punt it, it would count from the place it touched the ground.

If the punter drops the ball before he punts it are you saying they would count the punt yardage from where dropped the ball?

That was what I said, yes this is the case from what I have read.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

That was what I said, yes this is the case from what I have read.

Actually you said if the ball is drop kicked it would count from that spot. I asked if a punter just dropped the ball and then picked it up and punted it (which is different than a drop kick). I had not heard of that before.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Actually you said if the ball is drop kicked it would count from that spot. I asked if a punter just dropped the ball and then picked it up and punted it (which is different than a drop kick). I had not heard of that before.

LOL....that is something you may want to research, since to me the whole debate is over a rather meaningless stat that has been kept track of consistently throughout time the same way. IMO Net punt yardage is a more important stat to concern yourself with.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

LOL....that is something you may want to research, since to me the whole debate is over a rather meaningless stat that has been kept track of consistently throughout time the same way. IMO Net punt yardage is a more important stat to concern yourself with.

I agree 100% that net punt yardage is the most important stat. I was just curious why they treat punting yardage and field goal yardage differently.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree 100% that net punt yardage is the most important stat. I was just curious why they treat punting yardage and field goal yardage differently.

May just have all started that way and for stat consistency, it remains. Back in the early days of football, drop kicks were also used to kick field goals, so quite possibly they decided to determine the length of a field goal at the point the ball was dropped/held on the ground to compare apples to apples on distances of FG's.

 

[Poppa San]

Not sure if that was a typo, but in theory the longest field goal could be from 119, not 118. There is nothing that says you have to line up exactly 7 yards behind the LOS for a field goal. The LOS could be at the 1 and the holder could set up 9 yards deep in the end zone. Of course that would mean the kicker would have to stand behind the end line at the start of the play, but I don't think there is any rule that says he has to start in the field of play. But any regular offensive play like a run or pass can only be 99 yards. But a 119 yards scoring play more than likely would come from an interception return, missed field goal return, punt or kickoff return.

Wasn't a typo. I was giving the kicker room to step into the kick. I think he needs more than almost a yard. You might get 119 if the kicker stepped back over the endline after the snap and reestablished himself before kicking the ball. Probably time consuming and get blocked though. Fairly certain all the players involved in a play have to be on the field of play at the snap. Imagine the LOS at the 20 and Gronk stepping on to the field at the other 20 right after the snap. Don't think Bellicheat wouldn't have used that loophole? Pretty sure there are a few 109 yard returns scattered throughout all levels of football.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

Wasn't a typo. I was giving the kicker room to step into the kick. I think he needs more than almost a yard. You might get 119 if the kicker stepped back over the endline after the snap and reestablished himself before kicking the ball. Probably time consuming and get blocked though. Fairly certain all the players involved in a play have to be on the field of play at the snap. Imagine the LOS at the 20 and Gronk stepping on to the field at the other 20 right after the snap. Don't think Bellicheat wouldn't have used that loophole? Pretty sure there are a few 109 yard returns scattered throughout all levels of football.

I checked the rules which state: He must move onto the field of play or the end zone as far as the inside of the field numerals prior to the snap to be a legal substitution. If he does not, and is on the field of play or end zone at the time of a legal snap, he is an illegal substitute.

According to that, a player has to be on the field or in the end zone to be legal. So it would be reasonable to say the kicker would need at least 2 yards. But since we are talking 'in theory', a kicker could take just 1 step before kicking the ball so 'in theory' 119 would be the longest. Agree that it wouldn't be at all reasonable, but neither is a 118 yard field goal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

how about this for the longest punt ever?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Half Empty]

I see your point, so why not calculate field goals from LOS since it is the same for everyone as well. It just seems odd that field goals are the only plays not calculated from LOS.

Wouldn't be all that bad, I guess, but, again, they can get the spot right as easily as the LOS. Go back, knock 7 yards off all the FGs to date, and start from there.

 

[Half Empty]

Ha! Good point, I guess I was just looking at the 8 versus 9, so yes, 109 is the longest play. Unless we were talking about Canadian football, which of course we aren't.

But a field goal is marked from where the ball is kicked to the goal post which is 10 yards deep in the end zone. So if the holder lines up 9 yard deep in his endzone, the ball would have to travel 119 yards. So in theory a field goal is the only play that can be the longest scoring play.

True, but the referenced post talked about returns, not FGs.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

True, but the referenced post talked about returns, not FGs.

The initial post was talking about the longest scoring play (not just returns) which I said could be 119 instead of 118. I then elaborated and said that it would more than likely come from a return, which I have since admitted was incorrect as returns can only be a max of 109 (forgot about the extra 10 yards required for a field goal). Still, the longest scoring play can be 119 yards (in theory).

 

[Poppa San]

Agree that it wouldn't be at all reasonable, but neither is a 118 yard field goal.

I heard that Smallville (Kansas) junior college has a do everything player (including kicker) that can do 100+ yard fieldgoals. I can't confirm it. Heard his name was Clarke Kent?

 

[sschind]

Also, it's for comparison, so as long as it's same for all punters, it's fair. They can take the square root of the distance from the center's butt, as long as they do it for everyone. The fact that it's easier for the stats guys may be a factor, too - as mentioned above, one knows where the PK is going to kick from before the play starts, whereas the P may be kicking from various distances.

Not every center has the same size butt so that wouldn't be fair. A taller center's butt is going to be farther from the line of scrimmage and maybe closer to the punter.