Questions that Define the Draft (2025)

Dantés

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These are the questions which, if we knew the answers, would allow us to predict this coming draft much more successfully.

1) Do the Packers see a legitimate future for Jordan Morgan at tackle or are they just humoring him by allowing him to compete there? Furthermore on the OL, which player(s) are they planning to retain?

2) Which receiver(s), if any, do the Packers see as long-term contributors and which are they ready to move on from or upgrade?

3) What sort of defensive line are they looking to build for Hafley? Do they have any interest in a 2 gapping skillset or is it all about length and upfield penetration?

4) To what degree is the team attributing the lack of edge rush to personnel vs. coaching and how will their lean impact their draft emphasis?

5) How urgently do the Packers feel the need to upgrade from the current players at corner?

The answers to these questions will dictate a ton of draft decisions, from when certain positions are drafted, to what type of players are taken at each position.

So how do you answer them?
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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1) Do the Packers see a legitimate future for Jordan Morgan at tackle or are they just humoring him by allowing him to compete there? Furthermore on the OL, which player(s) are they planning to retain?

Part of me wants to say that the Packers wouldn't have spent high draft capital on Morgan if they didn't see him at tackle. However, the contract they handed to Aaron Banks says that they place a high value on interior OL. Part of me wants to say that the only reason Morgan was at guard in 2024 is because that's where the need was. However, it isn't as though Rasheed Walker is head and shoulders better than Rhyan. It's also possible that they drafted him primarily as a tackle, but thought differently of it once they got him into camp.

All that said, I'm conflicted about this one. My gut says that they are willing to give him a shot at left tackle, but internally see him more as the future at RG. But my lean in that direction is slight. I also think that they will retain Tom, but let Walker and Rhyan walk.

If I'm right, I would expect an OL drafted in the first three rounds with OT/G versatility. And it wouldn't shock me a bit to see one taken at #23 because everyone needs quality offensive linemen. If you go through the exercise of mocking out the first few rounds, you'll spend a lot of time looking at depth charters to discern needs. What you will find in doing so is that basically every team in the NFL, especially the bad ones, needs lots of help on the OL. So if you don't get one early, you're going to watch a lot of them come off the board before you choose again. Banks or Conerly both fit the profile of players with legit versatility.

If I'm wrong and Morgan is the slamdunk future at LT, then OL will become a mid to late round consideration to bolster depth and prepare for Rhyan's departure.

2) Which receiver(s), if any, do the Packers see as long-term contributors and which are they ready to move on from or upgrade?


The receivers we're talking about: Watson, Doubs, Wicks, and Reed.

I think both the team and Watson will be amenable to a short extension to give him time to rebuild value. So when I think about that vertical X role, I think more in terms of capable backup who can help while Watson is out moreso than long-term replacement.

Doubs is not long for the Packers in my opinion and Watson's injury is the only reason why I'm not expecting him to get traded this off-season.

I bet that they don't know what they want to do with Wicks yet. He's a plus starter if he can control the drops. The Packers have seen this movie before (Davante Adams) and I'm sure they haven't written him off. But he has to do it, or else he's just J'Mon Moore.

Reed is the tricky one. He only plays in the slot and he doesn't beat man coverage. He's a manufactured touch player and he doesn't weave into the run game well because he isn't a reliable blocker. I am wondering if they are internally disappointed in how he's panned out and have interest in a different kind of player in the slot?

If I'm right in my assessments, then the Packers will be looking for a starting caliber player with inside/outside versatility and a quality backup who can threaten offenses vertically. The inside/outside guys, especially if you want blocking ability, would be guys like Egbuka, Bech, or Royals. The guys to be had later with vertical ability would be guys like Horton, Thornton, or (D)ike.

3) What sort of defensive line are they looking to build for Hafley? Do they have any interest in a 2 gapping skillset or is it all about length and upfield penetration?

What's clear and obvious is that the Packers need someone to play the 1T role. What's not as obvious is what kind of body they want there. Traditionally, your 1T is a 320+ lb monster who can hold up against double teams and cover two gaps. But that's not the only type of player that NFL teams deploy there.

I am guessing (note-- guessing) that the 49ers are the DL that Hafley is most closely looking to emulate. The interior of the 49ers' DL since Saleh got there has not been composed of 320+ lb block eaters. They have prioritized two basic types of players:

-Players with elite length (Buckner, Armstead, Kinlaw), usually at the 3T.
-Shorter players with explosive upfield ability (Jones, Givens, Hargrave), usually at the 1T.

If I'm right, the Packers won't be looking for guys like Grant or Williams to come take on double teams. They would either be targeting guys with elite wingspans, like Harmon, Collins, Farmer, etc. AND/OR stubby, explosive upfield guys like Jordan Phillips or C.J. West.

4) To what degree is the team attributing the lack of edge rush to personnel vs. coaching and how will their lean impact their draft emphasis?


I never understood why Rebrovich was on the coaching staff in the first place, let alone why he was getting promoted. I think the Packers generally like their talent at DE and believe a new coach can get a lot more out of them. My guess is that they're more interested in a DPR to be a cherry on top more than feeling a need to replace existing starters. I also think they feel they've found something real in Brenton Cox.

If I'm right, DE will only be a consideration high in the draft if the value is too good to pass. I'm suspicious that it's their hope to draft the position with either of their top selections. I also think their interest in Dante Fowler Jr. indicates that they would add a guy who is really just a passing down speed rusher.

5) How urgently do the Packers feel the need to upgrade from the current players at corner?


The Packers depth at CB is lacking, but they seemingly have all the primary starters/role-players on the roster already. There's no indication that they plan to move on from Nixon as a starter after he showed himself capable on the outside last year. They gave Hobbs money to be a top 3 corner. Valentine played over 50% of the snaps on defense last season and showed well. Bullard figures to play a lot of the snaps in the slot. All of these players are under contract through at least 2026.

So the question is whether they're content with this group and just want to improve the depth, or are they motivated to upgrade on any of these main role players? If the 49ers' defense is sort of the model or inspiration, it's interesting to note that since their current regime took over in 2017, they're only spent two picks in the top 100 on corners-- Renardo Green at #64 and Akhello Witherspoon at #84. I tend to think they're content to roll with the group they have and just add to the back of the roster on day 3.

If I'm right, CB won't be a position we see come off the board early.
 

tynimiller

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1) Do the Packers see a legitimate future for Jordan Morgan at tackle or are they just humoring him by allowing him to compete there? Furthermore on the OL, which player(s) are they planning to retain?

Not to repeat a lot of what you said, I strongly feel GB believes Morgan can 100% be either the LT of the future or the RG of the future and will let the draft come to them and perhaps the spring TC decide for Morgan where he goes. If say Gute and company in second or third write the name of a Top 30 pick Anthony Belton who is everything they like typically but just a tick taller and is for sure a tackle propsect and not a guard candidate to many...say they would draft Belton, they might let Morgan take RG and allow Rhyan to be the backup Center and RG and give Belton a chance to battle for LT; and look to 2026.

2) Which receiver(s), if any, do the Packers see as long-term contributors and which are they ready to move on from or upgrade?

We really are loaded with excellent depth type guys even backend with Heath and Melton, but have not had anyone separate as the WR1 or a guy that can be that X receiver IMO...and with Watson and Doubs both on last year, zero clue how Watson comes out of this, OR if Doubs' situation health (both mental and concussion wise) or mood wise sadly.

Now is the time to move in truth on a guy that is would be (with serious confidence - like IMO Higgins or Royals) or a guy with the chance (Horton, Harris, Felton...) types. I still think immense belief is there in our current room, but also the knowledge and realization that if they don't prove it in 2025, we cannot have no reload started.

3) What sort of defensive line are they looking to build for Hafley? Do they have any interest in a 2 gapping skillset or is it all about length and upfield penetration?

I have nothing to add that you didn't say already @Dantés and our thoughts are similar.

4) To what degree is the team attributing the lack of edge rush to personnel vs. coaching and how will their lean impact their draft emphasis?

I personally think Gute and Co. to a point was blowing smoke saying they have full faith in what we have, this position group I still believe is going to be seriously reloaded...either through a first or second round rusher OR I still think we'd pick up the phone from Bengals on Trey....

5) How urgently do the Packers feel the need to upgrade from the current players at corner?

If Jaire is here we don't have to really pick anyone....we have Jaire if healthy who is a CLEAR high level corner...Valentine entering third year and has grown each year....King and Hadden both looking to grow in their sophomore seasons....plus Hobbs and Nixon could make noise....I wouldn't be shocked if it weren't till Day 3 or if just UDFAs are added honestly.



***6) How comfortable is GB with Malik and do they foresee making him a permanent backup in GB?


This question IMO could play a factor in any draft pick from as early as the fourth clear through the end of the draft as well.
 
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1) Do the Packers see a legitimate future for Jordan Morgan at tackle or are they just humoring him by allowing him to compete there? Furthermore on the OL, which player(s) are they planning to retain?

First of all… GREAT questions!

I see pretty strong evidence there was a shift change in Offensive schematic. In past seasons, we were an Outside Zone running scheme. Last season we saw a shift in Dynamic towards an inside Zone scheme. We saw an adaptation to the strengths of Jacobs running style. I’d offer that signing Banks at LG put an official stamp on our intentions.

Our 526 Rushing attempts and 23 Rushing TD were more than any Packers team in recent history. Mike Sherman was our HC and Ahman Green was suited up the last time we ran more than 500+ times (503)

Sean Rhyan has actually been a pleasant surprise at RG after a shaky start. He’s gained the confidence of our OC in a big way and I wouldn’t even be surprised if he gets an earlier, modest extension offer to stay. This draft will spell the direction of the next set of contracts.
This season is the time to find out if Morgan is our answer at LT. We have more than a safety net in Walker as he’s been a steal there in RD7. Worst case we have too many good LT and that’s wonderful.

Tom is a Packer through and through, so he’s likely to see his offer coming very soon. If we don’t have to pay a LT $it makes everything everything else easier to swallow for the next 3 seasons.

I also wonder if they don’t see Monk as our Guard in the near future. He has extensive playing time at RG at Duke. As you always say @Dantés the earlier you see success in College the better. Monk started at RT as a Freshman and that was the first OL player in over 15 years to do so in their program. He was moved to RG and played 3 straight seasons holding down RG and eventually some Center mixed in I believe as a 5th year Sr. In 2021 he was part of a unit that set a school record for Rushing TD’s (31)
 
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1)Do the Packers see a legitimate future for Jordan Morgan at tackle or are they just humoring him by allowing him to compete there? Furthermore on the OL, which player(s) are they planning to retain?

I honestly feel they drafted Morgan to be a LT. Spending a 1st Rd pick on an interior lineman isn't the Green Bay norm. If you are going to pay a Tackle, Tom is the elite player, with position versatility all over the line, so my guess is Walker could/should be the odd man out. I also think Jenkins is possibly on his last contract, especially if he struggles at Center. A guy like Simmons would be an interesting option at #23, as if not for the injury, he would most likely be a Top 10 pick this year. Then you could get him right and ready this year if an injury rears it's ugly head, or you could move Morgan to Guard if they really wanted to. I also like Zabel, as he can play anywhere... much like Jenkins, and Tom.

2) Which receiver(s), if any, do the Packers see as long-term contributors and which are they ready to move on from or upgrade?

Long-term I see Wicks, Reed, and Watson. Wicks has the route running ability to be a #1, as long as his drops diminish moving forward. Doubs is out, unless they can do a one yr deal with the concussion and mental issues. One of Melton or Heath misses the final cut this year, possibly both if Hardman performs well on ST's. I like Heath to stay, if any of them do. Also, I think they want to draft some low drop WR's this year, guys like Higgins & Bech should be on the short list early. Badger and Chism as late options.

3) What sort of defensive line are they looking to build for Hafley? Do they have any interest in a 2 gapping skillset or is it all about length and upfield penetration?

I believe it was stated they wanted more pressure from the interior, which makes sense on Harmon. I do think there was an emphasis put on stopping the run last year, and I think who they draft needs to excel at that, also. I like West in the 3rd or 4th, he offers a pass rush but is especially a good run defender. He lined up almost an even split between the A gap and B gap last year.

4) To what degree is the team attributing the lack of edge rush to personnel vs. coaching and how will their lean impact their draft emphasis?

I contribute it more towards coaching. Again the emphasis last yr on the run and holding the edge. Gary wasn't as good at rushing the passer, but he was ranked really high against the run. I do think they would like a situational pass rusher who can really get after the QB. Enagbare could be the odd man out moving forward, and Van Ness needs to show a big jump this year, or he could be on a very short leash

5) How urgently do the Packers feel the need to upgrade from the current players at corner?

I'm leaning to a mid to late round selection, unless a guy like Amos drops to them in the 2nd. I just don't think it's urgent to draft one in the 1st. I see King and/or Hadden getting in the fold this year. If Jaire stays, I just don't see anything until maybe the 5th at the earliest.
 
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2) Which receiver(s), if any, do the Packers see as long-term contributors and which are they ready to move on from or upgrade?

So far they seem high on Wicks I can see why he’s very Davante ish with movement skills. Not suggesting he’s got that ceiling, but after watching him closer he’s likely good #2-#3 option.

I know they like Watson, but his inability to stay on the field has been concerning to say the least. It’s a coin flip he’s gone next season unless he can get back last Qtr of the season and string some performances together.

Between Heath and Melton I’d lean keeping Bo Melton on board as a depth option we can grow. He’s shown glimpses of being legit.

Hardman is on a 1yr placeholder deal.

Doubs shook my confidence in him last year. He’s got to many ? for me it’s nothing personal. He’s 60/40 leaning out of GB next season. He’d have to have a really strong season to change my mind. Like 800+ 8 TD’s etc. + play 15+ games + zero personal issues.

So we’re thin at WR at the top and thin in general going into 2026. The only Wideouts I see firmly in our future past 2025 are Reed and Wicks. Watson is a coin flip and not to be mean but everyone else is expendable.

I’d Quite possibly draft 2 WR’s this year. Ideally a RD2 talent and a RD6-7 type that we can stash on PS if Watson comes back end of regular season or that can be a WR5/6 actor if someone gets injured.
 
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jmo on Malik. I don't think we will be willing to pay him at the end of the season. But I think we want him on the bench all this season. So unless something whacky happens this year; I think he'll be moving on after the year and we'll do whatever we have to do (nothing?), to get a comp pick. We haven't done all that well drafting back up QBs so we might as well wait till the 7th to pick one. I guess one with a cannon.
 

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jmo on Malik. I don't think we will be willing to pay him at the end of the season. But I think we want him on the bench all this season. So unless something whacky happens this year; I think he'll be moving on after the year and we'll do whatever we have to do (nothing?), to get a comp pick. We haven't done all that well drafting back up QBs so we might as well wait till the 7th to pick one. I guess one with a cannon.

The Saints news with Carr has me intrigued....they have the proper and likely value range of picks to build something for him...Pick 93 towards end of third or 112 in the fourth could headline the return for Malik.

If Saints called and offered 93 straight up for Malik I truly think you need to say yes to continue to build your "most likely" champion and don't play the what if game - truth is the odds are strongly against winning it all if Love goes down.

Now you could try to squeeze say their 112 this year in the fourth plus a conditional starting at 6th rounder which could become at the highest a fourth but likely a fifth in 2026 if Malik starts some. We give them Malik and a 7th in 2026 back.
 

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The Saints news with Carr has me intrigued....they have the proper and likely value range of picks to build something for him...Pick 93 towards end of third or 112 in the fourth could headline the return for Malik.

If Saints called and offered 93 straight up for Malik I truly think you need to say yes to continue to build your "most likely" champion and don't play the what if game - truth is the odds are strongly against winning it all if Love goes down.

Now you could try to squeeze say their 112 this year in the fourth plus a conditional starting at 6th rounder which could become at the highest a fourth but likely a fifth in 2026 if Malik starts some. We give them Malik and a 7th in 2026 back.
Wouldn't we get a comp pick based on the salary Malik gets on his next contract? I would not be so quick to practically,imho, give him away when we could get the same comp pick later by just waiting. And I didn't see anything last year that said our season is over if we have Malik at the helm.
 

tynimiller

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Wouldn't we get a comp pick based on the salary Malik gets on his next contract? I would not be so quick to practically,imho, give him away when we could get the same comp pick later by just waiting. And I didn't see anything last year that said our season is over if we have Malik at the helm.

It is the now vs later. So if Malik leaves in the upcoming FA window because we don't resign him. Those compensatory picks would not be gathered until the 2027 draft.

Trading Malik now puts picks much quicker in Gute's "arsenal" if you will in a crucial time many say is a window opening to push.

What's worth more a potential 3rd at most (only if he signs a BIG deal) in 2027 vs a maybe late 3rd or early 4th this year and potentially a conditional in 2026?

There'd for sure be some differing opinions on that, and honestly I could argue value of either approach. I was merely stating the Saints are one team now on my Malik radar if you will - and throwing a reasonable scenario that could present itself.
 

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It is the now vs later. So if Malik leaves in the upcoming FA window because we don't resign him. Those compensatory picks would not be gathered until the 2027 draft.

Trading Malik now puts picks much quicker in Gute's "arsenal" if you will in a crucial time many say is a window opening to push.

What's worth more a potential 3rd at most (only if he signs a BIG deal) in 2027 vs a maybe late 3rd or early 4th this year and potentially a conditional in 2026?

There'd for sure be some differing opinions on that, and honestly I could argue value of either approach. I was merely stating the Saints are one team now on my Malik radar if you will - and throwing a reasonable scenario that could present itself.
And I'm saying we might need him. This year.
 
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Dantés

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1) Do the Packers see a legitimate future for Jordan Morgan at tackle or are they just humoring him by allowing him to compete there? Furthermore on the OL, which player(s) are they planning to retain?

First of all… GREAT questions!

I see pretty strong evidence there was a shift change in Offensive schematic. In past seasons, we were an Outside Zone running scheme. Last season we saw a shift in Dynamic towards an inside Zone scheme. We saw an adaptation to the strengths of Jacobs running style. I’d offer that signing Banks at LG put an official stamp on our intentions.

Our 526 Rushing attempts and 23 Rushing TD were more than any Packers team in recent history. Mike Sherman was our HC and Ahman Green was suited up the last time we ran more than 500+ times (503)

Sean Rhyan has actually been a pleasant surprise at RG after a shaky start. He’s gained the confidence of our OC in a big way and I wouldn’t even be surprised if he gets an earlier, modest extension offer to stay. This draft will spell the direction of the next set of contracts.
This season is the time to find out if Morgan is our answer at LT. We have more than a safety net in Walker as he’s been a steal there in RD7. Worst case we have too many good LT and that’s wonderful.

Tom is a Packer through and through, so he’s likely to see his offer coming very soon. If we don’t have to pay a LT $it makes everything everything else easier to swallow for the next 3 seasons.

I also wonder if they don’t see Monk as our Guard in the near future. He has extensive playing time at RG at Duke. As you always say @Dantés the earlier you see success in College the better. Monk started at RT as a Freshman and that was the first OL player in over 15 years to do so in their program. He was moved to RG and played 3 straight seasons holding down RG and eventually some Center mixed in I believe as a 5th year Sr. In 2021 he was part of a unit that set a school record for Rushing TD’s (31)

If Morgan is at left tackle, I could see Monk functioning as a key iOL backup and then competing for the starting center job in 2026.
 
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The Packers are hosting Isaiah Simmons (LB) and brought back Fitzpatrick at TE.

It really feels like they are setting up to just totally ignore a bunch of positions and double up on others.

A pick in the mid to late rounds at QB wouldn't shock me but I also won't be surprised if they just totally pass on QB, RB, TE, LB, S, and specialists.

That leaves 8 selections (currently) for WR, OL, DL, and CB.

I could easily envision a draft that takes 2 WR, 3 DL, 2 CB, and an OL.
 
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The Packers are hosting Isaiah Simmons (LB) and brought back Fitzpatrick at TE.

It really feels like they are setting up to just totally ignore a bunch of positions and double up on others.

A pick in the mid to late rounds at QB wouldn't shock me but I also won't be surprised if they just totally pass on QB, RB, TE, LB, S, and specialists.

That leaves 8 selections (currently) for WR, OL, DL, and CB.

I could easily envision a draft that takes 2 WR, 3 DL, 2 CB, and an OL.
I’m thinking similar, but
2 DL (DE.iDT)
1-2 OL
2 WR
2 CB’s
1 TE
1 LB

Partly I say this because of lack of pipelining. In our last 35 draft picks across 3 years drafts we’ve taken three 7th Rounders. Tarique Carpenter at #238 , Carrington Valentine at #232 and Kalen King at #255.

I think were stocked at Safety, RB, QB past maybe a later 7th PS type. If we bring in Isaiah Simmons we’re stocked at LB also.

The one upgrade area I’d be very interested in is TE. I’m not positive but I don’t think we have any $ tied to Tyler or Ben either. If a great blocking TE is there we should consider that. My favorite is Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech, he’s a great blocker and actually has the size to match up with NFL Defenders and has a little Kraft rumble down the field in the Passing game. He’s a Big Man as in 6’4.5X255lb, matter of fact the commentators almost always called him that as a sorta nickname during games. He’s not fast, but he’s quick and he’s almost always getting some nice YAC dragging players around or beating up on somebody for fun. This kid is perfect for an extension off of Zach or Morgan to lift our RB

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DoURant

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One guy I've been thinking about is Bullard. He played much better in the slot than deep. If they make a move with him, it could put a Safety in a draft spot.
 
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The Saints news with Carr has me intrigued....they have the proper and likely value range of picks to build something for him...Pick 93 towards end of third or 112 in the fourth could headline the return for Malik.

If Saints called and offered 93 straight up for Malik I truly think you need to say yes to continue to build your "most likely" champion and don't play the what if game - truth is the odds are strongly against winning it all if Love goes down.

Now you could try to squeeze say their 112 this year in the fourth plus a conditional starting at 6th rounder which could become at the highest a fourth but likely a fifth in 2026 if Malik starts some. We give them Malik and a 7th in 2026 back.
For me it would have to be decisive. To peel away Willis it would take their #40 for our #87 straight up. That an area I can live with if he hits and is suddenly on a terror in our Conference. It’s basically a mid to later 2nd rounder value.
It’s also an are I think we can get a similar benefit to what the Saints get.
Otherwise thanks for the offer call me if you change your mind before the draft.

I seriously see GB growing up some this year. Too many 2nd to 4th year starters for a couple not to just pop up and surprise us. We could easily be sitting at a 10-11+ Win team already pre-draft.
Then Give me an array like #23, #40, #54 plus our Day3’s I’m a happy Camper.
 
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Dantés

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One guy I've been thinking about is Bullard. He played much better in the slot than deep. If they make a move with him, it could put a Safety in a draft spot.

I’m not so sure about that. They have starters in McKinley and Williams, plus Oladapo and Anderson who are roster worthy. And if they got banged up there, they have enough corners with slot ability that they could bump Bullard back to safety.
 

DoURant

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I’m not so sure about that. They have starters in McKinley and Williams, plus Oladapo and Anderson who are roster worthy. And if they got banged up there, they have enough corners with slot ability that they could bump Bullard back to safety.
Just trying to make a little more sense of the Isaiah Simmons visit. If they somehow make him an offer, he is considered a hybrid LB/S.
 
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Just trying to make a little more sense of the Isaiah Simmons visit. If they somehow make him an offer, he is considered a hybrid LB/S.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think he's primarily become a linebacker and special teamer.
 
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Here's a factor that I've been thinking about since the two day visit with Emeka Egbuka.

The Packers' 3rd down conversion % dropped 8 points from 2023 to 2024 and a lot of that was because they were 3rd in the league in drops.

Justifiably, a lot has been made about the need for vertical speed with Watson being on the shelf. However, there's also a big need for a reliable chain mover.

Egbuka and Bech both have really low drop rates and strong contested catch percentages.
 

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I seriously see GB growing up some this year. Too many 2nd to 4th year starters for a couple not to just pop up and surprise us. We could easily be sitting at a 10-11+ Win team already pre-draft.
I've felt that way for some time now myself, and I have a hunch Gutekunst is banking on the same thing. Despite the legendary "sophomore slump", statistically Year 2 is the year most young players make the biggest improvement. The second biggest improvement typically comes in Year 3, and this is particularly true of quarterbacks.

I think there are a lot of factors suggesting that the players from the last 2 drafts are going to make Green Bay a much stronger team this season particularly when (as you have pointed out a couple of times) we should be getting back the Three M's - Morgan, Marshawn, and Musgrave, all of whom were high draft picks who missed all or almost all of the season last year.

And consider that despite his injuries and admittedly spotty performance in 24, Love did show significant improvement in some aspects of his game. Put all of these factors together, and I think we're going to have a much improved team. Which mat be another reason Gute was quite content to watch most of the free agent drama from the cheap seats - he's gambling that it's smarter to bide his time and see exactly what he already has on the roster than to overspend filling holes that we may not even have.
 

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