Preseason game 1: Houston vs. GB

[GleefulGary]

Jokes on you. We all knew that already.

I'm a big fan of how he disagrees here. Apparently you are stupid, but also not stupid.

Logical.

 

[swhitset]

What a clown... declaring busts after one preseason game.

Shouldn't we be able to ban people for this level of stupidity?

Lol... he isn’t even on my ignore list. I need some humor.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Outside linebackers coach Mike Smith
On Gary:
“With Gary, you just can’t throw everything at him at once, especially at outside linebacker, him standing up all the time. Every little technique we’ve got to master. I’m happy where he’s at. He’s a good player, good kid, practices hard. He’s going. Eventually we have to start tying it in and bring it on game day.”

“Once he starts grasping all these things, he’s going to be a dangerous man, I can promise you that.”

So what are "all these things"? Let's count the ways edge rushers win.

• Dip and rip: The classic move of many elite edge rushers where they get under the OT's hands with the dip and then use burst and redirectional quickness, the rip. It's a 2.5 second sell-out move where the player is head down and not in position to block the throwing lane to the flat, bat a ball down or defend against the QB stepping up and out of the pocket. These are not small things with QBs getting shorter and quicker. Besides, some DCs are not fond of the dip and rip. Capers was on the record stating he did not want to see his edges going around the pocket which is where that dip and rip move takes you if the QB steps up or if the edge does not win off the snap. Matthews and Perry were both capable of that move, but you didn't see it very often; they played head up with pocket contain. If you're going to play a lot of man coverage, Pettine's approach, pocket contain is essential unless the QB is pocket passing statue, a dying breed. Perry would bring out his dip and rip about twice a year, an ad lib move by all appearances, one of those "no, no, yes, yes!" moments if the edge gets home. Some very good edge rushers don't have this move anyway, especially the lengthy guys. I doubt this is something Gary will develop. Did you ever see Peppers dip and rip in his time in Green Bay? I don't think so, and that Peppers dynamic is what Gary is supposed to recreate.

• Punch: Good OTs have a good punch; hit the guy in the pads, get inside his body, grab the jersey, slow his roll. A good edge rusher playing head-up can beat him to the punch, keeping the OT off his body. They don't measure arm length and hand size on these guys for nothing. A good edge punch can get the OT off balance or allow a redirect inside if the QB steps up. Arm and hand dimensions are only a starting point to suggest an upside; they need to be put to work with technique. Gary measured 34 1/8" arms and 9 5/8" hands, enough raw material for the job. You'll be hard pressed to find a good edge who does not have good hand work. This is where Gary needs most to improve. In this one game, we saw OTs getting inside his body and controlling him.

• Bull rush: This is something Gary can do. He got a lot of push into the pocket in preseason game 1 even with the OTs up inside his body but he didn't get home, second team OTs such as it was. There was one rush where he pushed the OT back and shoved off his block but was a shade late to get the hit or sack, with Gary showing evident frustration. If Gary does not develop a more varied repertoire, first team OTs will know that's what they have to defend. OT pass blocking is about hands, feet, position, balance and mind. You have to bring something besides a quck burst off the ball and brute strength to get them off balance or questioning what to expect.

• Inside move: Spin move, swim move or a set-up, the latter involving a fake as it were, a cross step, a shoulder fake, something that gets the OT off balance, then hand work to push by a reach block, best executed from the blind side on an ad lib since pocket contain is given up. Gary looks to be a long way from executing the inside move.

• Stunt: A called play with the edge looping inside with somebody else taking on pocket contain, be it a DT looping out or a LB or DB coming up or blitzing. Early in preseason game 1, Gary ran a couple of stunts and got stopped in traffic at the line. Team execution was not sharp, but Gary evidently did something wrong on these stunts with a sideline shot of coach explaining something to him with a looping arm motion.

So, what we have so far is the same player we saw on the college tape, speed-to-power to burn, not much in the way of technique. The first order of business is getting him to use his hands better. After that, he needs to develop some kind of inside move, invidually or schematically through stunts. Half the battle in this game is in not being predictable. If the only effective move is burst with bull rush, it won't be effective for very long against NFL OTs.

It's not uncommon for first round edge rushers to be rotational players in their rookie season. That was pretty much in the cards for Gary anyway with the Smiths on board. You often find these guys in on passing downs where they have less to think about. At this level you can't get away with just out-talenting lesser opponents or 19 year olds. Most of these edge guys come in short on technique. The book is open. This is the first live action game he's played with next to no live action practice; this is why we have preseason. "Bust" is a word being used prematurely.

 

[OldSchool101]

One thing I noticed that’s carried over from previous years is our lack of physicality by CBs against Receivers inside the 5 yard allowable. It’s like we’re playing an intimidated mixture of zone and man to man simultaneously.

We get an adequate pass rush, but our secondary plays 5+ yards off receivers and allow them to go through their early route progressions freely, without contest. Then, as the QB senses impending pressure, he is able to hit his 1st read Receiver at near the exact timing they’ve repeatedly practiced it. Had the QBs first-second read been smothered or rerouted? An above average pressure passing D is smothering the QB and making them force the throw. This may not be as evident against lesser QBs (although I saw Webb take advantage several times in replaying the game) but seasoned Vets will rip us a new one.

If we don’t trust our pash rush? Then please, By all means, play 10+ yards off the LOS.
But you don’t invest this much in disrupting the pocket only to let the better passers, Ryan, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Rothy etc.. eat you alive in the short passing game. There needs to be a more concerted FULL court press in conjunction with us sending in an extra body to disrupt the pocket. It doesn’t need to be every down, but it absolutely does need to be.

We are getting some QB pressure, and that’s good, but If we can implement more all inclusive defensive plays vs. everyone playing on their own island? we’d be very dangerous. That said, I do realize this is a preseason game, so I know that’s leaning critical this early in.

 

[Heyjoe4]

1st rounders declared busts after 1 preseason game, and the DB's considered a failure after 6 plays in the first game. We have some overreactionary posters in our midsts LOL

D’ya Think?!?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

24 Missed Tackles by the Packers. However the good news, the OL didn't allow a sack or hit on a QB, I hope the starting OL can keep #12 that clean!

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/10/matt-lafleur-says-packers-missed-24-tackles-vs-texans/

 

[Mondio]

One thing I noticed that’s carried over from previous years is our lack of physicality by CBs against Receivers inside the 5 yard allowable. It’s like we’re playing an intimidated mixture of zone and man to man simultaneously.

We get an adequate pass rush, but our secondary plays 5+ yards off receivers and allow them to go through their early route progressions freely, without contest. Then, as the QB senses impending pressure, he is able to hit his 1st read Receiver at near the exact timing they’ve repeatedly practiced it. Had the QBs first-second read been smothered or rerouted? An above average pressure passing D is smothering the QB and making them force the throw. This may not be as evident against lesser QBs (although I saw Webb take advantage several times in replaying the game) but seasoned Vets will rip us a new one.

If we don’t trust our pash rush? Then please, By all means, play 10+ yards off the LOS.
But you don’t invest this much in disrupting the pocket only to let the better passers, Ryan, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Rothy etc.. eat you alive in the short passing game. There needs to be a more concerted FULL court press in conjunction with us sending in an extra body to disrupt the pocket. It doesn’t need to be every down, but it absolutely does need to be.

We are getting some QB pressure, and that’s good, but If we can implement more all inclusive defensive plays vs. everyone playing on their own island? we’d be very dangerous. That said, I do realize this is a preseason game, so I know that’s leaning critical this early in.

Keep in mind, it's preseason game #1. I don't think there was a single starter in the defensive backfield, and maybe 1-2 "starters" sprinkled in between Dline and linebackers at any one time in that game.

The object is to run personnel groupings, see who's good at what and put them in positions to evaluate them. For example, I noticed #48 with some pretty good coverage earlier on in the game, even on a completion against him, he had really good coverage, just a great catch. And then later he was playing off quite a bit. Probably nothing more than running things to get it on film to coach from later.

It's not only important to be able to play press, but it's also important to be able to play off, react and have the guys over the top, or underneath be sound in their assignments as well or the other guys is going to look bad. I can't claim to have watched the game close enough to have broken down all the defenses by any means, but it's something to keep in mind when judging what you saw.

 

[OldSchool101]

Keep in mind, it's preseason game #1. I don't think there was a single starter in the defensive backfield, and maybe 1-2 "starters" sprinkled in between Dline and linebackers at any one time in that game.

The object is to run personnel groupings, see who's good at what and put them in positions to evaluate them. For example, I noticed #48 with some pretty good coverage earlier on in the game, even on a completion against him, he had really good coverage, just a great catch. And then later he was playing off quite a bit. Probably nothing more than running things to get it on film to coach from later.

It's not only important to be able to play press, but it's also important to be able to play off, react and have the guys over the top, or underneath be sound in their assignments as well or the other guys is going to look bad. I can't claim to have watched the game close enough to have broken down all the defenses by any means, but it's something to keep in mind when judging what you saw.

I know. it is game 1 preseason. So it is some harsh criticism. But that said, 2 of my top 4 or so areas I believe are to crucial improve on we have seemingly left unchanged or gotten worse. The other is discipline and committed fouls, especially on ST where they are very costly, moving a 40 yard return back -10 for a 50 yard swing etc.. I’ll leave the other dynamics alone but to say ST unit MUST be a major focus. We can’t start games with blocking in the back like Thursday. I’d make it policy that the next ST player with penalty yardage exceeding 10 yards goes directly to talk to the HC, then the ST Coordinator, then he sits out a game. Mandatory.

I will say something positive tho and that is we desperately needed to press the turnover ratio and there’s a noticeable focus there. DBs are more determined to strip the ball or turn back to go after a jump ball scenario like “they” are the receiver. That’s a huge factor in the success of a team IMO, as its negates many Defensive interference calls. TO ratio is also one obvious component of successful teams.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers LB Oren Burks is believed to have a torn pectoral muscle, according to a source. More tests are scheduled to determine the course of action, but given that Burks was penciled in as a starter in the base defense, it leaves a hole in the D.

 

[PackFan2]

Offense:
- JMon Moore needs alot of work. Not ready to cut him, just because of investment but other undrafted guys have clearly leaped over him. Kumerow is what we thought he is. Reliable and crisp route runner. I like that Sheppard kid, give him more reps.
- Kizer had an okay game. His receivers didn't help but he also didn't place the ball well (though majority were catchable). I'd like to see Wilkins get more playtime. Boyle is playing more consistent than Kizer.
- I thought our o-line did very well. However, Cole Madison looks rusty and it shows .Madison will need to shake off that rust and show up in the next games else he's landing on practice squad.
- overall, I can see the empasis on the run game from LaFleur. If our run game doesnt work, what other plan do we have? Curious to see how and what LaFleur does in response to it.

Defense
- definitely ahead of our offense - poor job tackling but that's every start of football season. Will need to get it cleaned up.
- Sad to see Burks go down, but glad others stepped up. Ty Summers looked great other than some of the missed tackles (other players also look rusty tackling). I also thought Curtis Bolton looked great in coverage and even though he's much smaller he did an awesome job shedding blocks.
- Ento and Brown looked great.

 

[rmontro]

My main impression was that I was unimpressed with the defense. Even though yeah, it's early, and yeah it was mainly second string or worse. The way they couldn't get off the field on third down just looked way too familiar. Nice to see the turnovers though.

Also nice to see Pettine on the field. Maybe I'm old fashioned, and maybe it makes no real difference, but it's nice to see him down there where he can interact with the players.

Where is Joe Webb on the Texans depth chart?

 

[gbgary]

replay of the game now starting on nfl network.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I know. it is game 1 preseason. So it is some harsh criticism. But that said, 2 of my top 4 or so areas I believe are to crucial improve on we have seemingly left unchanged or gotten worse. The other is discipline and committed fouls, especially on ST where they are very costly, moving a 40 yard return back -10 for a 50 yard swing etc.. I’ll leave the other dynamics alone but to say ST unit MUST be a major focus. We can’t start games with blocking in the back like Thursday. I’d make it policy that the next ST player with penalty yardage exceeding 10 yards goes directly to talk to the HC, then the ST Coordinator, then he sits out a game. Mandatory.

I will say something positive tho and that is we desperately needed to press the turnover ratio and there’s a noticeable focus there. DBs are more determined to strip the ball or turn back to go after a jump ball scenario like “they” are the receiver. That’s a huge factor in the success of a team IMO, as its negates many Defensive interference calls. TO ratio is also one obvious component of successful teams.

Well, this is where I say thank god these games don't count so we can rectify special teams by season start. I'd say our current struggles there are an indictment on our former STC who was so vomatrocious he made Slocum look like a genius. When you cause a bigger mess on ST than Capers made on D, it's going to take a while for the next guy to clean it up.

 

[rmontro]

Well, this is where I say thank god these games don't count so we can rectify special teams by season start.

On the other hand, if they did count we'd be 1-0.

I really hope they get it together this year because the Packers are starting to form an identity out of having lousy defense and special teams.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My main impression was that I was unimpressed with the defense. Even though yeah, it's early, and yeah it was mainly second string or worse. The way they couldn't get off the field on third down just looked way too familiar. Nice to see the turnovers though.

Also nice to see Pettine on the field. Maybe I'm old fashioned, and maybe it makes no real difference, but it's nice to see him down there where he can interact with the players.

Where is Joe Webb on the Texans depth chart?

I also prefer seeing the DC on the field. Especially the ones with some fire in their personality. I think it brings Pettine closer to his players and his players closer to the source of motivational fire.

Joe Webb is the 3rd string QB behind Watson and McCarron.

 

[RRyder]

I also prefer seeing the DC on the field. Especially the ones with some fire in their personality. I think it brings Pettine closer to his players and his players closer to the source of motivational fire.

Joe Webb is the 3rd string QB behind Watson and McCarron.

As far as I'm concerned OC and DC are better off in the booth where they can see everything. I think the whole "i want them on the sideline" is largely a fox hole type mentality that generally doesnt offer much more then giving them a worse view of what the other team is doing.

If they need motivation then that's the HC job

 

[OldSchool101]

As far as I'm concerned OC and DC are better off in the booth where they can see everything. I think the whole "i want them on the sideline" is largely a fox hole type mentality that generally doesnt offer much more then giving them a worse view of what the other team is doing.

If they need motivation then that's the HC job

While I respect your opinion. The players themselves have been reported as saying they appreciate having their DC on the sideline, so if it’s motivation I don’t see the harm.
I personally like the fact they give the DC authority to make the call of what’s more comfortable for his personal objectives. Either one is fine, but let’s not pigeon hole him. It’s not like our last DC was some exemplary mode of success in the booth. He could barely keep his toupee on innthe booth, much less orchestrate an intricate Defensive strategy.

 

[rmontro]

As far as I'm concerned OC and DC are better off in the booth where they can see everything. I think the whole "i want them on the sideline" is largely a fox hole type mentality that generally doesnt offer much more then giving them a worse view of what the other team is doing.

If they need motivation then that's the HC job

You might be right, but I don't know, the DC is their team leader on some level.
I'm sure Pettine is getting pics and videos from the upper view anyway.
It may not mean anything, but I get a better feeling with him on the field. So maybe the players do too.

I would look at the greatest defenses of the last 10-20 years. Was the DC on the field or up in the booth?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If they need motivation then that's the HC job

When your HC is also running the offense, that is spreading him pretty thin IMO.

Pettine has eyes in the sky as well as access to all the video if need be. Also, its not like standing on the sideline blinds him from what is going on down on the field. If anything, I think being in the trenches and near the players will give him a better sense of what is actually going on. Let the assistants give their reports directly to Pettine from the press box, but lets see how Pettine does from the sidelines, I for one am looking forward to the change.

 

[OldSchool101]

When your HC is also running the offense, that is spreading him pretty thin IMO.

Pettine has eyes in the sky as well as access to all the video if need be. Also, its not like standing on the sideline blinds him from what is going on down on the field. If anything, I think being in the trenches and near the players will give him a better sense of what is actually going on. Let the assistants give their reports directly to Pettine from the press box, but lets see how Pettine does from the sidelines, I for one am looking forward to the change.

Me also. But then again.. I might be thinkin’ fundamental oldschool

 

[mradtke66]

as well as access to all the video if need be

This part is false. Video of any kind is not allowed on the sidelines. Static pictures only.

 

[rmontro]

This part is false. Video of any kind is not allowed on the sidelines. Static pictures only.

Interesting. I had figured they had access to video because of the Ipad-like tablets they use on the sidelines. But thanks for the info.

If you look at all the successful defenses that have had the DC on the sideline though, I think that pretty much demonstrates that they can keep track of what's going on without being in a booth.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This part is false. Video of any kind is not allowed on the sidelines. Static pictures only.

I did not know that as well, thanks. I assume the coaches in the booth don't have access to video either?

This article talks about the push by some to allow it.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...hes-fought-table-access-video-sidelines-games

This article talks about OC's in the boot or on the sideline and its a mixed bag. I assume the same could be said about DC's.

https://www.sbnation.com/2016/11/23...falcons-chargers-eagles-coaches-kyle-shanahan

 

[mradtke66]

I think the booth/sideline thing is overblown.

You've got less than 40 seconds to assess the down and distance, confirm the offensive personnel grouping, adjust your personnel accordingly, call the play, and then watch and figure out whats going on each play. Then repeat.

When a playcaller's side of the ball is on the field, he's not doing much other than watching and calling plays. Interaction with any players other than man with the radio in his helmet is negligible--there just isn't time. Chatter with the position coaches I'm sure is near constant.

I also wonder how much direct-from-coordinator to players there is. Again, guessing, but each platoon is large. Wouldn't most communication happen Coordinator -> Position Coaches -> Players?

I assume the coaches in the booth don't have access to video either?

As far as I know, zip, zero, zilch. (Though I'm sure the occasional replay on the jumbo-tron is fair game. How could it not?)

Which is why I don't mind have a coordinator up high watching the play. It's possible he'll see a tell or trend in real-time and adjust his calls accordingly. Those static pictures don't get compiled and dropped off until the other unit takes the field. If there's a quick turnover, he might not even be able to receive them, let alone digest what they mean.

I also don't mind having the coordinator on the sideline. If that's what he thinks is the best way for him to get his point across do that.

Each seems to have benefits and drawbacks. I think many here seem to completely ignore the benefits of being up the booth.

 

[rmontro]

Each seems to have benefits and drawbacks. I think many here seem to completely ignore the benefits of being up the booth.

I'm no expert, but I would guess that most real adjustments happen between drives. Other than that, I would think down and distance are bigger factors in the defensive setup.

Surely if an assistant in the booth noticed something important it would be communicated quickly. You also hear tales of players on the field noticing key weaknesses or issues.