Preseason 4 Rams Studs/Duds

[BrokenArrow]

Fortunately, I was also basing it on last years regular season performance as well (posted elsewhere). In 2016, Janis average 19.8 yds/return. That really isn't very good. Packers were 24th in the league with a 19.7 average. The Vikings led the league at 27.3 yards. Janis wasn't doing much different in the preseason returning kicks that he wasn't doing in the regular season. I know you accused me of picking on Jeff, but stats are hard to ignore.

And I don't think anyone has ever claimed he is a great kick returner. He has had some nice punt returns though. I'm also pretty sure I never accused you of "picking on" anyone. I merely was articulating my disagreement with your assessment that McCaffery should/would make the team over Janis.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And I don't think anyone has ever claimed he is a great kick returner. He has had some nice punt returns though. I'm also pretty sure I never accused you of "picking on" anyone. I merely was articulating my disagreement with your assessment that McCaffery should/would make the team over Janis.

Janis has never returned a punt in the regular season or preseason...ever. So your claim that he has had some nice punt returns kind of shows me where your bias and facts are.

You never accused me of picking on him?

First, I don't have a "Janis hat." Second it was in direct response to your ridiculous ascertainment that Janis has only had success against "rookies and car salesmen"... a comment BTW that exposes your obvious disdain for JJ for whatever reason. Curiously, you have some pretty high praise for some other WRs based on preseason play. Yet you make no mention of all the rookies and car salesmen that have been covering them.

Again, Larry McCarren and several others are also saying he's looking pretty good. But I guess they're idiots too, right?

I will repeat what I said last week. I hope JJ has a Pro Bowl career with the Packers, but I don't think he will. He has yet to show me anything that leads me to believe he will. While he has proved himself as a good gunner, that is about it.....and the reason he made the team. IMO, I think McCaffrey has more upside, the Packers obviously didn't agree with me.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Janis has never returned a punt in the regular season or preseason...ever. So your claim that he has had some nice punt returns kind of shows me where your bias and facts are.

You never accused me of picking on him?

Nope. I said it was clear that you had obvious disdain for him. Why? Because no matter what positive things he does, you remain dismissive and refuse to acknowledge any progress that he has shown. I told you he was going to make the team and you continue to insist that he shouldn't have.

IMO, I think McCaffrey has more upside, the Packers obviously didn't agree with me.

So what makes you think you know better than the coaches who watched him play every single day? Are you saying they're wrong? The Packers clearly know better.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Nope. I said it was clear that you had obvious disdain for him. Why? Because no matter what positive things he does, you remain dismissive and refuse to acknowledge any progress that he has shown. I told you he was going to make the team and you continue to insist that he shouldn't have.

If your desire for him and prediction of Janis making the team proves to me that I am wrong about Janis, then nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

So what makes you think you know better than the coaches who watched him play every single day? Are you saying they're wrong? The Packers clearly know better.

The Packers staff has never made a mistake on a player? I am not allowed an opinion because it goes directly against yours or the Packers FO? This forum is a sham, because some/most question the Packers FO?

Let's get back to all these great Punt returns he has had. All this praise MM has heaped on him.

Bottom line.....Janis made the 53 because the Packers like him as a gunner. If you want to believe otherwise, you are entitled to believe that. If you will look at my prediction for my final 53, you will see I predicted Janis not getting cut.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If your desire for him and prediction of Janis making the team proves to me that I am wrong about Janis, then nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

My "desire for him?" Whatever, dude. Where's that "ignore" feature?

 

[Poppa San]

n 2016, Janis average 19.8 yds/return. That really isn't very good. Packers were 24th in the league with a 19.7 average.

Yep, Janis average was the worst of all 4 Packers that had more than one KR. 6 returns is a very small dataset to choose from. The 29+Y/R from 2015 is what posters remember. Even then he didn't lead the team.

 

[Mondio]

I'd agree Max probably has more upside than Janis as a receiver, but I don't think he has more than Davis, Allison, Cobb, or Jordy. Toss in 3 very worthy TE's and our passing attack is about as strong as one could reasonably hope for. I hope he can come back to the PS, he was definitely the most worthy of all the young WR's that were cut. on a Lesser roster of passing targets he probably makes the team. Besides the real specialists like LS, holder and kick/punters, it's not unusual to keep a guy for his special teams attributes. Our guy happens to be Janis.

 

[Sky King]

McCarthy puts a premium on ball security. My guess is that he would prefer sure-handed with modest returns versus the occasional fumble contrasted by a few long returns over the course of the season. Jordy fit that profile when he was returning KOs. With this historically shaky defense I can't blame him for the preference. A fumble could result in back-to-back scores by the opposition.

Janis has been sure-handed even when he's gotten popped pretty good. If he coughs up the ball expect to see someone else returning kicks in short order. One fumble may be forgiven but I doubt two or more would be forgiven or forgotten anytime soon.

 

[swhitset]

McCarthy puts a premium on ball security. My guess is that he would prefer sure-handed with modest returns versus the occasional fumble contrasted by a few long returns over the course of the season. Jordy fit that profile when he was returning KOs. With this historically shaky defense I can't blame him for the preference. A fumble could result in back-to-back scores by the opposition.

Janis has been sure-handed even when he's gotten popped pretty good. If he coughs up the ball expect to see someone else returning kicks in short order. One fumble may be forgiven but I doubt two or more would be forgiven or forgotten anytime soon.

Davis......

 

[Sky King]

Davis......

Perfect example of that. He sat him down last year after the fumble. Had he not taken one to the house this preseason BEFORE he fumbled he may have sat for quite a while once again this season, too.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Perfect example of that. He sat him down last year after the fumble. Had he not taken one to the house this preseason BEFORE he fumbled he may have sat for quite a while once again this season, too.

I actually think that one he took to the house, put him on the 53......the one he fumbled the next week, may have put him closer to "do we keep Davis or McCaffrey?".

 

[OldSchool101]

I believe every kickoff return in the preseason.

If you take a knee in the end zone, ball goes out to the 25. From memory, Janis has returned one past the 25 this preseason and there were 2 holding penalties on the Packers called during it. So net yardage, if a ball is kicked into the endzone and you decide to run it out and you get tackled before the 25, is really a loss of yards. He also had the muffed kick at the goal line against the Eagles. For too long now, Janis appears to make bad decisions on when to return it and when to just kneel. Also, when he does return a ball, it's nothing special, it appears he just runs it right up the middle of the field, hoping someone creates a hole, and gets tackled short of the 25.

Interesting view.
Jeff Janis ranked 6th in individual KR average in the entire league! Only 2 players had a KR
average >= 25 yards per attempt. Just 2!
Also GB was #12 (top 33%) in the preseason in yards per KR. 4 more of those top 12 were within .5 yards greater than GB.
27 teams had KR averages less than 25 yards per during the preseason.
One thing people forget is how minimal the difference is between the chances of scoring while starting at their own 25 vs say.. their own 22. But it takes one missed tackle to put 7 points on the board and swing momentum (see the 1996 season Superbowl; thank you Desmond)
A KR shouldn't be punished or held accountable in any way for a sour block that creates a foul. Especially if he comes very near to breaking it for TD which Jeff did this preseason

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting view.
Jeff Janis ranked 6th in individual KR average in the entire league! Only 2 players had a KR
average >= 25 yards per attempt. Just 2!
Also GB was #12 (top 33%) in the preseason in yards per KR. 4 more of those top 12 were within .5 yards greater than GB.
27 teams had KR averages less than 25 yards per during the preseason.
One thing people forget is how minimal the difference is between the chances of scoring while starting at their own 25 vs say.. their own 22. But it takes one missed tackle to put 7 points on the board and swing momentum (see the 1996 season Superbowl; thank you Desmond)
A KR shouldn't be punished or held accountable in any way for a sour block that creates a foul. Especially if he comes very near to breaking it for TD which Jeff did this preseason

Guessing your "6th ranked" is in the preseason? Guessing Hundley and Hill were pretty highly rated QB's comparatively speaking in the preseason too Might want to look at 2016 regular season as a better gauge? Janis can be found down at #90 for you to look at his stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/returns.htm

Anyway, while I understand what you are saying about the shot at a long return, keep in mind that when a returner decides to return a ball, instead of taking a knee and getting the ball at the 25, he is also creating the potential for 2 negatives (besides not getting the ball past the 25), the possibility of a turnover or a penalty.

Janis is our kick returner it appears, you are happy about it, I am not. Let's hope his decisions this season net us positive yards.

 

[NJPackfan..]

Personally, I don't think the Packers have trading Hundley in their short range plans, maybe not even 1+ year plan. All the snaps he got were to get him ready to be what he is being paid to be, #12's backup. If Packers were in rebuild mode, I could see trading Hundley if his value was high enough, but they aren't and they may need Hundley in 2017 and even in 2018. Until either a suitable #2 is found to take his place or his contract runs out, the Packers are probably best served by Hundley being on a rookie contract and eventually becoming a mid range compensatory pick.

Next year when he becomes a FA

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Personally, I don't think the Packers have trading Hundley in their short range plans, maybe not even 1+ year plan. All the snaps he got were to get him ready to be what he is being paid to be, #12's backup. If Packers were in rebuild mode, I could see trading Hundley if his value was high enough, but they aren't and they may need Hundley in 2017 and even in 2018. Until either a suitable #2 is found to take his place or his contract runs out, the Packers are probably best served by Hundley being on a rookie contract and eventually becoming a mid range compensatory pick.

The Packers would have definitely though about trading Hundley if the team would have been offered a day 2 pick this offseason. I highly doubt that happened solely based on his performance during the preseason though.

Next year when he becomes a FA

Hundley is under contract with the Packers through the 2018 season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers would have definitely though about trading Hundley if the team would have been offered a day 2 pick this offseason. I highly doubt that happened solely based on his performance during the preseason though.

Had the Packers traded Hundley in the offseason, I doubt we are sitting with Calahan or Hill as our #2. For every action there is a reaction...somehow the Packers would have had to procure a suitable backup for AR. I'm fine with the way it worked out. A second draft pick also may not have started paying dividends, if at all, for several years. At least Hundley is an average insurance policy, which to me is an immediate dividend.