Packers and Kenny Clark agree to massive 4 year contract

[Deleted member 6794]

We see the world of professional football through different scopes CaptWimm. We’ll just have to settle on disagreement with each other. I stand firmly on the side of Packer coaches and management on this issue.

That's fine but you might want to remember they were wrong about the wide receiver and tight ends having enough talent entering last season as well.

 

[scotscheese]

Nobody is suggesting the Packers should stockpile #1 receivers but it would be important to have a decent #2 as well as better talent at tight end. With the team currently having neither of it they would be in huge troubles if Adams goes down.

thats not entirely true, when adams was injured last year, we did fine considering the talent level. AR was forced to spread the targets about, and opposing D's didn't know who to cover best as they had no clue who had a higher chance to be targeted. I'm not saying we'd be great, but don't think we'd be as f***ed as suggested

 

[sschind]

Nothing wrong with optimism. I prefer looking at things that way myself. I don't like being negative. The thing is, like others have said, I haven't really seen anything from this group that warrants a real high degree of optimism. Obviously they have shown some promise so I wouldn't say there is no reason to think that one or more won't step up. It may very well happen and I'd go so far as to say one of them probably will maybe more. On the other hand I can't help but think that if the Bears had this exact receiving group a lot of the optimistic Packer fans would be saying it sucks. I think the fact that they are wearing Green and Gold enhances some peoples opinions of them.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

thats not entirely true, when adams was injured last year, we did fine considering the talent level. AR was forced to spread the targets about, and opposing D's didn't know who to cover best as they had no clue who had a higher chance to be targeted. I'm not saying we'd be great, but don't think we'd be as f***ed as suggested

The Packers benefitted from facing three pass defenses ranked 20th or worse in passer rating allowed last season over that stretch with the Chiefs still struggling at that point as well.

The Packers losing Adams this season would be catastrophic.

On the other hand I can't help but think that if the Bears had this exact receiving group a lot of the optimistic Packer fans would be saying it sucks. I think the fact that they are wearing Green and Gold enhances some peoples opinions of them.

That's so true. I have been saying this about the Packers draft this year for quite some time. If the Bears made the moves in the exact same situation a lot of fans defending Gutekunst's selections would be laughing their ***** off at the Bears incompetence.

 

[gbgary]

Clark will count only $22 million against the cap over the next two years though. The Packers might still need to make some moves to fit his contract under the cap though.

nope. 13.8-ish. they structured it so his big hits begin in 2022...almost as if they know there's suddenly going to be a lot of cap space.

https://overthecap.com/player/kenny-clark/4739/

 

[HardRightEdge]

nope. 13.8-ish. they structured it so his big hits begin in 2022...almost as if they know there's suddenly going to be a lot of cap space.

https://overthecap.com/player/kenny-clark/4739/

So, you've advanced your Rodgers-out, Love-in timeline a year? You're getting the hang of it.

Actually, it is more likely they suddenly knew there's going to be a whole lot less cap space in 2021. 2022 is two full seasons in the future. Making any firm predictions about that is a fools errand.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

nope. 13.8-ish. they structured it so his big hits begin in 2022...almost as if they know there's suddenly going to be a lot of cap space.

https://overthecap.com/player/kenny-clark/4739/

In that case the early reports about Clark receiving $37 million over the first two years weren't accurate.

 

[scotscheese]

The Packers benefitted from facing three pass defenses ranked 20th or worse in passer rating allowed last season over that stretch with the Chiefs still struggling at that point as well.

The Packers losing Adams this season would be catastrophic.

the same was said last year when we lost him I'm sure, and look what happened. I don't disagree that it would be a blow to lose Adams at any point of the season as he is our top receiver, but to label it as catastrophic is only opinion and not fact, unless you have a crystal ball. mine are hairy, so no foresight here.

you're in another thread stating how too many are putting too much into reports from training camp, yet you are doing exactly the same here to a completely hypothetical situation

If Adams does get injured a lot of how it affects us will be determined by too many variables for us to judge, severity of injury/upcoming games/other receivers fitness/other receivers productivity/OL giving whatever QB is playing enough protection/GB being on a good day/opp being on a good or bad day

 

[Sunshinepacker]

If Adams does get injured a lot of how it affects us will be determined by too many variables for us to judge, severity of injury/upcoming games/other receivers fitness/other receivers productivity/OL giving whatever QB is playing enough protection/GB being on a good day/opp being on a good or bad day

Wouldn't it be nice if the Packers had a single other receiver that could be counted on to be reliable in that situation? Instead the Packers have a 3rd string QB, backup RB, and who knows what string FB/TE from the draft.

Instead, if Adams misses time, Packers get to hope they're lucky enough to be playing a bad team.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We are now up to $189 mil in 2021 cap cost for 50 players currently under contract for next year. 27 of those guys are at $1 mil or less; most of them won't be around by then.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

the same was said last year when we lost him I'm sure, and look what happened.

Is there any reason you continue to ignore the fact that the Packers got lucky playing bad pass defenses over that stretch???

you're in another thread stating how too many are putting too much into reports from training camp, yet you are doing exactly the same here to a completely hypothetical situation

The huge difference being that I don't base my take on practice reports but on regular season tape.

While Jones stepped up as a receiver when Adams was out last year no other player had more than 12 receptions over the four games. In addition Graham and Allison, who are no longer with the team, combined for 22 catches during that span. They haven't been adequtely replaced either.

 

[scotscheese]

the same was said last year when we lost him I'm sure, and look what happened. I don't disagree that it would be a blow to lose Adams at any point of the season as he is our top receiver, but to label it as catastrophic is only opinion and not fact, unless you have a crystal ball. mine are hairy, so no foresight here.

you're in another thread stating how too many are putting too much into reports from training camp, yet you are doing exactly the same here to a completely hypothetical situation

If Adams does get injured a lot of how it affects us will be determined by too many variables for us to judge, severity of injury/upcoming games/other receivers fitness/other receivers productivity/OL giving whatever QB is playing enough protection/GB being on a good day/opp being on a good or bad day

Is there any reason you continue to ignore the fact that the Packers got lucky playing bad pass defenses over that stretch???

I think i had addressed that situation in my last sentence above, which you obviously ignored. For the record i have not said we'll be great if Adams gets injured. i have only said it MAY not be, in your words, the catastrophe you seem certain will be the case. I pointed out that last season was no where near as bad as most of us here, including myself, thought it would have been.

will you at least admit that the bold sentence above will apply if anyone, not just Adams, gets injured

The huge difference being that I don't base my take on practice reports but on regular season tape.

While Jones stepped up as a receiver when Adams was out last year no other player had more than 12 receptions over the four games. In addition Graham and Allison, who are no longer with the team, combined for 22 catches during that span. They haven't been adequtely replaced either.

neither exactly lit up our passing game, and don't really leave a big hole for anyone to fill so i doubt that will make much of a difference

 

[Mondio]

half the teams in the league aren't that good, so if we lose anybody it's likely we're playing some teams that are very beatable. hardly anybody wins in the playoffs against playoff teams with their stars on the sidelines. That's how it's always been for everybody.

 

[gbgary]

So, you've advanced your Rodgers-out, Love-in timeline a year?

no. to get the $40m cap savings for 2022 rodgers has to be gone after this upcoming season. if they keep him for some reason for 2021 that 2022 savings drops to $17m.

 

[HardRightEdge]

no. to get the $40m cap savings for 2022 rodgers has to be gone after this upcoming season. if they keep him for some reason for 2021 that 2022 savings drops to $17m.

I see. You will be revising your thinking at some point before next April.

By the way, you're off by $1 mil if overthecap is correct, but that's OK. The difference between keeping Rodgers in 2021 and cutting him is $22 mil in additional cap by 2022. Having his services at that cost for one season is a steal.

There's something you might have overlooked. $6.8 mil of that savings is in roster bonus due on the third day of the league year. That was March 21 this year. Good luck making that call by that time. H*ll, at this stage Boyle would be the first guy off the bench if Rodgers was injured. That's what I thought might be the case at draft time and I've heard nothing to change that opinion. He's got mechanical issues with his footwork, for gosh sakes. He's at the stage where his coach is asking him to "trust his instincts". That trust might not be pretty either once he gets there and there won't be much opportunity to find out by next March.

Right now Mr. Matt LaFleur is thanking his lucky stars for having the starting QB he has. Book it. And he'll be thanking them again come next March.

I don't know if you think Love is the second coming of Pat Mahomes (he'll never be close to that), or even the second coming of robo-Goff (which would not get you where you want to go), but right now you have no evidence he won't be the bust that most QBs taken at this spot turn out to be.

 

[PikeBadger]

I see. You will be revising your thinking at some point before next April.

By the way, you're off by $1 mil if overthecap is correct, but that's OK. The difference between keeping Rodgers in 2021 and cutting him is $22 mil in additional cap by 2022. Having his services at that cost for one season is a steal.

There's something you might have overlooked. $6.8 mil of that savings is in roster bonus due on the third day of the league year. That was March 21 this year. Good luck making that call by that time. H*ll, at this stage Boyle would be the first guy off the bench if Rodgers was injured. That's what I thought might be the case at draft time and I've heard nothing to change that opinion. He's got mechanical issues with his footwork, for gosh sakes. He's at the stage where his coach is asking him to "trust his instincts". That trust might not be pretty either once he gets there and there won't be much opportunity to find out by next March.

Right now Mr. Matt LaFleur is thanking his lucky stars for having the starting QB he has. Book it. And he'll be thanking them again come next March.

I don't know if you think Love is the second coming of Pat Mahomes (he'll never be close to that), or even the second coming of robo-Goff (which would not get you where you want to go), but right now you have no evidence he won't be the bust that most QBs taken at this spot turn out to be.

Like most, it will depend on intangibles like maturity of mind, his ability to accept coaching, his overall adaptability to changing circumstances, his courage behind his o-line ET al. The kid has the physical tools to be a top QB in this league.The rest, well, time will tell just like it is with every other NFL player.

all of us here have differing views and degrees of faith in Packer coaches, scouts and management which is clearly reflected in our posts.

I’m pleased with what I’ve heard so far out of Green Bay. These are tough times. My faith and trust has strengthened. I believe we are situated well for another very good season. Why? Because I believe in this organization.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Like most, it will depend on intangibles like maturity of mind, his ability to accept coaching, his overall adaptability to changing circumstances, his courage behind his o-line ET al. The kid has the physical tools to be a top QB in this league.The rest, well, time will tell just like it is with every other NFL player.

all of us here have differing views and degrees of faith in Packer coaches, scouts and management which is clearly reflected in our posts.

I’m pleased with what I’ve heard so far out of Green Bay. These are tough times. My faith and trust has strengthened. I believe we are situated well for another very good season. Why? Because I believe in this organization.

There's another factor. Simply how the guy is wired for the NFL game.

Jordon Love could be the the next franchise QB or a journeyman or total bust. History is littered with many more first rounders in the last two categories then the first. But that wasn't my primary point. gbgary categorically states Love will replace Rodgers by, one presumes, next April to capture all of the cap savings. My primary point is that neither Gutekunst, LaFleur, me, you, gbgary, nor the lamp post are likely to have much of an idea of who Love really is by next April.

Rodgers could get injured and they decide to go with Love or he gets several starts at the end of the year if the team is out of the playoffs and he look awfully good or awfully bad. Anything could happen.

But to assume categorically, whether or not Love has the opportunity to show something, that he'll be the guy by next April is foolish. Nobody is going to be turning the page that blindly. My categorical statement of "no way" is just a way of emphasizing how long the odds really are.

This is about as narrow as I can make it. There are other broader questions marks we can lay on top, some of which I've touched on in the past.

 

[PikeBadger]

There's another factor. Simply how the guy is wired for the NFL game.

Jordon Love could be the the next franchise QB or a journeyman or total bust. History is littered with many more first rounders in the last two categories then the first. But that wasn't my primary point. gbgary categorically states Love will replace Rodgers by, one presumes, next April to capture all of the cap savings. My primary point is that neither Gutekunst, LaFleur, me, you, gbgary, nor the lamp post are likely to have much of an idea of who Love really is by next April.

Rodgers could get injured and they decide to go with Love or he gets several starts at the end of the year if the team is out of the playoffs and he look awfully good. Anything could happen.

But to assume categorically, whether or not Love has the opportunity to show something, that he'll be the guy by next April is foolish. Nobody is going to be turning the page that blindly. My categorical statement of "no way" is just a way of emphasizing how long the odds really are.

This is about as narrow as I can make it. There are other broader questions marks we can lay on top, some of which I've touched on.

I agree that the Packers haven’t determined a specific timetable for Love to take over as starting QB. I personally think it’s unlikely he will be ready for that before the beginning of the 23 season. Ready as in immediately and reasonably successful.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree that the Packers haven’t determined a specific timetable for Love to take over as starting QB. I personally think it’s unlikely he will be ready for that before the beginning of the 23 season. Ready as in immediately and reasonably successful.

LaFleur's comments sure sound like he's mulit-year project. Hand holding and horse whispering ends in about a week and weekly game planning begins. In a rare moment of coaching candor, Bruce Ariens, a guy with a reputation for working with QBs, stated that QB's "don't learn anything carrying a clipboard."

 

[PikeBadger]

LaFleur's comments sure sound like he's mulit-year project. Hand holding and horse whispering ends in about a week and weekly game planning begins. In a rare moment of coaching candor, Bruce Ariens, a guy with a reputation for working with QBs, stated that QB's "don't learn anything carrying a clipboard."

That means that Ariens thinks that Rodgers and Brunell didn’t learn anything from Favre. One man’s opinion I guess. I think Rodgers probably disagrees with Ariens. Don’t know about Brunell. I think it likely depends on how much you want to learn when you’re not playing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That means that Ariens thinks that Rodgers and Brunell didn’t learn anything from Favre. One man’s opinion I guess. I think Rodgers probably disagrees with Ariens. Don’t know about Brunell. I think it likely depends on how much you want to learn when you’re not playing.

I wouldn't assume what Rodgers might have learned from Favre. Recent happy talk between the two presents quite a different picture than one would have gleaned back in the day. "Chilly" is one word that describes that relationship at the time. Either time heals all wounds or they both see nobody looks good in rehasing old tensions.

Ariens was probably overstating the case for emphasis as was I. Those who talk like a QB can be developed in a laboratory, so to speak, understate the case.

The fact of the matter is critical learning comes from doing, on the football field or wherever. The context was that if Ariens was choosing between a healthy Tagovailoa and Fitzpatrick as his starter this season he'd go with Tua. Might as well get on with it sooner rather than later is the thought I would assume. What happens before is just to get a guy sufficiently NFL ready to just get on the field. That kinda makes sense on its face. The more interesting part might be why he was opining about somebody else's football team.

Jordan is not Tua, Fitzpatrick is not Rodgers, and Miami doesn't have a lot to lose in an on-going total rebuild.

Rodgers commented recently that he's more comfortable now with the scheme and has a more complete grasp of the playbook. Now, you can say whatever you want about Rodgers but one thing is certain--he's football smart as a whip and has a tremendous memory for the details of the game situations along with 12 years of HOF credentials under his belt. Where do you think Jordan Love will be a year from now from that scheme and playbook perspective?

Something quite drastic would have to happen to turn the page in 2021. There would have to be nothing to lose. That's possible I suppose if unlikely. Assuming it will happen regardless of what transpires this year is just dumb. When the page is turned it might not even be Love for the next chapter and it might not even be 2022. Or 2023.

 

[gopkrs]

It may not be Love in the future and Rodgers may stick longer than anyone thinks. What bothers me is Love's apparent accuracy problems with the fastball though having touch is nice. But it is still way too early. And I have yet to actually see anything. I don't care about what he did or did not do in college at this point. And don't care if he beats out Boyle either. It is his time on the bench. And I really don't care what Arians says. Gotta let it play out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

will you at least admit that the bold sentence above will apply if anyone, not just Adams, gets injured.

Well, the sentence applies to every team in the league every single week, it's a trivial statement though.

neither exactly lit up our passing game, and don't really leave a big hole for anyone to fill so i doubt that will make much of a difference

I agree, but the problem is that the Packers rely on receivers and tight ends to make significant contributions who weren't even able to move past players on the depth chart everyone agrees weren't that productive to begin with.

That doesn't seem to be a sound plan.

half the teams in the league aren't that good, so if we lose anybody it's likely we're playing some teams that are very beatable.

True, if the Packers end up not being as lucky as last season with injuries or the schedule they face when having significant ones that could be the difference between making it to the playoffs or not.

Like most, it will depend on intangibles like maturity of mind, his ability to accept coaching, his overall adaptability to changing circumstances, his courage behind his o-line ET al. The kid has the physical tools to be a top QB in this league.The rest, well, time will tell just like it is with every other NFL player.

I'm mostly worried about Love's decision making, something that might be tough to coach.

I agree that the Packers haven’t determined a specific timetable for Love to take over as starting QB. I personally think it’s unlikely he will be ready for that before the beginning of the 23 season. Ready as in immediately and reasonably successful.

With teams trying to benefit from having a starting quarterback on a rookie deal trading up in the first round to select Love should be considered a waste of a pick if he sits on the bnch for three seasons.

The fact of the matter is critical learning comes from doing, on the football field or wherever. The context was that if Ariens was choosing between a healthy Tagovailoa and Fitzpatrick as his starter this season he'd go with Tua. Might as well get on with it sooner rather than later is the thought I would assume.

Hey HRE, is there anything I can do to help you realize that Arians still isn't the head coach of the Dolphins for good???

It may not be Love in the future and Rodgers may stick longer than anyone thinks.

That's why Gutekunst shouldn't have used the team's first rounder on Love in the first place.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Hey HRE, is there anything I can do to help you realize that Arians still isn't the head coach of the Dolphins for good???

Hey Cap'n, You'll see I noted that this time if you read closer.

 

[gopkrs]

That's why Gutekunst shouldn't have used the team's first rounder on Love in the first place.

Disagree with this. While you can make predictions on what to expect; we will have to wait to see if Love pans out or not. If he does not play at all on his rookie contract because Rodgers plays so well; that is a good thing imho. We just don't know how long Rodgers can keep it up and we don't know if Love will end up being the next Packer's QB.