Russ Ball, a man of immense influence and intrigue

[Deleted member 6794]

Interesting read by Michael Cohen about the Packers' vice president of football operations/player finance:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...05/29/wis-0530-packers-ball-part-1/349589001/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's part two of Cohen's story on Ball:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...-ball-plays-hardball-packers-heart/349607001/

 

[HardRightEdge]

Consiglieri, cap bean counter, contract negotiator. Everybody needs somebody who is at the nexus of the talent and the money.

The question is whether he has any facility with talent evaluation and scouting, the primary job of a general manager.

 

[PikeBadger]

Consiglieri, cap bean counter, contract negotiator. Everybody needs somebody who is at the nexus of the talent and the money.

The question is whether he has any facility with talent evaluation and scouting, the primary job of a general manager.

Very true but many here think that Thompson isn't particularly good at that either and no one in 2005 was referring to him as a super scout or top shelf GM in the making. Russ Ball seems to be the type of guy that becomes good at whatever he sets his mind to. Very respected football man.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Very true but many here think that Thompson isn't particularly good at that either....

Even if one were to agree with that statement, it says nothing about Ball's talent evaluation abilities. "We couldn't do any worse" is hardly a convincing argument.

...and no one in 2005 was referring to [Thompson] as a super scout or top shelf GM in the making.

Be that as it may, Thompson spent many years working his way up through the scouting ranks. He had a lot of experience as a talent evaluator.

Ball started out as as a strength and conditioning coach then moved to the administrative side. From what I can surmise, he has never held even a position coach or a scouting job.

Russ Ball seems to be the type of guy that becomes good at whatever he sets his mind to. Very respected football man.

Nobody is the type of guy that becomes good at whatever he sets his mind to. I'm sure he's a respected football man. GM is an occupation very closely related to his experience.

I'll say this much. Packer players who have been allowed to depart with mid-to-high ticket contracts have, on balance, not performed to those contracts. If he had anything to do with that, that's a point in his favor.

The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I are in the room. We don't know if Ball has ever spent a day in his life poring over film. We don't know his depth of influence in top level stay-or-go decisions. And there's no evidence he's ever been involved in college scouting or the draft.

Besides cap management and contract negotiations, he has to spend his time, according to Packers.com, handling "daily supervision of football-administration departments including athletic training, equipment, video, corporate travel, player development, family programs and public relations".

So the question I raised remains, to reiterate, "is whether he has any facility with talent evaluation and scouting, the primary job of a general manager".

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Russ Ball is the worlds most interesting man, stay thirsty my friends.

 

[PikeBadger]

Even if one were to agree with that statement, it says nothing about Ball's talent evaluation abilities. "We couldn't do any worse" is hardly a convincing argument.

Be that as it may, Thompson spent many years working his way up through the scouting ranks. He had a lot of experience as a talent evaluator.

Ball started out as as a strength and conditioning coach then moved to the administrative side. From what I can surmise, he has never held even a position coach or a scouting job.

Nobody is the type of guy that becomes good at whatever he sets his mind to. I'm sure he's a respected football man. GM is an occupation very closely related to his experience.

I'll say this much. Packer players who have been allowed to depart with mid-to-high ticket contracts have, on balance, not performed to those contracts. If he had anything to do with that, that's a point in his favor.

The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I are in the room. We don't know if Ball has ever spent a day in his life poring over film. We don't know his depth of influence in top level stay-or-go decisions. And there's no evidence he's ever been involved in college scouting or the draft.

Besides cap management and contract negotiations, he has to spend his time, according to Packers.com, handling "daily supervision of football-administration departments including athletic training, equipment, video, corporate travel, player development, family programs and public relations".

So the question I raised remains, to reiterate, "is whether he has any facility with talent evaluation and scouting, the primary job of a general manager".

According to the article, he has been studying film. I think he's probably a strong GM candidate for somebody whether it's in Green Bay or somewhere else. That doesn't mean he'd necessarily be successful though. One never really knows that about anyone until they've been hired and worked at it for a few years. Same goes for Wolf and Gutenkunst. It looks like McKenzie, Schneider and Dorsey seem to be doing ok and they clearly are using some of Thompson's tools.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It looks like McKenzie, Schneider and Dorsey seem to be doing ok and they clearly are using some of Thompson's tools.

While that's certainly true all of them are using tools Thompson is extremely reluctant to as well though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It looks like McKenzie, Schneider and Dorsey seem to be doing ok and they clearly are using some of Thompson's tools.

McKenzie started as a scout with the Packers in 1994, the first 7 under Wolf.

Schneider scouted 4 years under Wolf then jumped up to Director of Pro Personnel with KC for 3 years under Carl Peterson while working 2 of those years with Schottenheimer.

Dorsey started as a scout with the Packers in 1991, the first 10 under Wolf.

For all of these guys, the training wheels were off long before they worked under Thompson as GM. They belong more in the Wolf tree with solid lines, more dotted lines in Thompson's.

Today, and for the duration of their tenures as GMs, Schneider and Dorsey operate in systems where Carroll and Reid, respectively, have final authority on personnel matters. The coaches are uber-GMs, the GMs are more super scouts.

McKenzie is a full-function GM who inherited one of the worst cap positions in the history of the cap. The first two years were spent chopping the roster, even trading Palmer, absorbing dead cap, backing and filling with cheap FAs. McKenzie has since remained active in FA, signing some big ticket players, while hitting on a QB and a DPOY defensive cornerstone in the draft. His modus operandi resembles more that of Wolf than Thompson.

Then again, the early Thompson resembles more Wolf than the more recent Thompson. Signing Woodson, bringing in Capers and the switch to 3-4, the QB transition were all more aggressive moves than we've seen since. Thompson has grown increasingly conservative, with the few FA signings including bounce-back players including Jones and House.

This year's uncharacteristic signing of 3 presumptive starters in FA and another expected to get meaningful snaps may be more Eliot Wolf-influenced than outright Thompson decisions. It was only a couple of years ago that Thompson would make statements to the affect that he is the decider, that the buck stops with him. The last 2 years the language has been more along the lines of collective efforts.

I think we know in which tree Eliot Wolf belongs.

 

[El Guapo]

Russ Ball would make a great president for the Packers, taking over for Mark Murphy. He would be very low on my list to take over the general manager position. All of these articles are just media hype to keep the conversation going. It's going to be someone from within the current scouting department or an outside scout/guy. There is really zero reason to hire Russ Ball as the GM. I wouldn't want us hiring the janitor that excels at his job either. Contract negotiation is an important part of the organization but it doesn't qualify you to do everything else....or vice versa.