Special Teams 2021-22

[Pokerbrat2000]

Earlier this year a reporter asked Belichek about the roster spot that a long snapper takes up, whether it is worth it or not. Well one word answer Bill went on for over 5 minutes on the history of the long snapper. It was like he had been waiting for that question his whole career and Christmas had come early that day.

I actually would love to listen to his response.

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[PikeBadger]

I'm not sure motivation is that big of a challenge. Summers and Burks are still on an NFL roster. Yiadom is a lousy CB, but he's still there because of ST. Jarret Bush made a good living for years. These guys know their limitations and ST is how they stay on a team.

The Packers need to draft both Leo Chenal and Jack Sanborn of Wisconsin. They both are maniacs who play the game like their hair is on fire.

 

[Schultz]

I actually would love to listen to his response.

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What is your take on the length and precision of his response?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers need to draft both Leo Chenal and Jack Sanborn of Wisconsin. They both are maniacs who play the game like their hair is on fire.

I love watching the Badgers defense play. It has even gotten to the point where im not that disappointed when the Badgers have to punt.

Chanal, Sanborn, Burks and Herbig have to be one of the top linebacker group in college football. Even before Jim Leonard came along Aranda and Wilcox produced some talented Defensive players and the UW is quickly becoming Linebacker U. Hope to see all 4 of those guys in the NFL.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What is your take on the length and precision of his response?

Loved it. Very thorough. Bill's a sharp guy and you could tell he really enjoyed talking about the history of LS, punter and kicker, as well as returners. Also, made a lot of sense and jived with what I have read on the subject.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is what I said. You teach what you know and you know what youve learned. Get a guy who was an understudy to a successful STs unit. Why would you hire from within a bad STs unit? It just makes no sense.

I’ve seen that in the business world and as you said it is not good. It just doesn’t normally does not work out shuffling roles with an underperforming Manager. Get a bright young mind in there like the ST version of MLF. An average ST doesn’t always seem to help you, but boy can a bad ST group hurt you.

Normally we keep those ST Coordinators about
2-3 seasons or so. But I’ll take my chances moving on. I’d give Drayton November to figure this out or have him sharpen his resume for somewhere else. I also like the idea of an Assistant to the Coordinator taking the lead, but that’s when he’s been there several years and they have strung together success at the group. Drayton doesn’t fit that requirement and hasn’t broken the curse.

 

[Pkrjones]

Get a bright young mind in there like the ST version of MLF.

Mentioned Brayden Combs on page one. MLF chose not to hire him in '19...maybe this is the right time to turn ST from a liability into an asset?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Does anyone know what the average age/experience of the Packer's special teams group is? I remember that when TT was around the Packers were extremely young on special teams relative to the rest of the league and that was a major part of why the special teams group was so bad.

I am certainly not excusing the coaching job on special teams but I'm curious if one factor might not be a bunch of young players.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

The Packers need to draft both Leo Chenal and Jack Sanborn of Wisconsin. They both are maniacs who play the game like their hair is on fire.

Is that code for "They are hot heads ?"

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To be fair to Drayton, the special teams have been atrocious for a long time and yesterday was inevitable, given the long list of special teams mistakes they make on a weekly basis.

Drayton was part of the coaching staff being responsible for the special teams struggling from 2018-20 though.

However, I will add that I completely disagree with the notion that hiring from within was a predictable outcome KiDcUdI and CaptainWIMM suggest. Along that line of thinking, at every company you've worked at if a manger sucked, you are saying that every manager below them should be fired as well. People and coaches are not robots, all singing off of the same song sheet. I've had many bosses that I disagreed with but did as was told, and in two cases, was given the opportunity to "fix" things when they were asked to leave. I did NOT continue with their dumb ways.

Drayton worked as an assistant under two special teams coordinators (Zook and Mennenga) while the units struggled. It would have been a huge surprise if promoting him would have resulted in a significant improvement, especially as I'm absolutely convinced he had an input with both coaches.

Yeah I believe if it was 10-6 then MLF does not go for it on 4th down with 30 seconds left in the half.

The Packers didn't score until less than five minutes left in the game.

That was me. I thought I read something to that effect, but I cannot find a source now.

FWIW the Bills only ranked 22nd in field goal percentage from 2019-20 with Bojorquez being their holder for the entire season. I'm not sure he was partly responsible for it though.

Honestly, it's possible that FGs get fixed when Bhak comes back too. If Kelley is the 4/5 OT, then an Active #69 means Kelley is in-active and the blockers across the board go up a notch.

If Kelly isn't able to adequately block on field goals he has no business of being on the roster in the first place. I definitely don't want to see him protecting Rodgers at any point this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is that code for "They are hot heads ?"

No....in this case...."maniacs" means "guys running around like their hair is on fire"....oh wait....you might think that is also a "hot head"....let's just say Chenal and Sanborn are 2 linebackers that are all over the place, seemingly knowing where the ball is at all times and making a ton of tackles for losses.

 

[PikeBadger]

Does anyone know what the average age/experience of the Packer's special teams group is? I remember that when TT was around the Packers were extremely young on special teams relative to the rest of the league and that was a major part of why the special teams group was so bad.

I am certainly not excusing the coaching job on special teams but I'm curious if one factor might not be a bunch of young players.

When Thompson was GM the average age of the entire roster was almost always amongst the youngest rosters in the NFL. I'm guessing that our roster is somewhere around league average now.

 

[PikeBadger]

Is that code for "They are hot heads ?"

Lol, that means their motors run consistently north of the red line. Very aggressive and physical and have excellent athletic instincts. Every team needs some of those types.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Does anyone know what the average age/experience of the Packer's special teams group is? I remember that when TT was around the Packers were extremely young on special teams relative to the rest of the league and that was a major part of why the special teams group was so bad.

I am certainly not excusing the coaching job on special teams but I'm curious if one factor might not be a bunch of young players.

My hunch is that your special teams group is usually made up of quite a few young guys and it is also made up of a lot of inexperienced guys. After all, you typically don't play your starters on Special Teams. Another challenge for special teams coaches is the influx of players during the season. Due to starters going down, guys get promoted to the starting position and their replacements come off the practice squad and now are added to special teams.

I don't think I have heard anyone say that it is an easy job, but we have had some real duds as coaches and for MLF to promote a guy that served under those 2 duds, well I don't think many of us are surprised at the results.

This kind of reminds me of Joe Whitt Jr. How long did it take for the Packers to finally realize he was part of the problem under 2 failed DC's and 3 if you include his final year under Pettine? In fairness to Whitt, I probably wouldn't have fired him in 2008 when Sanders was fired and Capers took over. However, it wasn't until McCarthy was canned, that Gute gave Whitt his walking papers too. They fired Capers and let Whitt stick around far too long, even talking about promoting him to DC.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Lol, that means their motors run consistently north of the red line. Very aggressive and physical and have excellent athletic instincts. Every team needs some of those types.

Unless their name is Jaylon Smith. He was a maniac, unfortunately, one without a rudder.

 

[realitybytez]

If Bojourquez needs to be replaced, have Cobb or Love work on it.

i'm just taking a shot here, but i think love would be a lousy punter.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

No....in this case...."maniacs" means "guys running around like their hair is on fire"....oh wait....you might think that is also a "hot head"....let's just say Chenal and Sanborn are 2 linebackers that are all over the place, seemingly knowing where the ball is at all times and making a ton of tackles for losses.

We should never have let you screw with our language.....

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Lol, that means their motors run consistently north of the red line. Very aggressive and physical and have excellent athletic instincts. Every team needs some of those types.

Butchers, all of you......

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We should never have let you screw with our language.....

Cheerio Mate, should we throw one on the Barbie?

 

[milani]

Where does it say the punter has to be the holder? And I totally agree that you don't get rid of your punter because he is a bad holder. Just have someone else do it.

I like it when a QB holds. The fake FG pass works better with someone who can throw.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I like it when a QB holds. The fake FG pass works better with someone who can throw.

Kind of old school for sure. If you listen to Belichick's explanation of the evolution of the LS, punter and kicker, you might understand why the backup QB isn't used much anymore.

Also, who is to say that the punter can't throw? Former Packer and Seahawks Punter Jon Ryan was known for it. Matter of fact, I think he was one of about 10 reasons we lost that ill fated NFCCG game in Seattle back in 2014. In the third quarter the Seahawks were trailing 16–0, Ryan threw a 19-yard touchdown pass to Gary Gilliam on a fake field goal. To this day I think that is what lit the match that ignited the fans and players to come back and win that game. Up until that play, the Seahawks seemed lifeless and about ready to concede the game.

 

[milani]

Kind of old school for sure. If you listen to Belichick's explanation of the evolution of the LS, punter and kicker, you might understand why the backup QB isn't used much anymore.

Also, who is to say that the punter can't throw? Former Packer and Seahawks Punter Jon Ryan was known for it. Matter of fact, I think he was one of about 10 reasons we lost that ill fated NFCCG game in Seattle back in 2014. In the third quarter the Seahawks were trailing 16–0, Ryan threw a 19-yard touchdown pass to Gary Gilliam on a fake field goal. To this day I think that is what lit the match that ignited the fans and players to come back and win that game. Up until that play, the Seahawks seemed lifeless and about ready to concede the game.

It was also a future Seahawk QB who was a holder for the Pack called Matt Hasselback who threw a TD on a fake FG up in the Metrodome and later in Tampa to Bubba Frank's. Depends.

 

[Mondio]

If this is as good as our kicking unit can be with the LS and holder and kicker, then we better get the LS and holder right because we're not getting a new kicker at this point. I don't care who it is on the team. Catch it, spin it, let Crosby kick it. Fix the part you can see definitely isn't working.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It was also a future Seahawk QB who was a holder for the Pack called Matt Hasselback who threw a TD on a fake FG up in the Metrodome and later in Tampa to Bubba Frank's. Depends.

Of course, that happened in 2000, about the time that most teams were beginning to transition to full time LS and punters becoming holders. Hell, go back further and you will find all sorts of starting position players doing everything, including kicking, holding and snapping the ball on kicks.

As Belichick stated, with the expansion of the rosters, teams started to see the value of having a specialized long snapper and in some cases, return man.

 

[milani]

Of course, that happened in 2000, about the time that most teams were beginning to transition to full time LS and punters becoming holders. Hell, go back further and you will find all sorts of starting position players doing everything, including kicking, holding and snapping the ball on kicks.

As Belichick stated, with the expansion of the rosters, teams started to see the value of having a specialized long snapper and in some cases, return man.
And the irony is just what *** said about using up a roster spot for that very reason. Now you find yourself no room on game day for a 3rd QB, a FB, or even an extra DL if you need it.