Pick ONE positional weakness for Offense/Defense/ST

[Fat Dogs]

His athleticism was not the problem.

I understand the trepidation. He chose the worst time to have an off year but any mental collapses last season are excusable for pretty much anybody. The guy fits the profile. 5 star recruit coming out of HS. Butkus award finalist along side Josh Allen (#7 pick) and Devin Bush (#10 pick) in 2018.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But that is where you are wrong. It’s the exact opposite if we run the Tampa 2. The ILB is on the island. He’s responsible for covering a lot of area and fast. Your CB sits in a zone. Josh Jackson earned a 2nd round draft pick for playing it so well in college. The Packers drafted him and expected him to play man. That obviously failed. We have no idea what he’s capable of in his natural scheme. I can see him or Sullivan filling that spot if not, It is waaaaaayyy easier to find zone corners than one that has to lock up man to man.

Once again, while I agree that the Packers would benefit of having more talent at inside linebacker it's not as important as upgrading the cornerback position.

There's no reason to rely on Josh Jackson entering next season by any means, especially after he was a healthy scratch for most games down the road in 2020.

 

[GleefulGary]

I understand the trepidation. He chose the worst time to have an off year but any mental collapses last season are excusable for pretty much anybody. The guy fits the profile. 5 star recruit coming out of HS. Butkus award finalist along side Josh Allen (#7 pick) and Devin Bush (#10 pick) in 2018.

Naw. Dude played bad. Tape don’t lie, and NFL teams don’t care about awards in college.

 

[GleefulGary]

But that is where you are wrong. It’s the exact opposite if we run the Tampa 2. The ILB is on the island. He’s responsible for covering a lot of area and fast. Your CB sits in a zone. Josh Jackson earned a 2nd round draft pick for playing it so well in college. The Packers drafted him and expected him to play man. That obviously failed. We have no idea what he’s capable of in his natural scheme. I can see him or Sullivan filling that spot if not, It is waaaaaayyy easier to find zone corners than one that has to lock up man to man.

There is so much wrong here, but I’ll just say this.

Mike Pettine played a lot of zone defense this past year. Josh Jackson still didn’t see the field.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Once again, while I agree that the Packers would benefit of having more talent at inside linebacker it's not as important as upgrading the cornerback position.

There's no reason to rely on Josh Jackson entering next season by any means, especially after he was a healthy scratch for most games down the road in 2020.

That’s fine. I’m sure 90% of the people on here have your same view. I would bet the house that Gute has something up his sleeve at ILB because running this D without it is like running the Ravens offense with Tom Brady at QB. I fully expect a blockbuster trade/big name signing/aggressive trade up in the first or second to get our guy.

 

[GleefulGary]

That’s fine. I’m sure 90% of the people on here have your same view. I would bet the house that Gute has something up his sleeve at ILB because running this D without it is like running the Ravens offense with Tom Brady at QB. I fully expect a blockbuster trade/big name signing/aggressive trade up in the first or second to get our guy.

I’m so confused on where you’re coming from.

The Rams run this defense with Troy Reeder and Kenny Young at ILB. They’re not exactly a who’s who of great LB play.

The Broncos run a very similar defense with Alexander Johnson and Josey Jewell at ILB. Again, not premium players.

The trending line of this style defense doesn’t seem to line up with your hypothesis.

 

[gopkrs]

Barnes played very well last season and I think he will improve. Kirksey played much better after Barnes started playing. Martin ...who knows? Just saying we need someone competent to go along with Barnes. Not looking to break the bank on one.

 

[GleefulGary]

Barnes played very well last season and I think he will improve. Kirksey played much better after Barnes started playing. Martin ...who knows? Just saying we need someone competent to go along with Barnes. Not looking to break the bank on one.

Highly doubt we see Kirksey back.

 

[gopkrs]

Highly doubt we see Kirksey back.

Maybe not but think Gute can find a competent player w/o trading up in the first round (or even using a first round pick). I agree it is an important position. But Barnes has helped us out a lot there. He is a big reason why we started being able to do well against the run.

 

[tynimiller]

Maybe not but think Gute can find a competent player w/o trading up in the first round (or even using a first round pick). I agree it is an important position. But Barnes has helped us out a lot there. He is a big reason why we started being able to do well against the run.

Competent, for sure 100%. Elite, eh zero way of knowing...but Zaven Collins, Nick Bolton, Jabril Cox, Chazz Surratt and Baron Browning are quick 5 I know have a chance at being there at end of 1st, a few even possibly in the second at our pick. All 5 of those guys would immediately find a role if not the starting role by mid-season on our roster I think or even out the gate IMO.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Only reason to draft an ILB highly is off you think he's going to be an All-Pro, and those guys generally go in the top-15. There's a reason most teams value the ILB as pretty much the lowest value position on defense. Packers need to improve at corner and dline far more than at ILB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would bet the house that Gute has something up his sleeve at ILB because running this D without it is like running the Ravens offense with Tom Brady at QB. I fully expect a blockbuster trade/big name signing/aggressive trade up in the first or second to get our guy.

I highly doubt the Packers will make a blockbuster trade for an inside linebacker nor will they have the cap space to make a big name signing at the position.

 

[tynimiller]

Only reason to draft an ILB highly is off you think he's going to be an All-Pro, and those guys generally go in the top-15. There's a reason most teams value the ILB as pretty much the lowest value position on defense. Packers need to improve at corner and dline far more than at ILB.

And arguably the only pure ILB I think is a lock to just be insane good is Micah Parsons - who may very well be a scumbag of a person, so even if he falls he doesn't fit the Packer game.

Zaven Collins is the next ILB guy I sense that will be special anywhere he goes. Dude has it. Bolton will be in the league a LONG time but he doesn't stretch the field...Cox appears to be a Collins like guy, but there's no telling for sure...I love Surratt's processing ability but is still young at the position....

 

[Fat Dogs]

I’m so confused on where you’re coming from.

The Rams run this defense with Troy Reeder and Kenny Young at ILB. They’re not exactly a who’s who of great LB play.

The Broncos run a very similar defense with Alexander Johnson and Josey Jewell at ILB. Again, not premium players.

The trending line of this style defense doesn’t seem to line up with your hypothesis.

The Broncos D wasn’t good and the Rams have the best defender in football. The Packers can go without if our D tackles reek havoc and combine for 20 sacs. I’ll correct my statement. 99% of teams that run this type of D and want to be good on that side of the ball and don’t have a F.H.O.F. Lineman need a stud to man the middle.

 

[Poppa San]

I’ll correct my statement.

IOW

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[Fat Dogs]

Only reason to draft an ILB highly is off you think he's going to be an All-Pro, and those guys generally go in the top-15. There's a reason most teams value the ILB as pretty much the lowest value position on defense. Packers need to improve at corner and dline far more than at ILB.

Packers fans are brain washed into this kind of thinking and looks where its gotten us. Bad ILB play for a decade.Teams draft ILB/RB/WR early every year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Broncos D wasn’t good and the Rams have the best defender in football. The Packers can go without if our D tackles reek havoc and combine for 20 sacs. I’ll correct my statement. 99% of teams that run this type of D and want to be good on that side of the ball and don’t have a F.H.O.F. Lineman need a stud to man the middle.

There isn't a single poster arguing that having a stud inside linebacker won't improve the defense. But there shouldn't be any doubt that having talent at other positions is more important for the unit's success.

 

[GleefulGary]

The Broncos D wasn’t good and the Rams have the best defender in football. The Packers can go without if our D tackles reek havoc and combine for 20 sacs. I’ll correct my statement. 99% of teams that run this type of D and want to be good on that side of the ball and don’t have a F.H.O.F. Lineman need a stud to man the middle.

It’s almost like the Broncos had a ton of important injuries and a ****** offense that impacted the defense.

Look at Fangio’s defenses lately. He hasn’t had a stud ILB.

It would be really nice to have a great ILB, but it isn’t a necessity. Acting like that defense requires one goes against the logic of everybody that runs that defense. I think I’ll trust them over you.

 

[Mondio]

Great ILB's like Great anything else are great to have. None of them are necessities on their own and teams can be built many different ways. Great O's carry mediocre D's. Great Dlines carry mediocre DB's. Stud ILB's create situations where you can use everyone else differently because your ILB's can do absolutely everything. average QB's are made better by Great Olines.

None of them are necessary on their own, but you do have to find a way to build a team regardless. Weaknesses have to be accounted for and the fewer the better, that is certain.

 

[GleefulGary]

Great ILB's like Great anything else are great to have. None of them are necessities on their own and teams can be built many different ways. Great O's carry mediocre D's. Great Dlines carry mediocre DB's. Stud ILB's create situations where you can use everyone else differently because your ILB's can do absolutely everything. average QB's are made better by Great Olines.

None of them are necessary on their own, but you do have to find a way to build a team regardless. Weaknesses have to be accounted for and the fewer the better, that is certain.

This is all true, but some positional weaknesses are easier to cover than others.

If you have great LB’s and a bad DL, you’ll still end up with poor LB play.

Basically, it’s not that LB’s aren’t important, they just aren’t as important as other positions.






Note: when I say LB’s, I am of course referring to ILB’s and not Edge players.

 

[Mondio]

This is all true, but some positional weaknesses are easier to cover than others.

If you have great LB’s and a bad DL, you’ll still end up with poor LB play.

Basically, it’s not that LB’s aren’t important, they just aren’t as important as other positions.






Note: when I say LB’s, I am of course referring to ILB’s and not Edge players.

I'd agree

 

[gopkrs]

I have read from a couple of posters and now I read in an article that Turner is very valuable because he can play L tackle. I can only ascribe such thinking to wishful hoping. I think Turner is valuable, but really only as a R tackle. And if you have a good R tackle; why would you ever want to move him? I think he can handle very good pass rushers from that side but not from the left. We moved him in the tampa game and instead of having one good tackle (him on the right); we had two bad ones.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Packers fans are brain washed into this kind of thinking and looks where its gotten us. Bad ILB play for a decade.Teams draft ILB/RB/WR early every year.

Ok. Tell me all the great ILBs that lead year defenses.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I have read from a couple of posters and now I read in an article that Turner is very valuable because he can play L tackle. I can only ascribe such thinking to wishful hoping. I think Turner is valuable, but really only as a R tackle. And if you have a good R tackle; why would you ever want to move him? I think he can handle very good pass rushers from that side but not from the left. We moved him in the tampa game and instead of having one good tackle (him on the right); we had two bad ones.

The Packers shouldn't plan on Turner starting at left tackle for an extended period of time but he can fill in adequately in case of injury.

While it's true that he struggled mightily against the Bucs he performed at a decent level in some other games playing at left tackle.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers shouldn't plan on Turner starting at left tackle for an extended period of time but he can fill in adequately in case of injury.

While it's true that he struggled mightily against the Bucs he performed at a decent level in some other games playing at left tackle.

OK...it depends on who the pass rusher is on that side. So when we are in the playoffs; more than likely he needs to stay on the right side. We really need someone who can handle those good pass rushers in the big games. He should just stay on the right side. I think it would be better to have one good tackle on the right and give help to the guy on the left if he needs it. That would have been better than what we did against tampa. Sometimes Turner got beat very badly. I guess Wagner could have gotten beat very badly also. But we could have given him help and probably done OK on the right side. imho. We should play each game like we were going against the best instead of fooling ourselves that we will be good to go because someone did well against inferior players.