Special Teams 2021-22

[Pkrjones]

Didn't read more than thru Week 3 of that article, but Week 1 the Chargers gave up 160 yds. Sunday night the Packers gave up 131 yards on 3 punt returns AND 128 yards on 5 kickoff returns. IF MLF isn't going to replace Drayton then moving forward I hope we see A LOT more punts & kickoffs out of bounds to minimize the return yards. Yes, I said kickoffs, too, as defending 60 yards is better than allowing decent returners to run free. Crosby has only been hitting touchbacks on 43.5% of his kickoffs and it's only going to get colder at game-time the rest of the season.

 

[gopkrs]

I have mentioned that over and over again but you can twist the numbers every way you want to but there's no way to support the notion that Crosby has been an above average kicker for most of his career.

I thought we were talking about long ones. Over 50. And the cold affects those more. I'm not a Crosby apologist but I have not had a problem with his long time in GB (except the one bad year). He has been consistent for us. I've been satisfied and I think your problem with him is about money. You think that is more significant than I do. I hope you don't have the same problem with Bojo because we have had some real dry spells with punters. and it affects field position.

 

[Schultz]

This stat is only valid if the objective is to kick it out of the end zone on every kick. Otherwise it is meaningless. If, for instance, they want a return so they can try to get the tackle inside the 20 instead of an automatic start at the 25. You know, how most other teams view the Packers returners.

I think your point makes Crosby look even worse. IMO the Packers would like the ball kicked out of the end zone every time based on their ST coverage where as some of the kickers ranked 27 thru 32 may actually be trying to kick it between the goal line and the 5 at times.

 

[milani]

Yeah, I don't know how GB cold affects these stats but he does have a strong field goal leg. He can do it. Not saying he will do it. When did Minihaha get a dome?

Crosby has not had the luxury of kicking indoors regularly like some kickers. 3 of his biggest 50's came in the playoffs on the road. So he still has the ability.

 

[gopkrs]

This stat is only valid if the objective is to kick it out of the end zone on every kick. Otherwise it is meaningless. If, for instance, they want a return so they can try to get the tackle inside the 20 instead of an automatic start at the 25. You know, how most other teams view the Packers returners.

Very good example of how stats can be misleading, misunderstood or people can try and make stats say more than they really do.

 

[Poppa San]

128 yards on 5 kickoff returns.

5 touchbacks = 125 return yards.

Bears started 3 drives around the 40 after kickoffs. The OoB kick was inexcusible; Two more touchbacks at the 25.
There were three others that didn't make the 25 on the return. These, especially the fumble, is why you don't always do a touchback. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202112120gnb.htm

GNB 35

Mason Crosby kicks off 63 yards, returned by Khalil Herbert for 14 yards (tackle by Shemar Jean-Charles). Penalty on Deon Bush: Offensive Holding, 8 yards (accepted)

GNB 35

Mason Crosby kicks off 66 yards, returned by Khalil Herbert for 14 yards. Khalil Herbert fumbles (forced by Henry Black), recovered by Cole Kmet at CHI-13 (tackle by Henry Black)

GNB 35

Mason Crosby kicks off 62 yards, returned by Khalil Herbert for 18 yards (tackle by Ty Summers)

 

[Pkrjones]

5 touchbacks = 125 return yards.

Bears started 3 drives around the 40 after kickoffs. The OoB kick was inexcusible; Two more touchbacks at the 25.
There were three others that didn't make the 25 on the return. These, especially the fumble, is why you don't always do a touchback. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202112120gnb.htm

GNB 35

Mason Crosby kicks off 63 yards, returned by Khalil Herbert for 14 yards (tackle by Shemar Jean-Charles). Penalty on Deon Bush: Offensive Holding, 8 yards (accepted)

GNB 35

Mason Crosby kicks off 66 yards, returned by Khalil Herbert for 14 yards. Khalil Herbert fumbles (forced by Henry Black), recovered by Cole Kmet at CHI-13 (tackle by Henry Black)

GNB 35

Mason Crosby kicks off 62 yards, returned by Khalil Herbert for 18 yards (tackle by Ty Summers)

Well done, Poppa... got it. That makes sense. In my 1st half mini-rage against ST I only remember the numerous 40 yard starting positions. Thanx!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I never said that Crosby was good at forcing a touchback, go back and read my post. You seem hell bent on getting rid of Crosby and I just don't think its happening right now, so I am trying to chat about dealing with the current situation and the parameters as they are presented. Everything else is just noise. Which is why I brought up activating Molson if he can consistently kick it out of the endzone AND the Packers feel the need to do that, given the way the special teams is playing.

It seems it's close to impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you about Crosby as you seem hell bent on keeping him around no matter what.

I have been pretty clear about it that I'm fine with the Packers giving him a chance to turn it around for the rest of this season. If he doesn't it's time to move on next offseason.

If it's that bad that they would have to activate another kicker on game day to take over some of his responsibilities there's no reason to keep him around for another week though.

This stat is only valid if the objective is to kick it out of the end zone on every kick. Otherwise it is meaningless. If, for instance, they want a return so they can try to get the tackle inside the 20 instead of an automatic start at the 25. You know, how most other teams view the Packers returners.

I don't think the Packers actually want the opposing team to return a kickoff.

I thought we were talking about long ones. Over 50. And the cold affects those more. I'm not a Crosby apologist but I have not had a problem with his long time in GB (except the one bad year). He has been consistent for us. I've been satisfied and I think your problem with him is about money. You think that is more significant than I do. I hope you don't have the same problem with Bojo because we have had some real dry spells with punters. and it affects field position.

The numbers I posted were for field goal attempts from at least 50 yards.

My main issue with Crosby was that he's being overpaid but don't fool yourself his performance hasn't been above average for most of his career. The numbers clearly support that.

Yet for some unknown reason fans try to come up with a ton of excuses for it.

Crosby has not had the luxury of kicking indoors regularly like some kickers. 3 of his biggest 50's came in the playoffs on the road. So he still has the ability.

Crosby has made a total of two field goals from at least 50 yards in the postseason in his career, both of them coming at Dallas in 2016 (most likely his best game as a Packer).

 

[milani]

It seems it's close to impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you about Crosby as you seem hell bent on keeping him around no matter what.

I have been pretty clear about it that I'm fine with the Packers giving him a chance to turn it around for the rest of this season. If he doesn't it's time to move on next offseason.

If it's that bad that they would have to activate another kicker on game day to take over some of his responsibilities there's no reason to keep him around for another week though.



I don't think the Packers actually want the opposing team to return a kickoff.



The numbers I posted were for field goal attempts from at least 50 yards.

My main issue with Crosby was that he's being overpaid but don't fool yourself his performance hasn't been above average for most of his career. The numbers clearly support that.

Yet for some unknown reason fans try to come up with a ton of excuses for it.



Crosby has made a total of two field goals from at least 50 yards in the postseason in his career, both of them coming at Dallas in 2016 (most likely his best game as a Packer).

All right. So his kick at Seattle with the season on the line was 48. But it was in crunch time and it did send the game to OT.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

All right. So his kick at Seattle with the season on the line was 48. But it was in crunch time and it did send the game to OT.

That was definitely a great kick and most likely Crosby's second best game in his postseason career.

Aside of those two games he hasn't made a single field goal from more than 43 yards in the playoffs in his career. In addition since the game at Dallas five years ago his longest attempt in the playoffs has come from 41 yards against the Falcons in 2016 (which he missed) with the longest made one being a 39-yarder against the Rams last season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That was definitely a great kick and most likely Crosby's second best game in his postseason career.

Aside of those two games he hasn't made a single field goal from more than 43 yards in the playoffs in his career. In addition since the game at Dallas five years ago his longest attempt in the playoffs has come from 41 yards against the Falcons in 2016 (which he missed) with the longest made one being a 39-yarder against the Rams last season.

Trying to find fault with Crosby during the playoffs? Pretty tough thing to do, even for you Cap. He has been a very good kicker when it comes to the playoffs. He is 69/69 on XP's and 30/33 on FG's. At one point he hit 23 straight FG's in the playoffs. 2 of his 3 misses came in separate games against the Falcons, both games were blowouts by each side. In the 2010 season, he missed a 50 yarder in the 4th Q., Packers won the game 48-21. In 2016, he missed a 41 yarder in the 2nd Q. of 44-21 Loss. His other miss was a 54 yarder in the 2nd Q of the 45-51 OT loss in 2009 to the Cardinals.

Crosby and the FG unit has definitely had their issues this season, but in the Playoffs, he has been pretty darn clutch.

 

[milani]

In his first NFL game I remember that he kicked a walk off winner against Philly. I know in 2008 he missed a game winning FG against the Vikings and had another game winner blocked by the Bears. But 2008 was just not our year.

 

[OldSchool101]

Trying to find fault with Crosby during the playoffs? Pretty tough thing to do, even for you Cap. He has been a very good kicker when it comes to the playoffs. He is 69/69 on XP's and 30/33 on FG's. At one point he hit 23 straight FG's in the playoffs. 2 of his 3 misses came in separate games against the Falcons, both games were blowouts by each side. In the 2010 season, he missed a 50 yarder in the 4th Q., Packers won the game 48-21. In 2016, he missed a 41 yarder in the 2nd Q. of 44-21 Loss. His other miss was a 54 yarder in the 2nd Q of the 45-51 OT loss in 2009 to the Cardinals.

Crosby and the FG unit has definitely had their issues this season, but in the Playoffs, he has been pretty darn clutch.

I know it’s not my fight, this Crosby thing. I just want to join in and say something about Crosby in general.

Hes got great hair. I wish I had his hair.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Trying to find fault with Crosby during the playoffs? Pretty tough thing to do, even for you Cap. He has been a very good kicker when it comes to the playoffs. He is 69/69 on XP's and 30/33 on FG's. At one point he hit 23 straight FG's in the playoffs. 2 of his 3 misses came in separate games against the Falcons, both games were blowouts by each side. In the 2010 season, he missed a 50 yarder in the 4th Q., Packers won the game 48-21. In 2016, he missed a 41 yarder in the 2nd Q. of 44-21 Loss. His other miss was a 54 yarder in the 2nd Q of the 45-51 OT loss in 2009 to the Cardinals.

Crosby and the FG unit has definitely had their issues this season, but in the Playoffs, he has been pretty darn clutch.

I'm not trying to find fault with Crosby in the playoffs as he has a great track record in the postseason. It's fair to mention that his average distance per attempt in the playoffs is two yards below the league average since 2007 though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The last post wasn't meant to be funny.

The point I was trying to make is that Crosby hasn't attempted any long field goals in the postseason since 2016. In fact his average distance of 28.25 yards on only four attempts (despite playing in five games) is significantly below the league average (38.90).

 

[swhitset]

The last post wasn't meant to be funny.

The point I was trying to make is that Crosby hasn't attempted any long field goals in the postseason since 2016. In fact his average distance of 28.25 yards on only four attempts (despite playing in five games) is significantly below the league average (38.90).

While I understand your point, I‘d say that could be interpreted to mean that the offense was getting closer than other teams before attempting kicks... not exactly a ding against Crosby lol.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The last post wasn't meant to be funny.

The point I was trying to make is that Crosby hasn't attempted any long field goals in the postseason since 2016. In fact his average distance of 28.25 yards on only four attempts (despite playing in five games) is significantly below the league average (38.90).

Read your post again. Maybe you didn't intend it to be funny, but with your history of being an Anti-Crosbian, it sure came off as funny. I read it as "I am not trying to find fault in Crosby during the playoffs, because you all are right, he has been great, BUT...here is another reason why you all are wrong about him in the playoffs."

 

[Sanguine camper]

Given that the special teams are such a dumpster fire, Crosby may be the least of the Packers worries since they have even managed to not get the snap, placement and blocking down, not to mention the rest of the aweful mess of the special teams. If you're MLF, where do you even start? its like trying to clean a house after a tornado.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Given that the special teams are such a dumpster fire, Crosby may be the least of the Packers worries since they have even managed to not get the snap, placement and blocking down, not to mention the rest of the aweful mess of the special teams. If you're MLF, where do you even start? its like trying to clean a house after a tornado.

You summed it up pretty well, seems like a constant putting out of fires to me and last Sunday night, a bunch started up. If Drayton can't get the job done and the Packers won't replace him, then hire him some knowledgeable help. Drayton sounds like a nice guy, but if it takes the veteran players to remind the Special teams players to listen to him and play harder, than Drayton might be "too nice of a guy", to be the one in charge.

 

[Poppa San]

Drayton sounds like a nice guy,

Somebody once said nice guys finish last. While they're in the singles game their rate of getting laid is also pretty low.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Somebody once said nice guys finish last. While they're in the singles game their rate of getting laid is also pretty low.

I don't care where Drayton finishes, but let's hope his Team finishes the year in first, with or without a great special team.

 

[milani]

The last post wasn't meant to be funny.

The point I was trying to make is that Crosby hasn't attempted any long field goals in the postseason since 2016. In fact his average distance of 28.25 yards on only four attempts (despite playing in five games) is significantly below the league average (38.90).

In 2017 and 2018 I believe we were absent from the playoffs. So it only leaves 19 and 20.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In 2017 and 2018 I believe we were absent from the playoffs. So it only leaves 19 and 20.

Actually, it only leaves 2020, since Crosby didn't attempt any FG's during the playoffs in 2019 either. However like the rest of his playoff career, he was a perfect 10 of 10 on XP's in 2019 and 2020.

Basically, what I think Captain is trying to sell people on is that Crosby isn't that good of a kicker in the playoffs, since he has only made 4 FG's "with an ave. of 28.25 yds" since 2016. Using the average distance of his only 4 kicks (24, 39, 24 and 26) as some kind of negative. What he fails to mention is that Crosby was perfect on all of 4 of the FG's that the Packers asked him to kick, as well as all 10 of his XP's during that time. I doubt he wanted to include the 2016 season, since that was the year that Crosby kicked 2 clutch kicks against Dallas. He made a 56 to take the lead with 1:38 left on the clock and a 51 yarder with 00:03 on the clock to win the game against Dallas.

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[Poppa San]

Crosby kicked 2 clutch kicks against Dallas.

If the Packers had a decent defense, he wouldn't have needed the second kick.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I understand your point, I‘d say that could be interpreted to mean that the offense was getting closer than other teams before attempting kicks... not exactly a ding against Crosby lol.

It could be interpreted that the coaching staff didn't have confidence in Crosby attempting longer field goals as well.

Read your post again. Maybe you didn't intend it to be funny, but with your history of being an Anti-Crosbian, it sure came off as funny. I read it as "I am not trying to find fault in Crosby during the playoffs, because you all are right, he has been great, BUT...here is another reason why you all are wrong about him in the playoffs."

In my opinion the average distance per attempt should be considered. There's no denying Crosby has gotten the job done being asked of him but he wasn't put in a lot of difficult situations either.

Basically, what I think Captain is trying to sell people on is that Crosby isn't that good of a kicker in the playoffs, since he has only made 4 FG's "with an ave. of 28.25 yds" since 2016. Using the average distance of his only 4 kicks (24, 39, 24 and 26) as some kind of negative. What he fails to mention is that Crosby was perfect on all of 4 of the FG's that the Packers asked him to kick, as well as all 10 of his XP's during that time. I doubt he wanted to include the 2016 season, since that was the year that Crosby kicked 2 clutch kicks against Dallas. He made a 56 to take the lead with 1:38 left on the clock and a 51 yarder with 00:03 on the clock to win the game against Dallas.

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Once again, that game in Dallas was Crosby's best performance as a Packer.

Since 2007, he ranks 38th out of 46 kickers with at least four attempts in the playoffs in average yards per attempt though. That needs to be considered somehow though.