Sack Leaders

[El Guapo]

Saw this cool article about PFR going back to 1960 to cull sack (and presumably other) stats:

New sack data shuffles Green Bay Packers all-time sack leaders list

After Pro Football Reference's unearthing of the numbers from before 1982, the Green Bay Packers all-time sack leaders list has been shuffled. Before 1982,...

fansided.com

 

[Krabs]

I'm alright with Willie Davis being the Packers all time leader in sacks. Love Matthews too, but if Davis had more he should be credited for it.

 

[Poppa San]

And he did it all in 14 game seasons. His sacks per game must be close to all-time league numbers.

 

[Krabs]

And he did it all in 14 game seasons. His sacks per game must be close to all-time league numbers.

That is a good point. However, it could be argued that it was easier to get sacks back then. Offensive lineman actually had to put there hands against their own chest and their hands had to be clenched in a fist. They weren't allowed to use their hands the way O-lineman can these days.

1978 the NFL implemented a rule change which allowed offensive linemen to extend their arms and use their open hands while pass-blocking. “It was a totally different deal as opposed to today,” Kramer said. “Not only were you not allowed to use your hands, you had to have them up on your chest. If you let your hands get away from your body, even if your fists were clinched, and you didn’t reach for anything, they could call illegal use of hands.”

 

[El Guapo]

Agreed. That is another example of why it is so hard to compare players of different eras.

Comparing against other players of his era would be a good place to look. Don Hudson is such a great example of somebody that did it all, head-over-heals better than any of his contemporaries.

 

[Mondio]

How much did they pass vs run back then? If they’re not passing you can’t get a sack. When they don’t put passing personnel on the field 2 out of 3 plays, you can’t just rush the qb all the tome either.

 

[Poppa San]

That is a good point. However, it could be argued that it was easier to get sacks back then. Offensive lineman actually had to put there hands against their own chest and their hands had to be clenched in a fist. They weren't allowed to use their hands the way O-lineman can these days.

1978 the NFL implemented a rule change which allowed offensive linemen to extend their arms and use their open hands while pass-blocking. “It was a totally different deal as opposed to today,” Kramer said. “Not only were you not allowed to use your hands, you had to have them up on your chest. If you let your hands get away from your body, even if your fists were clinched, and you didn’t reach for anything, they could call illegal use of hands.”

If it were easy, everyone would do it. The dominance of the passing game did start at about the same time though.

 

[El Guapo]

Here is a quick comparison:

Packers Team Passing:
1965 - 306 attempts (Starr at QB)
1974 - 385 attempts (Hadl at QB)
1983 - 526 attempts (****ey at QB)
2001 - 510 attempts (Farve at QB)
2007 - 578 attempts (Favre at QB)
2020 - 526 attempts (Rodgers at QB)

Packers Team Rushing:
1965 - 423 attempts
1974 - 482 attempts
1983 - 439 attempts
2001 - 410 attempts
2007 - 388 attempts
2020 - 443 attempts

Packers Team Passing Ratio:
1965 - 42.0%
1974 - 44.4%
1983 - 54.5%
2001 - 55.4%
2007 - 59.8%
2020 - 54.3%

Packers Team Passing Attempts Per Game:
1965 - 21.9 attempts per game
1974 - 27.5 attempts per game
1983 - 32.9 attempts per game
2001 - 31.9 attempts per game
2007 - 36.1 attempts per game
2020 - 32.9 attempts per game

Packers Team Rushing Attempts Per Game:
1965 - 30.2 attempts per game
1974 - 34.4 attempts per game
1983 - 27.4 attempts per game
2001 - 25.6 attempts per game
2007 - 24.3 attempts per game
2020 - 27.7 attempts per game

I picked the 2001 season because that was the heyday of Ahman Green, and the 2007 season because Favre didn't have much of a running game.

It's important to note that the Packers only played 14 games in 1965 and 1974, and 16 games in each of the subsequent seasons. Therefore I calculated the Attempts per game to highlight the differences. A player in 1965 only had 22 chances to sack Bart Starr. In 2020, an opposing player got 33 chances to sack Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Krabs]

Here is a quick comparison:

Packers Team Passing:
1965 - 306 attempts (Starr at QB)
1974 - 385 attempts (Hadl at QB)
1983 - 526 attempts (****ey at QB)
2001 - 510 attempts (Farve at QB)
2007 - 578 attempts (Favre at QB)
2020 - 526 attempts (Rodgers at QB)

Packers Team Rushing:
1965 - 423 attempts
1974 - 482 attempts
1983 - 439 attempts
2001 - 410 attempts
2007 - 388 attempts
2020 - 443 attempts

Packers Team Passing Ratio:
1965 - 42.0%
1974 - 44.4%
1983 - 54.5%
2001 - 55.4%
2007 - 59.8%
2020 - 54.3%

Packers Team Passing Attempts Per Game:
1965 - 21.9 attempts per game
1974 - 27.5 attempts per game
1983 - 32.9 attempts per game
2001 - 31.9 attempts per game
2007 - 36.1 attempts per game
2020 - 32.9 attempts per game

Packers Team Rushing Attempts Per Game:
1965 - 30.2 attempts per game
1974 - 34.4 attempts per game
1983 - 27.4 attempts per game
2001 - 25.6 attempts per game
2007 - 24.3 attempts per game
2020 - 27.7 attempts per game

I picked the 2001 season because that was the heyday of Ahman Green, and the 2007 season because Favre didn't have much of a running game.

It's important to note that the Packers only played 14 games in 1965 and 1974, and 16 games in each of the subsequent seasons. Therefore I calculated the Attempts per game to highlight the differences. A player in 1965 only had 22 chances to sack Bart Starr. In 2020, an opposing player got 33 chances to sack Aaron Rodgers.

Good break down. With the work done on historical stats they should list Davis as the all time leader in sacks. Again, the o-line couldn't extend their arms or use their hands. I'm guessing on passing plays it was easier to get by them. Compare that to only 14 game seasons and it is probably a wash. Pretty cool someone took the time to watch all those games and gather all that historical knowledge.

 

[ARPackFan]

Here is a quick comparison:

Packers Team Passing:
1965 - 306 attempts (Starr at QB)
1974 - 385 attempts (Hadl at QB)
1983 - 526 attempts (****ey at QB)
2001 - 510 attempts (Farve at QB)
2007 - 578 attempts (Favre at QB)
2020 - 526 attempts (Rodgers at QB)

Packers Team Rushing:
1965 - 423 attempts
1974 - 482 attempts
1983 - 439 attempts
2001 - 410 attempts
2007 - 388 attempts
2020 - 443 attempts

Packers Team Passing Ratio:
1965 - 42.0%
1974 - 44.4%
1983 - 54.5%
2001 - 55.4%
2007 - 59.8%
2020 - 54.3%

Packers Team Passing Attempts Per Game:
1965 - 21.9 attempts per game
1974 - 27.5 attempts per game
1983 - 32.9 attempts per game
2001 - 31.9 attempts per game
2007 - 36.1 attempts per game
2020 - 32.9 attempts per game

Packers Team Rushing Attempts Per Game:
1965 - 30.2 attempts per game
1974 - 34.4 attempts per game
1983 - 27.4 attempts per game
2001 - 25.6 attempts per game
2007 - 24.3 attempts per game
2020 - 27.7 attempts per game

I picked the 2001 season because that was the heyday of Ahman Green, and the 2007 season because Favre didn't have much of a running game.

It's important to note that the Packers only played 14 games in 1965 and 1974, and 16 games in each of the subsequent seasons. Therefore I calculated the Attempts per game to highlight the differences. A player in 1965 only had 22 chances to sack Bart Starr. In 2020, an opposing player got 33 chances to sack Aaron Rodgers.

Stop using naughty words! Seriously, *** is wrong with the censorship software?

Lynn ****ey

Lynn Di-key

Can't even abbreviate what the fudge.

I think the software is going off half cocked! (It let this slide but not ****)

 

[El Guapo]

I'm a ***** mouth

 

[El Guapo]

I'm foul-mouthed.

I guess that I couldn't even use a common name for the toilet that my daughter used as a kid and starts with the letter "p"

 

[gopkrs]

Good break down. With the work done on historical stats they should list Davis as the all time leader in sacks. Again, the o-line couldn't extend their arms or use their hands. I'm guessing on passing plays it was easier to get by them. Compare that to only 14 game seasons and it is probably a wash. Pretty cool someone took the time to watch all those games and gather all that historical knowledge.

I don't know how many really good OTs there were. But Forrest Gregg was one of them. And although I am not sure what the rules were, I am sure not many DEs got by him. Including Deacon Jones who used the headslap so much (including when he had a cast on his arm and later when he found out he could put a metal rod inside the cast).

 

[Krabs]

I don't know how many really good OTs there were. But Forrest Gregg was one of them. And although I am not sure what the rules were, I am sure not many DEs got by him. Including Deacon Jones who used the headslap so much (including when he had a cast on his arm and later when he found out he could put a metal rod inside the cast).

That's a good point too. The head slap has been outlawed along with other dirty plays. It goes back to the argument that it is just too hard to compare players from different generations.

 

[El Guapo]

There were so many creative "moves" that players did back then. **** Nighttrain Lane was notorious for the closeline tackle until they eventually banned it. The other week I was watching NFL Films and they interviewed a guy that played CB for the Steelers in the 60s. They asked him if the players were tougher back then. The guy couldn't stop laughing at Steve Sabol.


**Edit** Richard "Night Train" Lane