The Amari Rodgers Thread

PikeBadger

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I don't fail to acknowledge it, I think it points even more to the fact they should replace this guy as a return man because they have very little faith in him if he's not even green lighted to return in this situation.

It's not going to ever get any easier than that.
Someone screwed up, or they have very little faith in him.
We needed the ball at that time to drain the clock on offense. We didn't need an extra 10 yards as badly as we needed absolute risk free possession. I'm pretty certain he was under orders to fair catch the punt if it wasn't close to the sidelines.
 

Mondio

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We needed the ball at that time to drain the clock on offense. We didn't need an extra 10 yards as badly as we needed absolute risk free possession. I'm pretty certain he was under orders to fair catch the punt if it wasn't close to the sidelines.
Maybe, which just goes to my point. If you don't have someone back there that has a green light to do something with that punt, keep looking for one. 3 blockers, 1 defender, nothing but space. Had an easy 10 to outside the 20 and step OB. Or break it back and give yourself up before you hit that first wave of defenders. There are plenty of ways to turn that perfect scenario into decent field position without taking any big risks.
You just aren't going to have it any easier than it was right there.
 

tynimiller

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Maybe, which just goes to my point. If you don't have someone back there that has a green light to do something with that punt, keep looking for one. 3 blockers, 1 defender, nothing but space. Had an easy 10 to outside the 20 and step OB. Or break it back and give yourself up before you hit that first wave of defenders. There are plenty of ways to turn that perfect scenario into decent field position without taking any big risks.
You just aren't going to have it any easier than it was right there.

Devin "Freaking" Hester even took fair catches in situations. Deion...all of them. I am not saying that was the case there, all though I tend to believe it was.
 

Mondio

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Devin "Freaking" Hester even took fair catches in situations. Deion...all of them. I am not saying that was the case there, all though I tend to believe it was.
And when amari fumble Rodgers starts looking like Hester on the rest of his returns maybe I won’t say anything.

Capable return men aren’t or shouldn’t be, handcuffed to bad decisions just because. Coaches give the good ones some latitude to take a gimme when it presents itself
 

PackerRyche

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You guys are getting lost in the weeds of this one fair catch play (I know I cited it as an example, but only that). My larger point is you can use a great player in a returner's role as well as their "main" job and make it work. Why not put your best chance at a big play out there? I don't know who that is, but it isn't Amari Rodgers. Many games have turned on that big play and we have essentially taken it off the table.
 

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I'm cool with a fair catch 99% of the time. I hold my breath every time he is back there. I still have no clue what our scouting department saw in this guy.
 

Heyjoe4

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You guys are getting lost in the weeds of this one fair catch play (I know I cited it as an example, but only that). My larger point is you can use a great player in a returner's role as well as their "main" job and make it work. Why not put your best chance at a big play out there? I don't know who that is, but it isn't Amari Rodgers. Many games have turned on that big play and we have essentially taken it off the table.
Fair point. Although the more I think about it, Packers’ ball, just under 6 minutes left, 8 point lead, risky returner. It all adds up to a fair catch

It also points out the Packers need a better return guy. With Rodgers, it’s a question if he’ll even catch the fair catch. That’s not acceptable. I gotta believe Gluten and Bisaccia are working hard to find or make a deal for a returner.
 

Heyjoe4

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I'm cool with a fair catch 99% of the time. I hold my breath every time he is back there. I still have no clue what our scouting department saw in this guy.
I know. Every time I see him line up for a punt return I’m like, WTF! No! I can’t believe this will go on for long.
 

tynimiller

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And when amari fumble Rodgers starts looking like Hester on the rest of his returns maybe I won’t say anything.

Capable return men aren’t or shouldn’t be, handcuffed to bad decisions just because. Coaches give the good ones some latitude to take a gimme when it presents itself

It is never a bad decision in some cases to NOT risk returning and fumbling. Time expiration was massive when this one happened. I don't know if I'd have put in the "fair catch only" call but I understand the logic regardless of who my return man is.
 

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I only see a few possibilities for the situation that is being discussed.

1. Amari was *not* given an order to fair catch the ball and he simply chose to do so. One might give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that perhaps he was just playing it safe and not wanting to risk anything given the game situation, but to be frank I don't think he's earned that benefit of the doubt yet and hasn't exactly shown himself to be that type of heads-up player to be able to process/evaluate and make that sort of decision on the fly like that by himself.

If this is the case (that he wasn't told to fair catch no matter what) then it suggests that he is either a.) playing scared or b.) struggles to read the game to such a degree that he apparently doesn't realize there is no opposing player anywhere near him

2. Amari *was* given an order to fair catch the ball and that's what he did. I understand the logic as it is the "safe" move but I have a couple of issues with this.
A.) First is that I don't think Amari is a particularly sure-handed returner in the first place. Maybe having him fair catch the ball is a safer prospect than "risking" a return but doesn't exactly feel like a "Sure thing" either. On the contrary for me it feels like a big mistake waiting to happen...
B.) Second is that it suggests the coaching staff has so little confidence in him that he is not given any latitude for these decisions. Yes I'm sure Hester and Deion and whoever were told to take a fair catch (and did) every now and then but I'm also sure that their coaches probably also communicated that they could try a return if they saw a big opening/favorable conditions opening up.

And so it seems to me like we have arrived at a point where we are keeping a guy on the roster who contributes zero on offense and is a "just take the fair catch" guy on returns. Ironically, I don't have a huge problem with taking a fair catch here in principle (I don't particularly trust Amari to not mess something up, so I get it) but it'd be nice to have a returner where that doesn't feel like it HAS to be the only realistic option.

Like I said before: I don't have a great replacement option that immediately comes to mind (but that's not my job, either) but I guess for me it's just like...what's the point of keeping this guy around anymore? It feels to me like if he were a later-round pick or an UDFA or something he'd have been gone LONG ago. I know top-level returners are hard to come by and big game-changing returns are not terribly common either but with Amari as our returner we're basically taking that possibility off the table entirely.
 

Heyjoe4

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I only see a few possibilities for the situation that is being discussed.

1. Amari was *not* given an order to fair catch the ball and he simply chose to do so. One might give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that perhaps he was just playing it safe and not wanting to risk anything given the game situation, but to be frank I don't think he's earned that benefit of the doubt yet and hasn't exactly shown himself to be that type of heads-up player to be able to process/evaluate and make that sort of decision on the fly like that by himself.

If this is the case (that he wasn't told to fair catch no matter what) then it suggests that he is either a.) playing scared or b.) struggles to read the game to such a degree that he apparently doesn't realize there is no opposing player anywhere near him

2. Amari *was* given an order to fair catch the ball and that's what he did. I understand the logic as it is the "safe" move but I have a couple of issues with this.
A.) First is that I don't think Amari is a particularly sure-handed returner in the first place. Maybe having him fair catch the ball is a safer prospect than "risking" a return but doesn't exactly feel like a "Sure thing" either. On the contrary for me it feels like a big mistake waiting to happen...
B.) Second is that it suggests the coaching staff has so little confidence in him that he is not given any latitude for these decisions. Yes I'm sure Hester and Deion and whoever were told to take a fair catch (and did) every now and then but I'm also sure that their coaches probably also communicated that they could try a return if they saw a big opening/favorable conditions opening up.

And so it seems to me like we have arrived at a point where we are keeping a guy on the roster who contributes zero on offense and is a "just take the fair catch" guy on returns. Ironically, I don't have a huge problem with taking a fair catch here in principle (I don't particularly trust Amari to not mess something up, so I get it) but it'd be nice to have a returner where that doesn't feel like it HAS to be the only realistic option.

Like I said before: I don't have a great replacement option that immediately comes to mind (but that's not my job, either) but I guess for me it's just like...what's the point of keeping this guy around anymore? It feels to me like if he were a later-round pick or an UDFA or something he'd have been gone LONG ago. I know top-level returners are hard to come by and big game-changing returns are not terribly common either but with Amari as our returner we're basically taking that possibility off the table entirely.
I’m surprised Bisaccia is putting up with this. Well, there may be no other options. But the Packers have a shot at a SB. STs is playing better. If possible trade to get a returner. Easier said than done……
 
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Mondio

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Like a wise man said, "get 'em good or get 'em gone" he's not a wide eyed rookie. This is year 2. If he can't handle this in a week 3 match up, I want to know before we get to the money games in December and Jan and Feb.

It's sink or swim time. You can only protect a guy from himself for so long and to me, that's what giving him a "fair catch only" would be doing.

Maybe they think just bringing along slowly and building bits of confidence is what is going to get him there. I do trust our guys in charge, but I don't always like it :)
 

Heyjoe4

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Like a wise man said, "get 'em good or get 'em gone" he's not a wide eyed rookie. This is year 2. If he can't handle this in a week 3 match up, I want to know before we get to the money games in December and Jan and Feb.

It's sink or swim time. You can only protect a guy from himself for so long and to me, that's what giving him a "fair catch only" would be doing.

Maybe they think just bringing along slowly and building bits of confidence is what is going to get him there. I do trust our guys in charge, but I don't always like it :)
Well it's fine if it takes time to develop some guys. In turn though, they need to show progress. IMO Rodgers has shown nothing.
 

milani

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NFL teams definitely need players that excel on special teams. While there's no doubt they would prefer for them to have an impact on either offense or defense as well most clubs around the league have several players on their roster who hardly play snaps outside of STs.
This is so true. The season in which the Packers won SB 1 the Packers lowest man on the totem pole was a player named Red Mack. He played ST and only saw the field a few other times that season. After the SB he thanked Lombardi for letting him be a member of the team. Lombardi told him not to thank him. " You would not be a member of this team if you did not deserve to be here. "
 

milani

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We needed the ball at that time to drain the clock on offense. We didn't need an extra 10 yards as badly as we needed absolute risk free possession. I'm pretty certain he was under orders to fair catch the punt if it wasn't close to the sidelines.
He was. No turnovers. If it was not for the penalty in the end zone he had a solid punt return which could have brought us precious points and avoided the game ending drama.
 

Heyjoe4

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He was. No turnovers. If it was not for the penalty in the end zone he had a solid punt return which could have brought us precious points and avoided the game ending drama.
Yeah that turned out to be like a 30 or 40 yard penalty. The first return already had the Packers in FG range. Oh well, they still won. On to the Patriots - at home.
 
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What Im see more now is that when Amari has space, he’s pretty effective. Above average decision maker at finding space and he actually has a PR erased by penalty (not his fault) that he took all the way to the Tampa 28.

I think he’s starting to refine his art some as Returner and I’m liking that part. I would like to see us use him on some O packages to compliment ST. His blocking is also better so far this season.
 

Heyjoe4

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What Im see more now is that when Amari has space, he’s pretty effective. Above average decision maker at finding space and he actually has a PR erased by penalty (not his fault) that he took all the way to the Tampa 28.

I think he’s starting to refine his art some as Returner and I’m liking that part. I would like to see us use him on some O packages to compliment ST. His blocking is also better so far this season.
Maybe I've missed something, but he has two good returns. A 20 yard punt return against the Bears, and a great return against the Bucs negated by penalty. He looked great on that return, but it was one return. Beyond that, he fair catches a lot and doesn't show much ability to get upfield more than about 5 yards.

Maybe stats show otherwise, I'm going on intuition and what I saw. He might be the Packers best option, but I don't think he's a long-term answer at that position. As for the offense, what do you see that suggests he should take any snaps on O?

Finally, when has he had opportunities to block? He's taking virtually zero snaps on offense so I don't get how his blocking is improving.

I do wish he would improve. IMO he still looks like the same player from last year, and mostly ineffective.
 

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2021: 20 punts returned for a total of 166 yards (8.3 yards per punt return); long of 23 yards
11 kickoffs returned for a total of 199 yards (18.1 yards per return); long of 27 yards

2022: 6 punts returned for a total of 53 yards (8.8 yards per return); long of 20 yards
2 kickoffs returned for 38 yards (19.0 yards per return); long of 24 yards.

By my count (if I'm remembering right and doing the math right, lol) his return that was negated by penalty was approx. 30 yards. Swap that in and it moves his 2022 numbers to 6 punts returned for 69 yards (11.5 yards per return) and a long of ~30 yards.

As it stands he is currently 13th in the league in yards/punt return and last year was 36th. So in that sense it looks like a big improvement, but given the small sample size we have thus far this season I suspect that ranking of 13th will likely drop as the season progresses, barring some big improvements.
 

Heyjoe4

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2021: 20 punts returned for a total of 166 yards (8.3 yards per punt return); long of 23 yards
11 kickoffs returned for a total of 199 yards (18.1 yards per return); long of 27 yards

2022: 6 punts returned for a total of 53 yards (8.8 yards per return); long of 20 yards
2 kickoffs returned for 38 yards (19.0 yards per return); long of 24 yards.

By my count (if I'm remembering right and doing the math right, lol) his return that was negated by penalty was approx. 30 yards. Swap that in and it moves his 2022 numbers to 6 punts returned for 69 yards (11.5 yards per return) and a long of ~30 yards.

As it stands he is currently 13th in the league in yards/punt return and last year was 36th. So in that sense it looks like a big improvement, but given the small sample size we have thus far this season I suspect that ranking of 13th will likely drop as the season progresses, barring some big improvements.
Thanks very much. Much better to have stats.

He is, at best, an average or below average returner. I’ve only seen him fumble once, ball security seems good. Just gotta believe there’s already a returner on the roster who is better. Rodgers takes up a roster spot as a STs specialist. But he’s not that special.
 

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His ball security is one of the things that has made me most nervous.
 

Heyjoe4

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His ball security is one of the things that has made me most nervous.
Gotcha. Yeah I mean overall he just doesn't look comfortable on the field. I have no doubt he was a very good college player or he wouldn't have gone in the 3rd round. Some guys just can't make the jump. Well, they're young, barely 20 years old in most cases. I kinda remember what it was like being 20. Like most, I had a helluva lot to learn.
 

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Yeah that turned out to be like a 30 or 40 yard penalty. The first return already had the Packers in FG range. Oh well, they still won. On to the Patriots - at home.
I thought it was worth the block effort. That short of a snap makes it very hard to punt effectively. Would have loved to see that ball go out of the back of the end zone for 2 points.
 
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Maybe I've missed something, but he has two good returns. A 20 yard punt return against the Bears, and a great return against the Bucs negated by penalty. He looked great on that return, but it was one return.
I don’t care as much about 1 return. I want to see a guy clip a double digit average, either that or score. He said 13th or better (if he included the 30 yard return) so I’m not sure how you equate him average or worse. 11.9 average would put him as one of the best PR leaguewide (albeit in limited) and there’s 32 teams so how is 13th below average?


As for the offense, what do you see that suggests he should take any snaps on O?

When I said I’d like to see him get more time in the offense, I meant I’d like to see more usage than just Returner. He’s a 3rd rounder and he’s in year 2 (albeit early) and should be able to handle an increased workload in O sub packages. Actually I thought he looked pretty good both in camp and PS, I’m not sure if he spit in someone’s face or what.
Finally, when has he had opportunities to block? He's taking virtually zero snaps on offense so I don't get how his blocking is improving.
I’m not sure why I wrote that?
I had to reread it 3 times because it made zero sense to me also. Lol.
I’ve never even seen him block I don’t even know why I write that it’s like I was discussing another player. You’re exactly right Retract that last part about blocking it’s like I went mentally rogue. It’s pretty bad when I disagree with something I posted myself! :barefoot:
 
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Heyjoe4

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I don’t care as much about 1 return. I want to see a guy clip a double digit average, either that or score. He said 13th or better (if he included the 30 yard return) so I’m not sure how you equate him average or worse. 11.9 average would put him as one of the best PR leaguewide (albeit in limited) and there’s 32 teams so how is 13th below average?


As for the offense, what do you see that suggests he should take any snaps on O?

When I said I’d like to see him get more time in the offense, I meant I’d like to see more usage than just Returner. He’s a 3rd rounder and he’s in year 2 (albeit early) and should be able to handle an increased workload in O sub packages. Actually I thought he looked pretty good both in camp and PS, I’m not sure if he spit in someone’s face or what.

I’m not sure why I wrote that?
I had to reread it 3 times because it made zero sense to me also. Lol.
I’ve never even seen him block I don’t even know why I write that it’s like I was discussing another player. You’re exactly right Retract that last part about blocking it’s like I went mentally rogue. It’s pretty bad when I disagree with something I posted myself! :barefoot:
He's 13th after 3 games. Last year for a full season he was 36th, which you don't mention. 3 is not an adequate sample size. I'm just saying, he's a below average returner who does nothing on offense. Nothing. He's still in GB because he was a third round pick. And he doesn't pass the eye test. There is nothing special about the way he runs. He doesn't even follow his blocks well. Finally, he's done nothing to establish trade value - not even for a 7th round conditional pick.

The Packers will probably win the next three games without the need for a great returner. They do seem rare. But even that's not the point. If they get to mid-season and he hasn't improved my guess is they'll find someone else to return punts, as they did last year with... I think his last name was Moore and he was much better. And finally, Bisaccia doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who will tolerate this for long.

NBD on the blocking comment. We all do stuff like that. Maybe you were thinking of Lazard. That guy can block.
 

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