Tramon Williams says NFL teams caught up to Dom Capers' scheme

[Dantés]

That is a valid point.

But I would also point out that TT has drafted 3 all-pro DBs several years ago. We should not have had to use so much draft capital in the past few years. Randall and Rollins were picked to replace all pro players who were underperforming with Capers. My bet is Randall will play at a higher level for the browns than he did here.

When you think about it, Hyde, Hayward, Shields, Haha, Burnett should have been a very formidable backfield. Shields loss was a shame, but still, TT had a lot of talent there.

I agree with everything except the bit about Randall. I think that clown is going to bust in a bad way in Cleveland. He’s an idiot and he’s going from one of the best organizations in the league to the NFL’s black hole. He’s also going to an equally hapless coach. Look at how Williams deployed Peppers last season.

 

[Mondio]

I'm not just talking about our first round pick, I am saying that the Packers over the last several years have spent far more overall draft capital on the defense and yet, here we are wondering if our defense is going to be the reason we do or don't have a successful season. You have to go back to 2014 to find an impact player on offense that was drafted, Davante Adams.

I'm not going to go through the exercise, but if you used the "Draft Value Trade Chart" to assign a numerical value to the picks used by the Packers in the last 5 drafts, you would see how skewed the numbers are. If you look at what the Vikings have done in the same time period, they too have spent a large chunk of their draft capital, although less than the Packers, on the defense, they have had different results.

They have. Now let's see what happens when Harrison smith misses 1.5 years and is forced to retire and Griffin gets a shoulder injury and either of their starting DBs is hurt. Then let's see how good they do. Let's not pretend all things have been equal between the teams outside of strictly draft picks.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tt has drafted more all pro defensive players (3) over the last few years than offensive players (1). Bahtari is the only offensive all pro over the last 3 years however Haha, Hayward, and Hyde have all been 2nd team All Pro. All DBs and still the packers had one of the worst secondaries in the entire NFL last season.

So you are wrong. TT actually had more success drafting defensive talent than offensive talent.

That's a ridiculous statement to make, especially as I was talking about Thompson's entire tenure as the Packers general manager.

I think way too much is made of this wasting of high draft picks. I can count 2 that were not all that great in Datone and Worthy and in many years if a defensive guy went 1, there was a pretty high offensive guy taken in the 2nd. and it we just take rounds 1-4 and start counting, I bet it's fairly even over any 3-4 year span.

Unfortunately Thompson hasn't been able to draft an elite defensive player since Matthews in 2009 though.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

One of my issues with Capers was his lack of sideline presence. There didn't seem to be much fire going on the sideline short of a few times Daniels tried to get the guys going or Haha. I've wanted him gone for at least 5 seasons now - here's hoping that Pettine will expect more and have the players playing much smarter football.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

That's a ridiculous statement to make, especially as I was talking about Thompson's entire tenure as the Packers general manager.



Unfortunately Thompson hasn't been able to draft an elite defensive player since Matthews in 2009 though.

The deck was consistently stacked against us with having to pick late every year, but he did ok: Hyde, HAha, Hayward, Daniels at their respective picks were good choices. Giving Sam Shields a chance, yes undrafted, was also another good choice. He didn't supplement that with good free agents which I think kept our defense in the cellar.

 

[n4t]

I think it was obvious that there was a breakdown in Capers overall coaching somewhere. The confusion comes from things not being implemented properly or successfully, before the players take the field. Call it 'buy-in' or 'fire' or whatever - we just didn't have it often enough. There were broken links in the chains somewhere. Pettine is a chance to re-roll the whole situation and hopefully get a spark. He also has a pretty good base of talent to work with. Just like Capers had when he showed up. (It happens to most DC's, Amish, not just Capers - get real)

I think its also obvious that Capers had to scheme around some extremely pitiful talent many times. This may have led to a 'trying to get by' attitude throughout the defense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They have. Now let's see what happens when Harrison smith misses 1.5 years and is forced to retire and Griffin gets a shoulder injury and either of their starting DBs is hurt. Then let's see how good they do. Let's not pretend all things have been equal between the teams outside of strictly draft picks.

Are you saying our defense has been as bad as its been strictly due to injuries? I mean I get it, we lost Sam Shields, tough break, but with all of the draft picks the Packers have thrown at CB as well as other positions on defense, the defense should be able to withstand a few injuries. Saying that the Vikings couldn't withstand a hit or 2 on defense is just a guess on your part. They have lost some key players on offense over the last couple of years (Peterson, Bridgewater, Bradford, Cook, Kalil) and seemed to recover.

 

[Jerellh528]

Excited to see what Pettine can do with this defense. Our starting secondary has 2 first rounders(Haha,Alexander) and 3 second rounders(king,Jackson,jones). We should have the talent to turn this pass D around.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Excited to see what Pettine can do with this defense. Our starting secondary has 2 first rounders(Haha,Alexander) and 3 second rounders(king,Jackson,jones). We should have the talent to turn this pass D around.

Don't forget about Randall and Rollins, also 1st and 2nd rounders.

 

[Mondio]

Are you saying our defense has been as bad as its been strictly due to injuries? I mean I get it, we lost Sam Shields, tough break, but with all of the draft picks the Packers have thrown at CB as well as other positions on defense, the defense should be able to withstand a few injuries. Saying that the Vikings couldn't withstand a hit or 2 on defense is just a guess on your part. They have lost some key players on offense over the last couple of years (Peterson, Bridgewater, Bradford, Cook, Kalil) and seemed to recover.

No, that's not what I said at all. And still the Vikings have not had near the success the Packers have in the past decade.

No guess needed. They lost some guys for parts of games and it showed. May I suggest a repeat of their last 2 games played.

 

[Jerellh528]

Don't forget about Randall and Rollins, also 1st and 2nd rounders.

Didn’t forget, was mostly talking about the starters. Though, I am hoping Rollins can bounce back from injury and provide some quality depth for us at either cb or safety! It’s peculiar what the reasoning ted had for drafting 2 moreso safety prospects in the first two rounds and tried to covert them to cbs. Either way I have much higher hopes for the two CBs we got this draft.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Shocking! A guy that didn't play in Caper' scheme recently has profound insight!

NFL offenses caught up to being able to beat a defense with terrible corners and no linebackers with coverage ability. Who would have thought?! Scheme doesn't matter with the corners and safeties this team trotted out the past two years.

 

[bigbubbatd]

So was it everywhere that capers coached that his talent kept getting worse? Because everywhere he coached after Pittsburgh his defenses started ranked well but ended up in the bottom third of the league by the end of his tenure. That tells me it is more than just lack of talent that did him in.

 

[Dantés]

So was it everywhere that capers coached that his talent kept getting worse? Because everywhere he coached after Pittsburgh his defenses started ranked well but ended up in the bottom third of the league by the end of his tenure. That tells me it is more than just lack of talent that did him in.

That’s typical of guys whose defenses are exotic but relatively static. Their lack of predictability makes them effective early, but over time they get figured out and exposed.

 

[pacmaniac]

Tramon stating the obvious.


https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...ers-tramon-williams-dom-capers-nfl/581444002/

The most glaring evidence of this is the two playoff losses to the Niners when Kaepernick and that read option offense ran roughshod over the defense, and continued into the Seattle meltdown when the Seahawks made their comeback.

I said it before and I'll say it again - I wanted Capers gone as much as anyone, but he was not to blame for the Seattle debacle. In fact the first 55 minutes of that game was possibly the best defensive performance in Packers history, and up there in NFL history too.

Capers had nothing to do with the Packers scoring a measly 6 points off FIVE turnovers.

Capers had nothing to do with the fake FG touchdown.

Capers had nothing to do with Burnett sliding after the last interception.

Capers had nothing to do with Bostick.

Capers had nothing to do with Ha Ha's zero inch vertical leap.

 

[rmontro]

I said it before and I'll say it again - I wanted Capers gone as much as anyone, but he was not to blame for the Seattle debacle. In fact the first 55 minutes of that game was possibly the best defensive performance in Packers history, and up there in NFL history too.

I've always said this about that Seattle debacle: Everybody had a part in blowing that game (I'll exclude Crosby). The whole team was dedicated to that loss.

As for Capers, and the defense: Sports history is full of examples of inferior teams performing well right up to the point of winning the game. Then, when crunch time comes, and the game is on the line, they blow it. You see this over and over and over again in championship level sports, not just football. It's great that they played well for 55 minutes, but that doesn't really impress me at all.

 

[PikeBadger]

That’s typical of guys whose defenses are exotic but relatively static. Their lack of predictability makes them effective early, but over time they get figured out and exposed.

Totally agree. Capers imo didn’t effectively utilize and take advantage of his players individual strengths and in retrospect, this goes all the way back to 2011 when Raji’s strengths were mitigated by moving him into a position that his skills were effectively shelved. Our 2011 defense had the same players as the 2010 defense but the results were radically different. Then as we saw later, guys like Hayward and Hyde looked like average NFL journeymen until they left town and suddenly became pro bowl calibre players. The scouts knew these guys had talent and skills but it’s clear to me now that Capers misused them. We’ve seen flashes from all 3 of the previously mentioned defenders while in Green Bay, but they weren’t consistently put in positions to succeed. I’m not sure if Randall will be a great success in Cleveland or not but, it was clear to me that he possessed the greatest play-making ability of his peers among the defensive backs. It will be interesting to see if he mentally matures and is used in a way to maximize his skills and abilities.
Schemes have to be constantly tweaked because someone will eventually figure out how to beat it. Capers and McCarthy/Rodgers are slow to figure that out imo.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

One of my issues with Capers was his lack of sideline presence.

I don't think Capers being up in the booth had anything to do with the unit struggling.

No, that's not what I said at all. And still the Vikings have not had near the success the Packers have in the past decade.

The Vikings have had a better defense than the Packers for several seasons though.

Our 2011 defense had the same players as the 2010 defense but the results were radically different.

Aside of All-Pro safety Nick Collins who suffered a career ending injury in week 2 of the 2011 season.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I like Tramon, always held him in high regard as a person.

What he's saying about Coach Capers may very well be dead-on accurate.

All the same, I believe he'd have been better off not saying it. Why talk bad about someone who's no longer here?

Better to look forward and stay positive, IMHO.

My 2 cents.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I like Tramon, always held him in high regard as a person.

What he's saying about Coach Capers may very well be dead-on accurate.

All the same, I believe he'd have been better off not saying it. Why talk bad about someone who's no longer here?

Better to look forward and stay positive, IMHO.

My 2 cents.

I was wondering the same and concluded that this is a guy that has been removed long enough from Capers that it doesn't sound as much like kicking him as he walks out the door. Williams may have been just trying to motivate his teammates and fans into believing that change is good.

 

[gbgary]

I was wondering the same and concluded that this is a guy that has been removed long enough from Capers that it doesn't sound as much like kicking him as he walks out the door. Williams may have been just trying to motivate his teammates and fans into believing that change is good.

trying to deflect blame from (his now new) teammates.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

trying to deflect blame from (his now new) teammates.

that and did he really say anything we all weren't saying or thinking? I am sure Williams has some good things to say about Capers, but like a lot of media quotes, some will run with the little that was quoted and say Williams was trying to fully discredit Dom.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

It's a pity our players never caught up with his schemes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's a pity our players never caught up with his schemes.

No but at least the coaches and players from other teams did.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

No but at least the coaches and players from other teams did.

I don't dispute that statement bud