Studs n Duds Packers Vs Lions: There was a Football Game?

[Carl]

Do you really think that these gripes would be surfacing if the Packers didn't lay eggs against the Bears, Eagles, Giants, and Vikings as well? It's not one game, it's 5. Today's performance was completely consistent with those games. It just looked worse because they were playing a better team.

I've been a supporter of TT and MM but I think these past 5 games might just be the emporer-has-no-clothes moment for one or both of those. Lots of parallels between recent Packers teams and the 2000's Indianapolis Colts. One Super Bowl win and lots of blown opportunities. When Manning went down in 2009, everyone realized that it was really a badly constructed/coached team that was kept up by the play of an amazing quarterback. To no one's surprise, both the GM and Coach didn't survive the offseason. I don't think that happens to TT and MM, but it's hard for me to really see how the Packers play without Rodgers isn't a similar indication.

The Packers played with their 4th option at QB today. No team in the league is successful having to do that.

Yes, the defense didn't play well, but the offense couldn't stay on the field to help them out.

 

[rodell330]

Aaron Rodgers has covered our butts and now without him we have been exposed. This is a bad team on defense, to many holes there. Raji was nowhere to be found today either smh. Cant defend him anymore. Burnett? He is just a guy,hawk is just a guy, Pickett is just a guy, we have to many off those. Bums..overpaid bums

 

[mkonyn]

That mustache that Rodgers is sporting on the sideline: Stud

 

[longtimefan]

Aaron Rodgers has covered our butts and now without him we have been exposed. This is a bad team on defense, to many holes there. Raji was nowhere to be found today either smh. Cant defend him anymore. Burnett? He is just a guy,hawk is just a guy, pcikett is just a guy,we have to many off those. Bums..overpaid bums

How did Rodgers playing make our run def be #5?

 

[mkonyn]

How did Rodgers playing make our run def be #5?

You have to admit some of the defense success comes from Rodgers keeping a game close. Not all credit goes to him, but when a game is close (within 1-2 TDs) a team is far more likely to throw the ball. When it's a blow out like it has been all the opposing offense does is hand the ball off to eat up clock, thus running defense stat is destroyed. They are all very entertwined stats.

 

[gatorpack]

Rodgers and Crosby were the only studs today.

 

[longtimefan]

You have to admit some of the defense success comes from Rodgers keeping a game close. Not all credit goes to him, but when a game is close (within 1-2 TDs) a team is far more likely to throw the ball. When it's a blow out like it has been all the opposing offense does is hand the ball off to eat up clock, thus running defense stat is destroyed. They are all very entertwined stats.

I get that..but they stopped good rb when games were close as well..

Gore 21 for 44 yards
Bush 13 for 44
Rice 14 for 34
AP 13 for 60 yards

What happened that made RB get more yards..

 

[mkonyn]

@longtimepackerfan
I'd actually be interested to see the number of carries avg last year or even this year up to Rodgers going out compared to when Rodgers isn't playing. I'm at the bar on my phone so I can't look it up, but I may agree with you if there isn't much difference.

As for rice, look at his stats this year, 2 good games but the rest aren't anything special.

Gore is good but you'd have to take the entire rushing armada, not just gore; too many ppl sharing carries.

AP I will agree with you, I think we keyed in on him knowing they didn't have a passing play over 10 yards in the play book. Still, that was a big shocker.

Bush I haven't looked into. Perhaps I'll have a better argument tomorrow.

Edit: last thought, did the carry numbers increase or decrease on close games? I guess my point was a shootout drives passing, a tie game where we are throwing great still forces opponents to throw. You gotta remember my original post said Rodgers absence was a partial reason, not an entire reason.

 

[jaybadger82]

Do you really think that these gripes would be surfacing if the Packers didn't lay eggs against the Bears, Eagles, Giants, and Vikings as well? It's not one game, it's 5. Today's performance was completely consistent with those games. It just looked worse because they were playing a better team.

I've been a supporter of TT and MM but I think these past 5 games might just be the emporer-has-no-clothes moment for one or both of those. Lots of parallels between recent Packers teams and the 2000's Indianapolis Colts. One Super Bowl win and lots of blown opportunities. When Manning went down in 2011, everyone realized that it was really a badly constructed/coached team that was kept up by the play of an amazing quarterback. To no one's surprise, both the GM and Coach didn't survive the offseason. I don't think that happens to TT and MM, but it's hard for me to really see how the Packers play without Rodgers isn't a similar indication.

This gets at it for me right now. It's apparent Rodgers covered up many weaknesses for this team. The roster can't be fixed overnight.

The coaching staff is mediocre at best. Compare these past five weeks to the 2008 Patriots when Brady was lost for the season.

How did Rodgers playing make our run def be #5?

...by sustaining drives, thus limiting the defense's time on the field. Duh.

 

[longtimefan]

@longtimepackerfan
I'd actually be interested to see the number of carries avg last year or even this year up to Rodgers going out compared to when Rodgers isn't playing. I'm at the bar on my phone so I can't look it up, but I may agree with you if there isn't much difference.

As for rice, look at his stats this year, 2 good games but the rest aren't anything special.

Gore is good but you'd have to take the entire rushing armada, not just gore; too many ppl sharing carries.

AP I will agree with you, I think we keyed in on him knowing they didn't have a passing play over 10 yards in the play book. Still, that was a big shocker.

Bush I haven't looked into. Perhaps I'll have a better argument tomorrow.

Edit: last thought, did the carry numbers increase or decrease on close games? I guess my point was a shootout drives passing, a tie game where we are throwing great still forces opponents to throw. You gotta remember my original post said Rodgers absence was a partial reason, not an entire reason.

Washington as a team 17 carries 108 yards right now, they are #1 in total rushing yards
Gore 21 for 44 yards--- team 34 carries 90 yards tied for 5th entire team
Bush 13 for 44 yards--- team 19 carries 64 yards tied for 15th entire team
Rice 14 for 34 yards---- team 22 carries 47 yards 27th entire team
AP 13 for 60 yards--- team 19 carries 111 yards 11th entire team
Bengals as a team 24 carries 82 yards 21st entire team


3 top 10 teams in rushing that we did pretty well against

I didnt look into if rushes dropped off at end of game..

BTW, that name isnt me lol

I think that is my brother but he hasnt posted here in years

 

[longtimefan]

...by sustaining drives, thus limiting the defense's time on the field. Duh.

Yes I know this..Duh

I have been having a debate with a few posters who think our defensive issue can't be linked to our offenses 3 and outs

I have been trying to gather opinions on the subject DUH

I say that since Rodgers has been out they are on the field to much, which in turn gets them tired sooner..

Sitton mentioned this in same interview where he called the Lions dirty players...

Surely if a Packer player says it, there has to be some truth..But some posters dont feel it is a valid excuse

 

[FrankRizzo]

Best sight for us in today's game, IMO:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[jaybadger82]

Yes I know this..Duh

I have been having a debate with a few posters who think our defensive issue can't be linked to our offenses 3 and outs

I have been trying to gather opinions on the subject DUH

I say that since Rodgers has been out they are on the field to much, which in turn gets them tired sooner..

Sitton mentioned this in same interview where he called the Lions dirty players...

Surely if a Packer player says it, there has to be some truth..But some posters dont feel it is a valid excuse

Ah, yeah, I think trying to isolate this team's problems by pointing to the offense or to the defense in a vacuum is a mistake. They affect one another.

IMO, the problem with our Packers is that we're entirely too dependent on a single player...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I get that..but they stopped good rb when games were close as well..

Gore 21 for 44 yards
Bush 13 for 44
Rice 14 for 34
AP 13 for 60 yards

What happened that made RB get more yards..

Lack of depth on the dline. Think it was the Eagles game that Pickett got injured in and the next game that Jolly got hurt in. Also add in a one handed CM3.

 

[rodell330]

How did Rodgers playing make our run def be #5?

Easy..Rodgers is going to score and force teams to play keep up which usually means more passing and less running equating to less rush yds. Next question.

 

[PFanCan]

Duds: MM. I assume he was the one putting Flynn in the non-existent pocket time after time on deep drops.

Studs: no one comes to mind. That was painful to watch.

 

[longtimefan]

Easy..Rodgers is going to score and force teams to play keep up which usually means more passing and less running equating to less rush yds. Next question.

Yuppers that is right...But even when the Packers were losing teams didnt run as much as I thought..And the Pack still held opponents as well..

That is why I listed where teams are ranked now...To show how good or bad they are

Niner game and Bengal game Pack only allowed 3.2 per carry (losses)
Raven and Lions game, 2.7 per carry (wins)

Niner game 2nd to last, 3 rushes, 2 passes...Last series 5 rushes to 3 passes

Lions game, they rushed normally up until their last 2 possessions...Then they had 8 passes and 2 rushes then 7 passes in a row..

Ravens game 2nd to last for Ravens, 6 rushes, 5 passes...Last series 7 straight passes

Washington game, even tho they won, they gave up a ton of yards in rushing 108 yards, 17 carries 7.4 per carry..But Washington gave up running the ball in the late part of the game

Bengal game last series (they had that fumble for a td on our 4th and 2)
5 passes and 2 runs resulted in a Td

But point still remains that before Rodgers got hurt, we all saw them stopping legit runners

 

[HardRightEdge]

How did Rodgers playing make our run def be #5?

Because with Rodgers they walked on the field believing they'd win.

Now, they won't even play for pride.

 

[Zartan]

Duds: MM. I assume he was the one putting Flynn in the non-existent pocket time after time on deep drops.

Studs: no one comes to mind. That was painful to watch.

I would atleast give Crosby some loving. He has been good so far. Making long FG Attempts.

 

[P-E-Z]

Every team has some down time after years of success. The Packers have picked near the bottom rounds of the draft almost every year and obviously not having Rodgers hurts a lot.

With the line play AR would not have made much of difference.

 

[DOCTORAPK]

Yes.

Anybody really think one game defines a GM?

fia, post: 526993, member: 2846"]Yes.

Anybody really think one game defines a GM?[/quote]
Why yes, when It shows how singularly this team is built upon Rodgers

 

[ExpatPacker]

The Lions should have scored 50 points in this game, but 4 turnovers kept it on the short side of an embarrassing loss.

There comes a point where you have to recognize that the players aren't giving it and that they aren't tuned into their coaches anymore. Despite all the protests by players, you can just sense that this is what has happened on this team. This game may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Under those circumstances you must make a change, and little cosmetic changes won't do. The direction of the team for the last 5 years has to be "evaluated" as MM loves to say, and a different direction has to be taken. That means a major shakeup in the coaching staff, it means hiring someone from the outside rather than promoting everyone from inside the organization, and it means some players get the boot.

Capers and Slocum IMO top the list of those who have to go, but I see no reason why Clements should be kept and FFS, McCarthy has to step down as the play-caller for this offense. He is not only practicable, but his calls sometimes just don't make sense. He shows an inability to change during the course of the game or an unwillingness to do so.

As for players, take Raji's 8 mil contract off the table. Let someone else sign him for that amount if he's lucky enough to get it. He disappears for long stretches of time. He's done next to nothing over the last 5 weeks.

TWilliams should get maybe half of what he's getting now and that's generous.

I still have my doubts that TT or McCarthy are capable making major changes. They are guided by their "philosophy" of next man up, draft and develop, and promote from within. It ain't working.

 

[adambr2]

Dud: BJ Raji.

A single Lion's guard was plenty enough to stone the highly overrated "anchor" of our D-line all day as they gashed us for nearly 300 yards on the ground. Raji continues to baffle me as to what exactly he contributes that would make us even think of extending him an offer of 8M per year.

If you think he plays the game lazy and unmotivated now, wait til he actually gets paid.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Studs: Packer fans in full-on meltdown mode during today's ***-kicking. They're in beast mode right now, myself included.

Duds: Add Sitton to this list for his high profile and poorly-timed criticism of the Lions' defensive line. ***.

I don`t blame Sitton for his comments, but he sure got handled by the Lions last night with the rest of them.

 

[Luca]

Studs:
1. Sam Shields: He covered pretty well all day
2. Clay Matthews: Matthews finally looked like Matthews.
3. Nick Perry: Was able to put some pressure on the QB. Should play better versus the run though.

Duds.
1. BJ Raji: Looked awfull all day.
2. Marshall Newhouse, Don Barclay and David Bakhtiari: They got abused by the detroit D-line.
5. M.D. Jennings: You are the weakest link! Good bye! (at least he is a better player than McMillian)
6. Matt Flynn: Poor decison making all day. For example: throwing to a double covered Jordy Nelson when Quarless is wide open.
7. AJ Hawk and Brad Jones: Middle linebackers should made tackles. The only thing they did was missing tackles.
9. Richardson, House, Stoneburner and other special team players: How hard is it to make a special team tackle?

Get free out of jail pass: The receivers. I don't think they had a single opportunity to actually catch a football.