The other crowd that has gone silent…

[Dantés]

Yesterday’s game saw the Packers use more under center offense than any team in any game this season.

People don’t want to hear it, but Rodgers exerted a lot of negative influence on the offense.

 

[swhitset]

Yesterday’s game saw the Packers use more under center offense than any team in any game this season.

People don’t want to hear it, but Rodgers exerted a lot of negative influence on the offense.

I think, at this point most people (including me) are ready for those facts.

 

[longtimefan]

Yesterday’s game saw the Packers use more under center offense than any team in any game this season.

People don’t want to hear it, but Rodgers exerted a lot of negative influence on the offense.

Even tho I'm in Phoenix area. I listen to 97.3 the game..

One radio guy. Forgot who. Made a comment that THIS TEAM seems more exciting, and more happy to play then past years

 

[BrokenArrow]

Even tho I'm in Phoenix area. I listen to 97.3 the game..

One radio guy. Forgot who. Made a comment that THIS TEAM seems more exciting, and more happy to play then past years

This team has that "band of brothers" vibe more than any other I can remember, bar none.

 

[Poppa San]

Even tho I'm in Phoenix area. I listen to 97.3 the game..

One radio guy. Forgot who. Made a comment that THIS TEAM seems more exciting, and more happy to play then past years

This team has less to lose and can play freely. All season they had no real pressure except to keep their job. Even now it is house money. Come in as favorites for playoffs / titles and you play to not lose. Case in point every Favre and Rodgers led GB team since their respective SBs.

 

[tynimiller]

Yesterday’s game saw the Packers use more under center offense than any team in any game this season.

People don’t want to hear it, but Rodgers exerted a lot of negative influence on the offense.

This is NOT BEING NOTICED OR DISCUSSED ENOUGH

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I remember quite a few folks over the past couple years screaming that MLF cannot coach and is possibly our biggest issue…

I think doing what he did this year, with this team, shredded with departures and injuries to all pros (Bakh, Jaire, Jones) and others…

…overcome a Barry at times defense being terrible…

If he was as bad as some of you have claimed this season doesn’t play out this way.

The offense was cooking against Dallas for sure, and it's hard to argue with the game plan. Yes, I'd say MLF has done a pretty solid job this season. It took a little time for it all to come together, which was to be expected with all the youth on offense. Come together it has, however, and that does not happen without good coaching.

 

[Krabs]

Need more like you and @Krabs on the board, fully willing to share thoughts, and if wrong fully willing to admit it. Makes a better forum.

Now LaFluer still may meet an end of grace if he continues to lack the accountability part of coaching with his staff but there is something to say with never doing things in season. Tomlin has never done such a thing till this year and I think he is a good one to emulate

I actually think that MLF has gotten more involved in the defense. He let Barry have complete control of the defense. After the Bucs game he did say he was going to be more involved. We don't know what's going on behind closed doors, but since the Panthers game they have stepped it up a notch. I oh so want Barry to still go though. I want a tough minded defensive coordinator.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I actually think that MLF has gotten more involved in the defense. He let Barry have complete control of the defense. After the Bucs game he did say he was going to be more involved. We don't know what's going on behind closed doors, but since the Panthers game they have stepped it up a notch. I oh so want Barry to still go though. I want a tough minded defensive coordinator.

I think that depends on the degree to which MLF has inserted himself into the D. If he simply had a come to Jesus talk with Barry and Barry adjusted on his own, there's a good chance he ends up coming back. If MLF had to go in and tell him exactly what changes need to be made (more blitzing on 3rd down, no more soft cushions at corner, mix it up more, etc) then I think he's still gone. Having Savage back making coverage adjustments has certainly had an effect.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I still want Joe Barry gone after the season. I have seen enough no matter what happens next week. They gave up 30 points to Carolina and then they got shut out twice. The Minnesota game was against a 4th string qb without Hockinson. Against Chicago with Fields they did play better but a lot of that had to do with the offense holding the ball. The first 26 minutes against the Cowboys didn't look like the Packers because they played tough man-to-man more frequently and it helped. The final 34 minutes of that game was the usual break but don't bend defense. What is glaring is that on offense, players are developing. On defense, not so much! Which high draft pick in the past 5 years on the defense look like they could even be in the discussion for a pro bowl? Nobody! Rashon Gary has flatlined as an average player. He was a mediocre 28th in sacks this year. At pick #12, that's a huge failure of draft and develop. Looks like Walker and Wyatt are similar in that they briefly flash but lack consistency at making big plays. Stokes is frail and Nan Ness is a question but appears to be on the same mediocre track as Gary. MLF deserves credit in molding the offense. What about the defense and special teams? Just the opposite. I've never called for a knee jerk firing of MFL but he has huge blind spots that will thwart this team and waste Jordan Love's rise if he persists in keeping Joe Barry around next year.

 

[PikeBadger]

The offense was cooking against Dallas for sure, and it's hard to argue with the game plan. Yes, I'd say MLF has done a pretty solid job this season. It took a little time for it all to come together, which was to be expected with all the youth on offense. Come together it has, however, and that does not happen without good coaching.

True, but his veteran players weren't doing him a lot of favors on game day either in the first two months of the season. They were making way too many mental mistakes that were egregious and were hurting the team. Inexcusable imo.

 

[milani]

This is NOT BEING NOTICED OR DISCUSSED ENOUGH

I like it. I wish we used it against some of the lesser teams this season. The 9ers are disciplined and can adjust accordingly. But use it anyway.

 

[mradtke66]

Yesterday’s game saw the Packers use more under center offense than any team in any game this season.

People don’t want to hear it, but Rodgers exerted a lot of negative influence on the offense.

I don't see under-center or not much of a problem.

Part of so much gun in 2023 was likely due to the broken finger. Taking a direct snap hurts in that situation.

The Packers alone this year played out of gun a lot. It could certainly end up being more of their identity going forward. It might have also been a specific game plan to attack the Cowboys.

 

[Dantés]

I don't see under-center or not much of a problem.

Part of so much gun in 2023 was likely due to the broken finger. Taking a direct snap hurts in that situation.

The Packers alone this year played out of gun a lot. It could certainly end up being more of their identity going forward. It might have also been a specific game plan to attack the Cowboys.

Every team plays out of gun a lot. But much of what LaFleur's offense likes to incorporate-- such as under-center, motion, true play-action-- Rodgers was resistant to. He was slow to adopt LaFleur's principles in 2019 and the offensive improvement was minimal. The team had leverage in 2020 and 2021, Rodgers more readily accept the offense, and it exploded. In 2022, he pulled things back in his preferred direction and it regressed.

He was holding LaFleur back by the end.

 

[mradtke66]

Every team plays out of gun a lot. But much of what LaFleur's offense likes to incorporate-- such as under-center, motion, true play-action-- Rodgers was resistant to. He was slow to adopt LaFleur's principles in 2019 and the offensive improvement was minimal. The team had leverage in 2020 and 2021, Rodgers more readily accept the offense, and it exploded. In 2022, he pulled things back in his preferred direction and it regressed.

He was holding LaFleur back by the end.

I still don't think this was leverage, just normal NFL lifecycle stuff.

2019 was expected, not because of anything Rodgers did/didn't want to do, but because it was a new system that historically takes quarterbacks time to adjust to. Matt Ryan had a similar rough 1st year under Shannahan, but promptly had a career year in his second and won an MVP.

2022 was the result of losing our skills players and many of the players we did have being hurt (Watson) or just not good (Watkins.) I have seen the interviews where Rodgers expressed a distaste for motion in 2022, but it reads to me as "our guys are ******** up, lets simplify until we get the basics down" and less "I don't want to play that way."

 

[Dantés]

I still don't think this was leverage, just normal NFL lifecycle stuff.

2019 was expected, not because of anything Rodgers did/didn't want to do, but because it was a new system that historically takes quarterbacks time to adjust to. Matt Ryan had a similar rough 1st year under Shannahan, but promptly had a career year in his second and won an MVP.

2022 was the result of losing our skills players and many of the players we did have being hurt (Watson) or just not good (Watkins.) I have seen the interviews where Rodgers expressed a distaste for motion in 2022, but it reads to me as "our guys are ******** up, lets simplify until we get the basics down" and less "I don't want to play that way."

This is my biggest regret when it comes to Rodgers getting injured this year. The way he chose to play in New York would have either vindicated me or shown me to be incorrect. Bah.

Anyways, I remain 100% convinced that he resisted key elements of the offense because he didn't like them. I'm not saying he's some kind of villain or he tanked the team on purpose. I just think that he still believes he can be that big-brained, elite playmaker who doesn't need structure and schemed options.

 

[milani]

I still don't think this was leverage, just normal NFL lifecycle stuff.

2019 was expected, not because of anything Rodgers did/didn't want to do, but because it was a new system that historically takes quarterbacks time to adjust to. Matt Ryan had a similar rough 1st year under Shannahan, but promptly had a career year in his second and won an MVP.

2022 was the result of losing our skills players and many of the players we did have being hurt (Watson) or just not good (Watkins.) I have seen the interviews where Rodgers expressed a distaste for motion in 2022, but it reads to me as "our guys are ******** up, lets simplify until we get the basics down" and less "I don't want to play that way."

If he thought they were ****** up in 2022 he would have really seen how ****** up they were for a good part of 2023. We had even more inexperience.

 

[mradtke66]

If he thought they were ****** up in 2022 he would have really seen how ****** up they were for a good part of 2023. We had even more inexperience.

Heh. You're not wrong. Early 2023 was a mess. Watson hurt again and even more youth.

The biggest difference to me is Reed and the games where Watson is healthy. Yes, Doubs, Melton, Wicks are all playing well, but it's those two (imho) that are going to make the offense go week in and week out the next few years.

 

[milani]

Heh. You're not wrong. Early 2023 was a mess. Watson hurt again and even more youth.

The biggest difference to me is Reed and the games where Watson is healthy. Yes, Doubs, Melton, Wicks are all playing well, but it's those two (imho) that are going to make the offense go week in and week out the next few years.

If you throw in the TE position we may be looking at a Big 5 like we had in 2011 next year.

 

[Dantés]

If he thought they were ****** up in 2022 he would have really seen how ****** up they were for a good part of 2023. We had even more inexperience.

Yeah, the loss of Adams made it even more important that Rodgers lean into the structure/design of the offense, but he did the exact opposite. He exacerbated the loss in the way he reacted to it.

 

[mradtke66]

Yeah, the loss of Adams made it even more important that Rodgers lean into the structure/design of the offense, but he did the exact opposite. He exacerbated the loss in the way he reacted to it.

Again, I don't put that much blame on him. The WR/TE situation finally got bad enough and the offense floundered. We didn't have a good motion/jet man for most of the year. The hand injury drove the offense as a whole into shotgun near exclusively.

Watson got healthy and the whole offense looked better.

I find it highly unlikely that Rodgers, who for being weird and goofy as he is and can be, decided to YOLO the offense that had worked so well for 2 years and won him 2 more MVPs. I understand that people aren't always rational actors, but I don't think anyone is that actively foolish.

 

[Dantés]

Again, I don't put that much blame on him. The WR/TE situation finally got bad enough and the offense floundered. We didn't have a good motion/jet man for most of the year. The hand injury drove the offense as a whole into shotgun near exclusively.

Watson got healthy and the whole offense looked better.

I find it highly unlikely that Rodgers, who for being weird and goofy as he is and can be, decided to YOLO the offense that had worked so well for 2 years and won him 2 more MVPs. I understand that people aren't always rational actors, but I don't think anyone is that actively foolish.

I think it's plausible that, in his own mind, he was doing something rational and overall helpful, but he was sincerely wrong about that and it ended up hurting the team.

 

[mradtke66]

I think it's plausible that, in his own mind, he was doing something rational and overall helpful, but he was sincerely wrong about that and it ended up hurting the team.

Possible, but the team got better with less Watkins, more Watson. I point to the roster talent level answer because it's simpler.

 

[Dantés]

Possible, but the team got better with less Watkins, more Watson. I point to the roster talent level answer because it's simpler.

Two things can be true at once.

Watson also didn’t have to play behind Watson early in the season. I’m guessing I know why he did though.

 

[mradtke66]

Two things can be true at once.

Watson also didn’t have to play behind Watson early in the season. I’m guessing I know why he did though.

Not picking on you, cuz I get confused with this two too--can you clarify who played behind who?

Assuming you mean what I think you mean....

I also don't think Watson started behind Watkins. Watson was the target of Rodgers' first pass of 2022. He was then hurt for most of the next 9 games.